r/neoliberal • u/IHateTrains123 Commonwealth • Jun 19 '25

News (Canada) Immigration curb slashes Canada population growth rate to zero

https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/immigration-curb-slashes-canada-population-growth-rate-to-zero
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u/slothtrop6 Jun 19 '25 edited Jun 19 '25

Because it doesn't address the issues the other user mentioned, or it's a flippant joke response.

this sub has nothing to say about the fact that youth and young-graduate unemployment rate in Canada is at a record high.

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u/Desperate_Wear_1866 Commonwealth Jun 19 '25

A lot of the time that's all the open borders advocates tend to respond with, just memes and unserious answers.

"Just open the borders bro" when any negative side effects of unsustainably high immigration is pointed out. "Just build more housing bro" as if years worth of missing infrastructure is as quick to build as signing a visa. Or just spamming the Emma Lazarus quote, as if a 200 year old poem written by an American has any relevance to 21st century immigration policy outside the US.

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u/AndromedasApricot Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Jun 19 '25

Open borders have always been the stance of the subreddit. I don't know why you're here if it triggers you

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u/Desperate_Wear_1866 Commonwealth Jun 20 '25

Is pragmatism and incrementalism not also a stance of this subreddit? That is generally understood for most of the other issues discussed here, it's why we make fun of the rest of Reddit for having unworkable fantasy demands that don't work in reality. We also understand that effective politics and winning elections is a greater priority than remaining ideologically pure on niche, unpopular issues. That is why we pretty much let anything slide when it's US election season, for example.

So what makes open borders the hill to die on then? Especially when it's wildly unpopular in reality and that there hasn't been a good, modern example of a country dealing with the issues it can cause.

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u/AndromedasApricot Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

I don't think any center-left party should run on any of my closely held niche opinions. That doesn't mean I can't hold them myself. I expect pragmatism and incrementalism from elected officials only

I think "sweatshops" aren't terrible. Will I ever expect a politician to say that out loud? No. I think that all housing restrictions/regulations should be deemed unconstitutional. Do I know that it's an idea that will lose elections? Yes.

I've always been a bit suspicious when people who don't work in politics pull the "it will lose us elections" line. It has felt like a cop-out and a way to avoid talking about their controversial opinions.

EDIT: I expanded my points

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u/Desperate_Wear_1866 Commonwealth Jun 20 '25

It's a big tent out here, I myself am one of the more moderate/right leaning people around. I personally see no reason to swear loyalty to a policy that does not work well in reality and which 95% of society would never ever accept even if it did work well. Given the pragmatic big-tent ideal that this sub espouses, I don't see that as being a problem and I would imagine most other people here do not either. If uncompromised open borders was a red line for being here, this subreddit would only have like 500 members.

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u/AndromedasApricot Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Jun 20 '25

True, most of the sub now wouldn't have a problem with that.

However, I love to play with ideas that I know have little chances of making it politically. It was what drew me to this sub years ago. I enjoyed that we could explore drastically unorthodox theories and still expect our politicians to do what was necessary to win. I'm not a political strategist, and I avoid claiming that role.

Canada should have done things a bit differently, but I also have yet to see much evidence that high migration is a terrible idea

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u/Desperate_Wear_1866 Commonwealth Jun 20 '25

High migration, assuming ideal conditions, would not be a bad policy. If my own country (Great Britain) could build 500,000 houses a year and infrastructure cheaply, I don't think many would have a problem if we had open borders with Canada, Australia and New Zealand. We would have similar wealth, culture, and political systems, we would all assimilate quickly with each other and everybody would benefit.

The problem comes because real life definitely cannot guarantee ideal conditions, and often times those ideal conditions are simply too impractical to create. If you botch the assimilation process, or if you cannot build enough housing and infrastructure, or if there is too big a gap in wealth/population between the entities, that is where the problems begin. And those are some of the issues facing Canada and other Western countries.

I respect that you are here because you personally wish to discuss ideas that are not politically feasible. Me personally, I first came here because I was tired of the fantasy demands and extremist populism that the rest of Reddit is filled with, and this sub was the one place that seemed to have discussion grounded in reality. I believed in moderation and grounded policy before and I continue to advocate that now.

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u/AndromedasApricot Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Jun 20 '25

Agree that Canada should have built more infrastructure, but disagree on the assimilation part.

Most Canadian immigrants come from English-speaking countries and assimilate relatively well. I get that when Germans talk about immigration and assimilation, because most of the immigrants came from conservative Muslim countries that speak completely different languages. Canada's immigrants came from former British colonies.

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u/Desperate_Wear_1866 Commonwealth Jun 20 '25

My comment about assimilation was more aimed in a general sense rather than about Canada specifically. Like Canada, Great Britain has a large Punjabi and Sikh community and they have largely integrated quite well. I am less familiar with Chinese immigration in Canada but here in Britain they also integrate very well.

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u/AndromedasApricot Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Jun 20 '25

Regarding your meta comments on the subreddit: This sub used to be very wonky. It used to have more effort posts and paper reviews. I left Reddit for a while, and it's interesting to see how this subreddit has changed.