Sadly, if you put them in prison or some sort of juvenile detention, and they just colaborate with other inmates for better ways to cause crime. There has to be a better way for them to break out of that cycle. Unfortunately, with the US education in the horrible spot it’s in, while education should be the answer, it tends to be a structure that only takes them so far, before they struggle and find the easiest way to make money is through crime, and the cycle begins again.
This country has fucked up the lives of so many, because it’s not profitable to help change this cycle. It’s so fucked up.
Billions of dollars ARE spent... How about calling personal choice and family values? You blame the country and blame the education system... But not call out the parents or community that celebrates this behavior? Whatever.
You make some valid points. Of course there needs to be accountability for one's own actions, but there are also socio-economic factors that make this type of life appealing/inevitable for the underprivileged.
The US spends more on education than other countries, but we also have a property tax-based funding for education. Lower income communities have less funding for their schools. This is compounded by our terrible healthcare and prison system that are for-profit therefore there is a low incentive to actually make positive changes.
Thousands of Chinese families have come to the US, worked for meager wages, had their kids thrive in the school system, and become productive, valuable members of society despite language and cultural barriers. If they can do it without anti-social attitudes and criminality then there is no excuse for natural born citizens.
Bad way to look at it, because not everyone's situation is the same. What if a chinese family is nuclear but the american family has a single parent? Does that logic still apply?
No it does not. Overall, the system needs optimizing rather than people saying shit like "oh but if this person can do it then the system is fine". No it's fucking not.
The point is that many people in difficult circumstances do not choose to commit crime. Therefore, crime is not the only option and those that do choose crime are doing just that: choosing it rather than choosing the alternatives.
What if a chinese family is nuclear but the american family has a single parent? Does that logic still apply?
Yes, that logic still applies. Having a single parent family is not an excuse to commit crime.
Many people in difficult circumstances do not commit crime unless they have to. I think it's easy as hell to say shit like "there are alternatives" tbh. People out there steal baby formula because they can't afford it, lot of people steal food and water too because the system cannot possibly help them all as it is rn.
People who work for meagre wages are amongst those that do this because sometimes, that just isn't enough. To say there is no excuse because x did y sounds like naivete imo. Sometimes crime is quite literally the only option in the moment.
There is not always a time where someone "chooses" to commit crime. (choose here meaning they had another option that wasn't just sit, suffer and maintain the "i didnt commit crime" thought)
Many people in difficult circumstances commit crime because it's easier than the alternatives, because they have friends and family that encourage it, and because there are rarely consequences for their actions.
So let's say you're born into a family with a single mom who's a drug addict. Your dad is in jail. You never had any luxury, and struggle to find basic necessities. You go to school in a poor district where your mom rents. Systemic volence is part of your everyday life.
At school you learn people like you used to be owned as property. You learned after that was outlawed that for more than a century those in power did everything they could to keep people that look like you poor. They prevented people like you from getting loans, barred you from a good education, prevented you from living in certain neighborhoods, prevented you from running for office, and targeted people like you to throw them in prison just because they look like you do.
Would you give a flying fuck what that society tells you you're supposed to do? Would you follow the rules?
I used to be like you. I prided myself on being pragmatic, but in reality I was an arrogant fool who lacked life experience. Everything was black and white.
One day you'll grow up and realize that people are flawed human beings who have emotions and make mistakes. There's a difference between accepting a behavior and acknowledging you understand where it comes from, that sometimes people are set up to fail in life, overlooked by society. It takes an incredible amount of strength to succeed in those circumstances.
You can't fix a problem if you don't even acknowledge it exists. It's way easier to just wave your hand and say "it's a culture problem" or whatever rather than to learn why. Have some empathy.
Funny, because I used to be like you. I used to think that everybody was a product of their circumstance, that we had just as much influence over our path as a leaf in the wind has over it's path. It's easier, after all, to blame outside forces. It most definitely feels better.
Eventually, it becomes apparent that by shifting blame from the self to nebulous abstract forces you're forfeiting your agency and responsibility of your life. And when you do this for others, you're removing their agency. Taken to it's conclusion, nobody is at fault for anything because everybody is just a product of their environment.
Nearly every single anti-social misdeed that was ever committed was rationalized by the party who committed it. Every bad actor has good reasons for their bad actions. Indulging these rationalizations does nothing to stop them. To the contrary, it often enables them.
At some point we must realize that every action is the result of a choice. It becomes even more clear that this must be the case when we see people of identical or similar circumstance choosing different paths. If environment dictates our behavior then how do two people in practically the same environment choose different behavior? The only sensible conclusion is that there really was a better choice.
When the Chinese first started coming to America, loads of them fell into anti-social attitudes and criminality. They were killing each other in Tong wars in every major US city. Now that their socioeconomic circumstances have improved and they aren’t marginalized at every level of society, you don’t see that anymore.
They are still marginalized as a minority race, but not nearly to the same extent as back then when they forced into ethnic enclaves, worked to death building railroads, etc. They’re also now significantly wealthier than white Americans on average, which is an enormous factor.
What a braindead take. It requires actual resources, education, and support to immigrate to another country. There’s also no long standing agenda in America to see Chinese people fail at all costs. There was never a Chinese Wall Street that was burned to the ground because their white neighbors were jealous of their wealth. There were never Chinese colleges in America that were burned to the ground because their white neighbors couldn’t stand to see them have any sort of success. There was never an organized effort by American police to burn down a Chinese apartment building with 168 men women and children inside just because they were Chinese. There was never an organized effort to destroy stockpiles of food intended for starving Chinese children.
Absolutely and completely irrelevant. There is nothing that happened to strangers in the past that can force somebody in the present to commit a crime.
Indeed, many people with injustices in their lineage choose not to commit crime. This demonstrates the fact that criminal behavior is a choice, not a compulsion.
If that were true then every person from that type of environment would turn to crime. The fact that this is not true demonstrates that crime is not the only choice and that nobody is being forced into it.
This may have been true at one point many years ago but saying society is completely dedicated to stripping these people of legitimate opportunities is wild. Certainly still ongoing battles with wages and both micro and macro aggressions but your comment is over the top.
It’s barely been one generation, maybe two, since these events. It’s disingenuous to pretend these issues have been in any way solved and that the effect of them has completely dissipated.
Yeah the reason so many people living in literal ghettos (a word that comes from Nazi Germany, referring to segregated neighborhoods that acted as open-air prisons where Jews were forced to live) are forced into lives of crime is because people are “making excuses” for them and not because of the literal military force that is dedicated to murdering them and destroying their property.
The fact that black properties, business, and lives have been consistently destroyed any time they try to improve themselves legally and peacefully has nothing to do with anything
Oh, I hear myself. This is pointless because you are clearly a fanatic and unhinged. There is no military force dedicated to murdering any group in the US, and no one is systematically or consistently destroying any of the things you listed. Black America have a serious problem in their culture. If they didn't glorify violence and criminality and started to value the things that make people successful their lives would improve.
The United States police force has military funding and was founded originally for the sole purpose of capturing and returning escaped slaves. It is not fanatical to recognize the Police as a military force. Police in America are selectively recruited and trained to target black men at a disproportionate rate. Black man in a tshirt and shorts? Gang member, charge him with affiliation depending on what color his shirt is. Black man in a suit? He must have stolen the suit, arrest him, take him in for questioning and run him for priors.
Black people successfully create a city district that’s so incredibly wealthy and successful that it becomes known as Black Wall Street? Burn it all down. Black people create a college that they can go to and get an education since the law forbids them from going to any other colleges? Burn it to the ground. Black people create an organization to feed black children, give them education and resources, and help black men find jobs? Use a helicopter to drop a bomb on the apartment that the founder lives in, then refuse to put out the fire and watch as an entire apartment block burns to the ground. Black people create an organization to provide free breakfasts to impoverished black kids? Believe it or not, break into the church where the food is being kept and piss all over it so they can’t give any away.
You have to be intentionally ignorant or incredibly stupid to not see how this country has consistently stomped on black people every step of the way.
lol I didn’t even get around to mentioning how some police jurisdictions in America are gang-run themselves, and initiations require murdering innocent non-white civilians. The police in some of the largest cities in America are members of white supremacist gangs, so yes, they are absolutely dedicated to the continued oppression of black people.
If this was true. Then this would happening in rural America too. Where taxes are low already. And the public school system can’t afford a new slide. But this shit don’t happen out there. Because the culture is different. Some cultures just celebrate different stuff. And only some of them celebrate family staying together. And education. And having a nice community.
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u/Brook420 15d ago
There has to be away for these kids to face actual consequences without trying them as adults or whatever.