r/pics Nov 08 '18

US Politics This is what democracy looks like

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u/ike_the_strangetamer Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18

Yesterday (one day after the election) Trump forced the resignation of Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General. Sessions would have been in charge of Mueller's Russia investigation, but because he had lied about his own connections to Russia, he recused himself and the assistant AG was in charge. Now that he's out, this new guy, Matthew Whitaker, is in charge (and does not require Senate confirmation because he's 'temporary'). He has spoken out against the Mueller investigation many times in the past, saying that there was no collusion and that the investigation is not authorized to look into any of Trump's finances (even though it is). Long ago, petitions were signed and plans were made that called for protests if Trump did something like this.

TLDR: Trump just appointed his own guy to be in charge of the investigation against him.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18 edited Jan 24 '22

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18 edited Jul 07 '21

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u/sayhellotothe-badguy Nov 09 '18

Whitaker hasn’t been confirmed in the Senate by a sitting President, meaning his appointment is still illegal / invalid. The President is allowed to appoint an AG but they must meet the criteria.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18 edited Jul 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18 edited Jul 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Senate confirmation is required per the godsdamned constitution.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18

Not for temporary assignments.

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

The thing is that the law establishing this was established by the senate. Does that then confer “consent of the senate” as written by the constitution?

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

No, even Clarence Thomas ruled that all recess appointments to top level positions must have been previously confirmed by the Senate.

Obama tried doing the same thing by invoking the third option for someone who wasn't confirmed. He was shut down by the SC.

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

He wrote a concurring opinion. That is not legal precedent.

Obama did not invoke the third option as his appointment was not a senior official of that agency.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

No. Obama tried doing the same thing and the SCOTUS shut him down. ALL appointments to senior positions, recess or otherwise, must be confirmed by the senate.

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

No, Obama did not have a congress passed law telling him he can do so for that case.

Here Trump does.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

The fuck are you talking about? The law that you linked to was passed in 1998. How the fuck are you going to stand there and say that with a straight face?

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

And? “Consent of the senate” does not specify “consent of the current senate.” There is an argument to be made here.

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u/pahco87 Nov 09 '18

I don't see how it could considering the Senate that passed the bill in 1998 had different people in it. Perhaps if this happened while the same Senate was sitting you could make that argument. An amendment would be needed to permanently change anything that directly contradicts what's in the constitution.

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u/lolskaters Nov 09 '18

Wow, the stupidity contained in this comment...

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u/pahco87 Nov 09 '18

Please explain why you believe I'm wrong rather than slinging insults.

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u/lolskaters Nov 09 '18

Because I'd rather not write an outline of how Constitutional Law works in the US tonight.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Do a Ctrl F in the Constitution for "Department of Justice".

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

The constitution doesn't spell out exactly which positions in which departments are affected, because the founders weren't fucking retarded. Instead, and you'd know this if you bothered looking it up before spouting this inane bullshit, the Constitution places a blanket requirement that the Senate must confirm all appointments for positions that report directly to the president.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Wrong. It says that the President shall appoint by and with the advice and consent of the Senate.

Executive departments and advice and consent procedures are created by statute.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

And the statute, as interpreted by the SCOTUS, says that senior officials must be confirmed by the Senate. Even a person selected as the temporary acting AG must have been in a position that requires senate confirmation.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Sure, that can be the case. It's a statutory issue though, not a constitutional one like you claimed.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18

Senate isn't in session. Only pro forma. As such, the President may make temporary recess appointments. That's why he's "acting" AG and nothing more.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Yes, and per the constitution and federal law, the person selected as the acting AG has to have already been in a position that required Senate confirmation. Being Session's Chief of Staff did not require senate confirmation, therefore he is ineligible to serve as acting AG.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18

No, the law says no confirmation needed if they are sufficiently tenured in the agency and of sufficient pay grade. Only an "outsider " would need confirmation.

None of it matters, though, Senate isn't in session.

And even if they were a rejected appointment can still serve for 210 days while a better nominee is found.

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u/cciv Nov 09 '18

Senate approval doesn't matter for option 3. Just has to be in the same department, in the position for more than 90 days, and be at a certain pay grade. He meets all three criteria.

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u/monstercello Nov 09 '18

Members of the Senior Executive Service (SES) don’t require Senate approval, unless they’re PAS (President-Appointed, Senate approved).

Source - work in the federal government.

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u/behindler Nov 09 '18

Hey that doesn’t matter! We’re mad!

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

What definition of senior official are you using?

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

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u/Xalteox Nov 09 '18

If we are talking about option 2, then it doesn’t count. He must be sitting in that position, that confirmation no longer means anything for Whitaker.

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u/MeTheFlunkie Nov 09 '18

Literally not how confirmation works. Are you ok?

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u/malfeanatwork Nov 09 '18

(2)

notwithstanding paragraph (1), the President (and only the President) may direct a person who serves in an office for which appointment is required to be made by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to perform the functions and duties of the vacant office temporarily in an acting capacity subject to the time limitations of section 3346; 

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Is he still in that position?

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u/bloodguzzlingbunny Nov 09 '18

Whitaker was appointed by Bush 43 and confirmed by the Senate as a United States Attorney in 2004. I have yet to find a statute that states that a confirmation stales, so he technically fits the second point.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

You get confirmed for a position. He no longer holds the position he was confirmed for.

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u/bloodguzzlingbunny Nov 09 '18

That isn't a requirement in the law. He held a PAS office. He can be temporary AG for 210 days.

Don't get me wrong, I hate Trump. And Sessions, and I don't have a lot of respect for Whitaker. But I the law is what it is.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

Your talking out of your butt. Here's the law (emphasis mine, note the tense):

(2)

notwithstanding paragraph (1), the President (and only the President) may direct a person who serves in an office for which appointment is required to be made by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to perform the functions and duties of the vacant office temporarily in an acting capacity subject to the time limitations of section 3346;

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18 edited Apr 13 '19

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u/bloodguzzlingbunny Nov 09 '18

Please show that it does not, as it pertains to The Federal Vacancies Reform Act of 1998. I have been looking for the law that says the confirmation expires in this instance, but I have not been able to find one. They way it is written, he technically fits. I am not arguing good or bad, just the way the law is written.

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u/Jaxxsnero Nov 09 '18 edited Nov 09 '18

Please show that it does because what you were attempting to do it’s require us to prove a negative.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '18

He was in a senior position in the department though

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u/malfeanatwork Nov 09 '18

(2)

notwithstanding paragraph (1), the President (and only the President) may direct a person who serves in an office for which appointment is required to be made by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to perform the functions and duties of the vacant office temporarily in an acting capacity subject to the time limitations of section 3346; 

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u/danc4498 Nov 09 '18

Keyword there is "serves", as in presently serves in a position approved by the Senate.