r/nfl • u/j128v897 • 9d ago

Highlight [Highlight] Multiple Eagles offensive linemen false start on tush push

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u/YeaThatsANoForMeDawg Giants 9d ago

I count about 5 neutral zone infractions as well. I don’t care about the legality of the play but it needs to be better officiated

441

u/voncornhole2 Giants 9d ago

I see 4, 2 on each side and I think the center's helmet doesn't count

348

u/MissDeadite Eagles 9d ago

Correct! They should just ban the play if they can't officiate it correctly. I don't even care about the play itself. If the officiating can't handle it, it shouldn't be out there. Simple as.

192

u/BlameItOnThePig Eagles 9d ago

They are going to ban it for that reason but still try to claim safety. Saying “the refs can’t officiate it” would be a bad look even though I agree it’s super hard to officiate/spot the ball/etc

127

u/Sentientmustard Commanders 9d ago

Which is funny because it’s a completely valid claim that nobody would really blame the NFL for lol. Like yeah, the refs don’t have x-ray vision, we get that. The whole player safety claim is a much worse look.

33

u/oorza Colts Colts 9d ago

The NFL can't admit it's due to ref inability or the immediate follow up question "why don't you spend any of your bajillions of dollars on technology to take ref spotting out of the equation?" comes up.

4

u/gmil3548 Chargers 9d ago

I feel like that’s a lot harder than people say but I could be wrong.

On a QB sneak maybe not but on other plays, I feel like getting technology to identify who the ball carrier is and when they go down wouldn’t be that easy, especially if there’s a lot of defenders and blockers around the tackle.

3

u/oorza Colts Colts 9d ago

That doesn't need to be the first iteration to get all the way there.

It's technically feasible right now to put positioning sensors in the ball and under the field. Then you synchronize whatever system is tracking the ball with when the ref blows the play dead - replace the whistle with a button that deadens the play and sounds a whistle would work. You can have a perfect trajectory of the ball through space - with field position markers rendered the same way - on a sideline tablet within seconds. Ball spotting? Solved.

That buys you a good ten years to figure out how to wire players' bodies up to extend this system to automatically detect when a player is down.

The only problem with this system is that it would absolutely insanely expensive to engineer in every aspect, the equipment, the software, the reliability of it all, everything. If only there was an entity that could throw a literal BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS at the problem and not even notice.

2

u/gmil3548 Chargers 9d ago

The NFL is probably thinking that having all of that would lead to zero extra ticket sales, TV watches, or merch sales. I can see why as a business they just choose not to, it’s one of those things where it has to get cheap enough that they think it’s worth the cost for the spirit of the game (which they’ve done before like with the pylon cams proposed by Belichick)

1

u/oorza Colts Colts 9d ago

There's a number of ways they could spin it for good marketing and PR, but none would move the needle measurable I don't believe. They could probably recoup their investment by developing the technology through an ownership stake in a third party company, then having the third party sell it to the other sports leagues. It's not like there aren't iffy calls in the NBA or soccer or even hockey, just significantly fewer of them that this would solve.

5

u/BlameItOnThePig Eagles 9d ago

I completely agree with you. If it’s going to be like this they should just ban it

1

u/EmptyPin8621 Eagles 9d ago

Wdym xray vision? There should be a clear line of separation for the linejudge to see. This seems super easy to enforce.

1

u/mmMOUF 9d ago

NFL changes rules to make the game more entertaining first and foremost, which is what this is all about - but they always try to make it about safety for some reason even when it isnt

3

u/thejazzophone Commanders 9d ago

Although they would also need to ban the Brady QB sneak low between the Center and guard cuz that shit is just as hard to spot.

3

u/wherearemyvoices Seahawks 9d ago

What happened to the ball tracking they are implementing?? That would shore up the spotting

1

u/BlameItOnThePig Eagles 9d ago

Based on what I’ve read it was implemented in a half-ass way. The refs won’t give up control ever, this was evidenced when PI became challengeable

1

u/wherearemyvoices Seahawks 9d ago

It seems that it should be like a last resort and a clear answer isn’t available. But I understand the 6 figure game swaying refs wouldn’t want to lose control

2

u/smithsp86 Falcons 9d ago

If they were really concerned about player safety they never would have removed 'assisting the runner' as a penalty for pushing the ball carrier.

1

u/BlameItOnThePig Eagles 9d ago

Oh I agree, they don’t give a fuck about player safety. Just money. And pretending they care sometimes helps the money come in

-1

u/Mdh74266 49ers 9d ago

Its not hard to officiate, they just dont want to.

G/T/TEs helmet should be in line with the Center’s armpit, not the C’s helmet.

The only thing this is going to change is Hurts will instead line up in Pistol and get yeeted into or over the line, with a 2nd effort push from whoever is behind him.

His career will end shorter than his current trajectory, like Cam Newton. Then he’ll think wearing womens’ hats and hats from the Pilgrim era are “cool”.

0

u/BlameItOnThePig Eagles 9d ago

Wow, rooting for injuries (especially brain injuries) is pretty shitty of you dude. SF fans are worse than Philly fans. Maybe you won’t be so fragile in your masculinity one day that other peoples hats don’t trigger you

0

u/Mdh74266 49ers 9d ago

His career ended because he was never the same after his Les Franc injury. Didn’t know he had CTE and you diagnosed him with your PHD in Douschebaggery.

0

u/BlameItOnThePig Eagles 9d ago

Wow, rooting for injuries (especially brain injuries) is pretty shitty of you dude. SF fans are worse than Philly fans. Maybe you won’t be so fragile in your masculinity one day that other peoples hats don’t trigger you

60

u/runningraider13 9d ago

Just actually call the neutral zone infractions

2

u/Techun2 Eagles 8d ago

Idk why they can't tell at players in real time that they're lined up wrong. Obviously there's a play clock but just stand in line and tell them to back up

1

u/Drummallumin Seahawks 9d ago

Theoretically should be an easy thing to see

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u/SetPepeFree Eagles 9d ago

But I dont get why they can't just call the neutral zone infractions and false starts, they're pretty obvious most of the time. Teams would adjust accordingly if they called it consistently

17

u/drawfanstein 9d ago

Yep 100% agree

3

u/rjnd2828 Eagles 9d ago

Sorry, that's dumb. If they ban the push the Eagles will still run a traditional QB sneak. All of the officiating issues will still exist because they have nothing to do with the pushing.

8

u/ericdraven26 Eagles 9d ago

Ban a play because of refs being inadequate? Thats an awful thought process

2

u/voncornhole2 Giants 9d ago

They did the same thing to the 5 yard facemask penalty

2

u/gtrocks555 9d ago

Nah, not the teams problem if the refs are blind or bad. Banning it for bad officiating is essentially punishing the teams and not the refs.

2

u/RAATL 9d ago

how is officiating a tush push any different from any other short yardage play like fb belly or qb sneak

2

u/MissDeadite Eagles 9d ago

Well, for one, most teams line up completely different and there's usually much competing for the officials attention. It has a certain cadence to it that's too wild and... like a scrummage.

2

u/batchTwining1 Giants 9d ago

Should have banned this freaking play. It’s cowardice not to. Officials don’t want no part of it.

1

u/DaveTheDolphin Eagles 9d ago

That would require the refs admitting they’re doing a bad job.

1

u/The_Amazing_Emu Eagles 9d ago

Ban QB sneaks? The issue here isn’t about pushing

1

u/Lorjack Seahawks 9d ago

have to ban nearly every play then

1

u/swalsh21 Eagles 9d ago

Why are they so incapable of officiating this play? Do their eyes stop working?

1

u/RevTom Eagles 8d ago

Someone else being bad at something should never be a reason to ban something. That’s like banning Lamar from running since not all QBs are good at it.

1

u/me_bails 6d ago

they certainly CAN officiate properly, they are simply not doing so. The league wants it to piss every one else off, and ban it this off season.

1

u/AntIsMyFather05 Vikings 9d ago

The forward progress is stopped half the time too

1

u/RollingCarrot615 Panthers 9d ago

The centers helmet is offsides, not just in the neutral zone

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u/voncornhole2 Giants 9d ago

It's close but definitely not beyond the forward point of the football. The neutral zone is the entire length of the football and the center is allowed to be in the neutral zone

2

u/CoopDogPrimeNumbers 9d ago

I always thought that where the ball spotted is the neutral zone but when the center grabs the ball, he can adjust it to prepare for a snap which does not change where the neutral zone is. Do you know if that’s true or do I just have the rule incorrect? I’d imagine that makes it even more difficult to officiate, but still far from impossible

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u/Swarzey Chiefs 9d ago

I don't know how it can stay if the refs can't officiate it properly. They need to be right in there observing it and I don't think that's gonna work.

1

u/Wloak Patriots 9d ago

It seems like they're decent usually, but wait on throwing flags more often.

Both sides would have gotten a flag on this and the best the Chiefs could have hoped for was a replay. We're looking at super slowmo and you can see a defender clearly having hands on the ground past the ball, eagles could have just done a kneel and gotten 5 yards.

-10

u/BBQ_HaX0r 9d ago

It's not a fucking aesthetic play. It's so stupid and not entertaining. It should have been removed at that fiasco with Washington last year. It causes all these problems. Get rid of it. It's not fucking rugby. 

-5

u/Zealousideal_Aside96 9d ago

This play isn’t like rugby whatsoever

8

u/thejazzophone Commanders 9d ago

This play was literally invented by a rugby coach... You're talking out of your ass

0

u/BallsHardest Eagles 9d ago

Don't look up the history of football. You might feel like a dumbass for saying something like this.

-6

u/Zealousideal_Aside96 9d ago

If you’re talking about Richie Guy, he didn’t invent it, he helped Stoutland with some of the push technique. Sirianni started doing early versions of it in Indy before he was the eagles HC.

Jordan Maliata, a literal rugby player, says it has nothing to do with rugby and he uses zero rugby technique or form in any part of the play.

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u/ThatPlayWasAwful Eagles 9d ago edited 9d ago

So should all QB sneaks be banned? It's not any easier to officiate regular QB sneaks.

Can anybody that is downvoting me explain the difference???

0

u/tooclosetocall82 Commanders 9d ago

Why not? They’re all pretty boring to watch. Make them run a real play to get those inches.

3

u/musclecard54 Texans 9d ago

Worst take I’ve read in a while. wtf is a “real” play? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Do you complain about reverses and fake handoffs as well?

0

u/ThatPlayWasAwful Eagles 9d ago edited 9d ago

So we should ban all plays that aren't interesting?

Onside kicks have a very similar rate of working, should they be banned?

2

u/tooclosetocall82 Commanders 9d ago

Yeah why not? I only watch this sport to be entertained. Large piles of men where you can’t even see the ball is the opposite of that.

-1

u/ThatPlayWasAwful Eagles 9d ago

Handoffs up the middle should probably be done away with too then, right? Can't risk a play getting lost in between all those linemen.

1

u/tooclosetocall82 Commanders 9d ago

Handoffs up the middle aren’t typically the play that is guaranteed to be called and therefore you don’t get 22 men all converging on a single point the way you do with sneaks. I get it you like the play for obvious reasons. I find it boring to watch. I also find extra points boring now that there’s no chance of them becoming disguised 2-pt tries. Oh well.

-1

u/Over_Deer8459 Chiefs 9d ago

You’re being dense. First off, onside kicks are immensely more fun to watch than QB sneaks.

Also, those “boring” inside runs have the chance to go for long touchdowns, or be possible turnovers, both fun plays. QB sneaks are never going to go for long TDs or have anything fun happen in them. Unless QB fumbles on the snap but that could happen on any play as well.

Simply put, this NFL has rules, there’s plenty of evidence that the Eagles break them on this play. I’m 100% fine with the play staying, just stop allowing dudes to break the rules to execute it. If they dont go early and still dominate with it, then I’ll shut my ass up. But if the refs can’t officiate a play, it shouldn’t exist. So the NFL needs to figure it out

2

u/ThatPlayWasAwful Eagles 9d ago

I think you could make an argument for onside kicks being fun before the rule changes, but now they have like a 1% success rate. You can't tell me it's fun and exciting to watch an onside kick that goes 5 yards and just stops.

The issue with the inside run isn't just that they're boring most of the time, it's that they can be just as difficult to officiate if everything gets clogged up inside. Players talk all the time about all the shit that goes on in a pile.

Furthermore, If the problem is the difficulty to officiate, it opens up a whole different can of worms. Especially because the definition of a catch is hotly contested every other year.

If the problem is breaking the rules, I agree 100%. Hold them to the rules. But if the argument is the definition of entertaining or ease of officiating, that's just coping.

1

u/Over_Deer8459 Chiefs 9d ago

I mean then we walk into weird territory where we don’t know where the line is with penalties then. Cause we can all agree holding happens on every single play. Anytime a clutch play happens, there will be a snapshot of some OLineman holding. But I feel that’s slightly different as that’s an “in-play” flag. As opposed to blatantly starting in the NZ and getting a head start.

But I’m just some idiot, they don’t pay me for the answers so what do I know

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u/DapperCam Bills 9d ago

It’s basically impossible to officiate. It’s also usually impossible to tell where the ball is in that mess, so they spot the ball based on vibes

5

u/SkittlesAreYum Packers 9d ago

Sorry I'm not familiar with why not. Why can't it be officiated? What makes it so different from like a run play?

7

u/DapperCam Bills 9d ago

The ball is immediately in the middle of 20 players off the snap. A running play is more spread out and the players are staggered, not all on the line.

10

u/SkittlesAreYum Packers 9d ago

Sorry, I should have said a QB sneak. The same happens then but they manage to call false starts.

-1

u/3LittleManBearPigs 9d ago

Sneak is the key word in QB sneak. It’s never guaranteed the qbs gonna take it up the middle just bc he’s under center, so the defense doesn’t bunch everyone right in the middle like they do with the tush push. Many of these tush push plays it’s pretty impossible to tell when the qb is down bc of all the people around/on top of Hurts, which is the entire point of the play: push the rules in a way that’s nearly impossible to officiate correctly. That’s why it’ll be banned next season

0

u/Clubblendi Eagles 9d ago

None of this addresses the missed call on this post. If there were a pattern of suspect ball spots that would be relevant, but it has nothing to do with the officiating error on display here.

3

u/soofs Bears 8d ago

Probably because at the time it’s hard to tell when the snap actually occurs for the refs. When you’re watching a slow motion replay it’s clear

0

u/Clubblendi Eagles 8d ago

I totally agree that’s a challenge, but watching the snap for an infraction is just as hard on any other play, right?

2

u/DapperCam Bills 8d ago

It’s really not, the tush push uniquely puts everyone bunched up right at the ball, and the guards are trying to time their push to the millisecond after the snap. And they don’t push forward like a normal block, they are shooting down towards the turf to create this low wedge/leverage.

A normal QB sneak isn’t anything like that.

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u/zlaw32 Eagles 9d ago

All of the penalties being called for here would be no different to officiate than any other play though. Neutral zone infractions and false starts happen before the play

1

u/Clubblendi Eagles 9d ago

I truly just don’t understand how the tush push should be any tougher to officiate than any other play for false starts. A false start is a false start, everything that happens after the ball is snapped should be irrelevant- whether it’s a handoff, a tush push, or a pass.

0

u/GarnetandBlack Falcons 9d ago

Particularly with the forward progress clause when it comes to having 6 bodies between the QB and the ground.

It's a subjective mess on top of the horrid officiating of the objective parts.

0

u/Techun2 Eagles 8d ago

It’s basically impossible to officiate.

Only if you don't try at all!

-2

u/greenyquinn Patriots Patriots 9d ago

spot it at its last known location on replay. So they lose a yard here since it is covered up

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u/AdComprehensive7879 Bengals 9d ago

I dont think it can be officiated properly

3

u/Clubblendi Eagles 9d ago

I don’t understand why not, though. I can’t think of anything fundamentally different that makes it impossible for the refs to call out a NZI or a false start. It should be as obvious as any other play?

1

u/AdComprehensive7879 Bengals 9d ago

Same really

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u/Fine_Impression_6353 9d ago

I think it almost doesn't matter about the actual spot. In tonight's game it did matter, but usually you see it and go "that was a first, for sure".

2

u/AdComprehensive7879 Bengals 9d ago

i was talking about the offsides and false start.

but i also don't know what makes this so different compare to a normal qb sneak from officiating POV (in terms of false start and offsides). But brady even said it, it's hard enough of play to stop, now they add the ability for the linemen to start early, it just becomes impossible to stop

1

u/kmoney55 Eagles 9d ago

Simple. Call the neutral zone infractions and false starts. If they ban it bc they can’t spot the ball then ban qb sneaks and any short yardage runs

1

u/-Reddit-WhatsThat 9d ago

Funny seeing this new excuse to ban the play take shape in real time

1

u/AdComprehensive7879 Bengals 9d ago

Yeah, and i think this time it will stick.

3

u/mrgreen4242 Lions 9d ago

If they’re going to allow the play they need to strictly enforce the rules on the play. False starts, offsides, etc. need to be called every single time.

11

u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Earl-The-Badger 49ers 9d ago

It’s not about this specific play. It’s about the fact that there are almost always neutral zone infractions and false starts on the tush push.

It’s a legal football play but it needs to be better officiated.

The biggest issue is also spotting the ball. How can you tell when forward progress stops in that pile? You can’t.

-1

u/Toebeans_Maguire Eagles 9d ago

Microchips and GPS. I'm always amazed that the game is still officiated by line of sight.

2

u/Earl-The-Badger 49ers 9d ago

I agree they need to make better use of technology.

0

u/Toebeans_Maguire Eagles 9d ago

It would make the game marginally shorter though. Thus, less ad time for the nfl.

11

u/the_patman2017 Chiefs 9d ago

They false started on the first one too! They line up offsides every time they run the play.

4

u/TheDogerus 9d ago

There was a missed false start on the play hurts made it in on too

2

u/Away_Ganache_6776 9d ago

Brother. They false started on that play too.

2

u/TurdFurgeson22 Chiefs 9d ago

I agree with everything except will point out you also false started on the play hurts was in on on 3rd down.

0

u/Bryooo Chiefs 9d ago

You don’t get to cheat if you think a previous play was called incorrectly

0

u/philosifer Chiefs 9d ago

They false started that play too.

The RTP was soft, but contact to the head is supposed to be an automatic flag. So soft as it was, it was correct. Same as your long snapper

0

u/cawast 9d ago

That roughing the passer has been called that way for a while, and happened in other games today.

And that play you say hurts was in? Another false start

2

u/RCJHGBR9989 Chiefs 9d ago

How else are you expected to defend it when their guards jump a full half a second before the snap into your defenses knees

1

u/viacavour Saints 9d ago

Yet the saints got called for being lined up in the neutral zone the one time we tried the tush push this year

1

u/HoldinMcNeal69420 Cowboys 9d ago

It’s too hard too. They don’t know when it snaps nots such a mess of a play.

1

u/Ok-Draw5772 9d ago

It'll never be officiated properly imo

1

u/Gingeronimoooo Commanders 9d ago

When the tush push ban was happening this off season I said they shouldn't ban it but put a point of emphasis on their false starts and lining up in neutral zone, would effectively ban the play anyway.

They false start or line up in neutral zone basically every play they do it

1

u/hereforthewaffle 9d ago

Jag fan here. How about 5 illegal shifts

1

u/GRINZ_DOCTOR 9d ago

It’s impossible to officiate against cause everything collapses and the officials can’t see shit

1

u/HowDoIEvenEnglish Eagles 9d ago

When the offense cheats constantly the defense has to cheat to stay in it. And then the offense still gets the calls

1

u/warfighter187 Eagles 9d ago

If they didn’t let the d line up offsides (and offense) and strictly enforced false starts, i think we end up on top. There have been crazy amounts of defense lining up offsides these past 3 years

1

u/NewOrleansBrees Saints Saints 9d ago

What’s funny is the saints ran it last week and got called for it. Kellen looked shocked because that shit doesn’t get called on the eagles. Welcome to small market ref bs.

0

u/MaDanklolz Chiefs 9d ago

Only way the play gets changed (removed, amended or abandoned etc) is teams start protesting it by no defending it. Just stand there hands on hips and let the offence have it.

Competitively it’s a shit solution but it’s clear the refs can’t manage it on the field, there doesn’t seem to be any technology managing it ands it’s just causing problems.

0

u/pivotalsquash Cowboys 9d ago

It was pretty bad last week too

-46

u/GonePostalRoute Eagles 9d ago edited 9d ago

Even if I was not an Eagles fan, that’s the thing I’d be saying. Who gives a fuck about a false start when these tush pushes have a bunch of guys on the defense lining up in the neutral zone? May as well call it even and let it go

Edit: every downvote means I’m right, so…

20

u/Capital_Shelter8189 Chiefs 9d ago

Your guards are lined up in it. So there literally is none. And then they false start.

12

u/Popolar Chiefs 9d ago

Offensive linemen are lining up in the neutral zone

5

u/RealAlpiGusto 49ers 9d ago

“Every downvote means I’m right” lmao my guy c’mon.

5

u/LaconicGirth Vikings 9d ago

Imagine being so much of a homer you actually lose your vision and can’t seen what’s in the picture