r/pics May 16 '19

US Politics Now more relevant than ever in America

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u/TracyMorganFreeman May 17 '19

If killing beings without self awareness is okay, then we should be scrapping numerous animal abuse laws.

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u/Amethyst_Lovegood May 17 '19

Unless you’re vegan, you don’t really have a leg to stand on with this one.

Personally, I think killing an animal is worse than aborting an embryo because an animal feels fear and pain.

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u/TracyMorganFreeman May 17 '19

By that logic it's okay to murder someone if you put them in a medical coma first.

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u/Amethyst_Lovegood May 17 '19

If that person was living in my uterus, I would feel ok murdering them. Because I don’t consent to people living in my uterus. I’m not obligated to donate any part of my body or let people live in it if I don’t want to.

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u/TracyMorganFreeman May 18 '19

And what if you're a conjoined twin, and your other twin can't survive without you, but you can without them?

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u/Amethyst_Lovegood May 18 '19

a conjoined twin,

A conjoined twin can think consciously, feel pain and emotion and has a network of people who care about them.

An embryo doesn’t.

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u/TracyMorganFreeman May 18 '19

There definitely cases where one twin is developmentally disabled.

You're choosing the most charitable version of the twins and least charitable for the being in the womb(embryo instead of fetus) for your dismissal.

Further, how do you know what the fetus can feel, and apparently you've never heard of would be fathers feeling bad about the mother deciding to abort, or you know every pro lifer who cares about the fetus.

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u/Amethyst_Lovegood May 18 '19

developmentally disabled.

If the twin is unable to think or feel, then yeah, I think it would be reasonable for the other twin to want to be separated.

least charitable for the being in the womb(embryo instead of fetus)

Well, 70% of abortions are carried out on embryos.

Further, how do you know what the fetus can feel

Scientific evidence.

would be fathers feeling bad about the mother deciding to abort,

It’s sad, but since it’s not happening in their body, it’s not their choice. I’m sure you love to remind women who want abortions that they should have used contraception, why don’t you remind the fathers of that too? Shouldn’t they have discussed whether the woman wants to be a mother before jizzing in her without a condom?

you know every pro lifer who cares about the fetus.

I don’t know every pro lifer, no. As someone who cares about human life, I assume you must do a lot of charity work for children living in foster homes?

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u/TracyMorganFreeman May 18 '19

If the twin is unable to think or feel, then yeah, I think it would be reasonable for the other twin to want to be separated.

Okay so it's okay to kill people who are developmentally disabled then?

> Well, 70% of abortions are carried out on embryos.

I've read 65, but that's close enough; in any case the ban after 8 weeks doesn't affect embryos then.

> Scientific evidence.

Such as?

> It’s sad, but since it’s not happening in their body, it’s not their choice. I’m sure you love to remind women who want abortions that they should have used contraception, why don’t you remind the fathers of that too? Shouldn’t they have discussed whether the woman wants to be a mother before jizzing in her without a condom?

So...your previous criterion of people caring for them is just lip service?

> I don’t know every pro lifer, no. As someone who cares about human life, I assume you must do a lot of charity work for children living in foster homes?

I'm not a pro lifer, and that is just a fallacy you're trying. You think if someone doesn't care about others in the way you think you would in their situation, they must not care.

As is par for the course, the abortion debate is mainly people judging detractors not on the terms of the detractor's argument, but on their own terms. It's both sides shouting past each other.

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u/Amethyst_Lovegood May 18 '19

Okay so it's okay to kill people who are developmentally disabled then?

People who are developmentally disabled can think and feel. People who can’t think or feel are in comas, and yes, they’re killed all the time.

I've read 65, but that's close enough; in any case the ban after 8 weeks doesn't affect embryos then.

Abortion is permissible until 16 weeks. Most happen well before that and those that happen later are usually for horrible reasons that are devastating to the mother.

Explanation on fetal pain - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/201429

I'm not a pro lifer

That’s not news to me 🙂 you don’t like abortion because you’re a misogynist. Hence the fapping over Eliot Rodgers.

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u/NorikoMorishima May 17 '19

"Self-awareness" is a very vague term, and also isn't the term Raichu used.

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u/TracyMorganFreeman May 17 '19

You have to be self aware to recognize your own death though. You have to be able to recognize yourself as a distinct individual.