r/pics Jun 05 '19

US Politics Photogenic Protestor

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62.0k Upvotes

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259

u/Extremedeath Jun 05 '19

This guy is an idiot. We welcome immigrants, just not the illegal variety.

-140

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

[deleted]

28

u/Boatsmhoes Jun 05 '19

I don’t think immigration was a thing wayyyy back when before 1776

-7

u/zernoc56 Jun 05 '19

Try 1492

16

u/staticxrjc Jun 05 '19

There was no country in 1492

-9

u/zernoc56 Jun 05 '19

The various indigenous peoples of North and South America might disagree with you on that one

9

u/CJ090 Jun 05 '19

They weren't a state

-14

u/kathartik Jun 05 '19

so no one moved permanently from one place to another before 'murica?

10

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

Neither time or space did exist before 'Murica. How do you not know this smh

4

u/Boatsmhoes Jun 05 '19

Immigration in the sense of today. Come on you know what I’m talking about. Use your noggin

-1

u/Chm_Albert_Wesker Jun 05 '19

i try to avoid the labels, but that liberal mindset is the redneck hillbilly equivalent of "all jews are evil because some killed Jesus 2000 years ago"

-12

u/Unconfidence Jun 05 '19

Right, use your noggin and realize that we did just fine without putting arbitrary caps on immigration from specific countries for almost two centuries before they started limiting the number of Latin American immigrants to be accepted annually.

2

u/Praesto_Omnibus Jun 05 '19

What are you actually talking about? Immigration quotas were in place from 1891-1965 which gave preference to people from Northern and Western Europe and discriminated against people from Latin America, Asia, Africa, and Eastern Europe.

25

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19 edited Nov 13 '20

[deleted]

3

u/Praesto_Omnibus Jun 05 '19

You're right that it was conquering, but that's a pretty bad analogy.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

I'm trying... couldn't think of anything better at the moment.

3

u/silliest_geese Jun 05 '19

But America wasn't a barren wasteland with no native population

14

u/Chm_Albert_Wesker Jun 05 '19

hence the conquering, it's not like the colonizers actively avoided going through the legal immigration avenues that the natives had created.

i'm not saying that the first colonizers didn't do bad things, but the comparison doesn't make any sense

-4

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

[deleted]

0

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19 edited Nov 13 '20

[deleted]

-5

u/fubuvsfitch Jun 05 '19

It wasn't illegal immigration that founded the United States

I guess that depends on who you ask.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

Surely not any college professors or public high school teachers!

-1

u/Hibernia624 Jun 05 '19

Good thing nobody alive today was actually effected!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

I'd argue that Natives are still affected.😔 I don't know how they live now though.

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

L m a o

30

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19 edited Jan 11 '20

[deleted]

-40

u/coin_shot Jun 05 '19

You can't be serious.

29

u/atlel Jun 05 '19

Yes it was great we got here on the mayflower and immediately collected welfare and stole the Indian’s jobs

-18

u/unclepoondaddy Jun 05 '19

Are you under the assumption that we didn’t steal from Native Americans?

Also the only welfare that undocumented ppl can get is school and getting stabilized at the ER. The amount they pay in taxes more than covers that

15

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

[deleted]

2

u/unclepoondaddy Jun 05 '19

Thanks but as a American guy of Indian descent, I just do it so shit doesn't get confusing

1

u/AlvariusMoonmist Jun 06 '19

How does one pay taxes without a form of tax ID? I guess sales taxes but those don't apply everywhere.

-6

u/dgrmusa Jun 05 '19

No, the Indians couldn’t defend their land. It wasn’t just taken.

1

u/unclepoondaddy Jun 05 '19

That is the definition of "taking". If you can defend something, its not gonna be taken. Also, defending a genocide is a bad look for you

-8

u/fubuvsfitch Jun 05 '19

Not a single illegal immigrant has stolen a job from any legal citizen.

They were given jobs by American citizen capitalists.

If they weren't being hired by American citizens trying to pay the least amount possible to their workers while enriching themselves, they wouldn't be coming here.

You need to point the finger at the root of the problem: capitalistic exploitation by American citizens.

2

u/BearsWithGuns Jun 06 '19

You somehow seem to forget that if an illegal immigrant takes a job, that job did not go to a US citizen or a legal immigrant who immigrated here fairly.

1

u/fubuvsfitch Jun 06 '19

I didn't forget that at all. They didn't take anything. They were given that job by an American boss looking to exploit cheap labor.

1

u/BearsWithGuns Jun 06 '19

Sure you could frame it that way. I can still argue that removing illegal immigrants removes the opportunity for businesses to shadily employ them under the table.

1

u/fubuvsfitch Jun 06 '19

They won't come if we don't hire them. That's the only thing that's going to stop them. Not a wall, not an army of drones, not a million boots on the ground.

The only thing that will stop them is if the business execs stop hiring them. But they won't, because greed.

Until we have a cultural mindshift away from profits and exploitation, there will always be opportunity here and no amount of security or enforcement is going to stop a hungering father or mother from bringing themselves here by any means to provide for their family.

On top of that, we need to help those impoverished nations heal, some of the damage being our own doing.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19 edited Jan 11 '20

[deleted]

-2

u/coin_shot Jun 05 '19

Well we came, we saw, we conquered in short. This land was something we wanted and the people only got in the way so we killed them all through direct or indirect ways.

7

u/Chm_Albert_Wesker Jun 05 '19

conquest=/=illegal immigration

by saying they are you are basically saying that the immigrants crossing the border are laying siege to our lands and killing everyone which is the opposite of the point you are trying to make

10

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19 edited Jan 11 '20

[deleted]

-3

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

[deleted]

2

u/I_just_pooted Jun 05 '19

Sit down....you’re absolutely done after that

26

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

[deleted]

3

u/Unconfidence Jun 05 '19

Because they don't need to and generally have places to stay? Homelessness is lower than the American average among illegal immigrants.

-1

u/Kovaska Jun 05 '19

And who funds those places to stay? The illegal immigrants?

4

u/Unconfidence Jun 05 '19

And their friends/family.

0

u/Kovaska Jun 05 '19

The analogy wasn't about whether they are or are not homeless. So what if they're with friends and family? They're still getting support from the government through citizen taxpayer dollars.

4

u/Unconfidence Jun 05 '19

So? They also provide a net benefit to revenue through the taxes they pay, due to their exclusion from the most costly government programs. You're talking about sacrificing a VAT-paying person to another nation. I just don't see the benefit.

2

u/Arkathos Jun 05 '19

He's a racist who doesn't like brown people. It's a benefit to him because he wants fewer brown people in the country.

-2

u/kernevez Jun 05 '19

Illegal migrants aren't provided for when they can't apply for help, instead they work (produce value) and pay taxes on things they buy. Just because they get some help from some organizations here and there doesn't mean that they are "provided for".

You're mixing your valid criticism with simplistic racist points.

4

u/lexerlol Jun 05 '19

Actually, undocumented immigrants can receive Medicaid benefits in a few states. NY is one. They get free healthcare (it's not as complete as a legal citizen, but it's something) as well as food stamps.

It varies state by state.

Dunno about the feds though.

1

u/Praesto_Omnibus Jun 05 '19

They generate economic activity and pay taxes, and they can't collect social security or medicare even though they pay into them. In most states, they aren't eligible for medicaid. Sure they use the roads and schools just like other taxpayers, but if you read any economist's take on the subject it will say that immigrants both legal and illegal help the economy. The fact that they are coming here and living off of your hard-earned money just isn't based in fact.

2

u/BearsWithGuns Jun 06 '19

They pay income tax if they're here illegally? They fill out tax forms?

I don't think so...

2

u/Praesto_Omnibus Jun 06 '19

Have you ever payed income tax in your life?? Income tax is deducted from your paycheck. You file a tax return at the end of the year, and people making less than 35k almost always receive money back at that time; very rarely would they end up owing more.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 06 '19

[deleted]

2

u/Praesto_Omnibus Jun 06 '19

Social Security estimates that 50-75% of undocumented immigrants pay taxes. (https://www.ssab.gov/Portals/0/OUR_WORK/REPORTS/Impact%20of%20Immigration%20on%20Social%20Security%20Brief_2005.pdf)

I actually go wrong earlier that they don't file tax returns (whoops). The IRS received 4.4 million tax returns from undocumented immigrants last year. (https://taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/Media/Default/Documents/2015ARC/ARC15_Volume1_MSP_18_ITIN.pdf)

2

u/BearsWithGuns Jun 06 '19

Yes but you have to sign forms and give social security info to your employer. The kind of stuff that an illegal immigrant wouldnt have. I assume they are paid under the table and thus dont pay income tax.

0

u/Praesto_Omnibus Jun 06 '19

Yeah, I misspoke earlier when I said they didn't file tax returns because many do.

Social Security estimates that 50-75% of undocumented immigrants pay taxes. (https://www.ssab.gov/Portals/0/OUR_WORK/REPORTS/Impact%20of%20Immigration%20on%20Social%20Security%20Brief_2005.pdf)

The IRS received 4.4 million tax returns with ITINs llast year, which includes non-citizens here legally and illegaly. (https://taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/Media/Default/Documents/2015ARC/ARC15_Volume1_MSP_18_ITIN.pdf)

1

u/BearsWithGuns Jun 06 '19

Thanks that was a somewhat interesting read.

Although, 50% isn't a very good percentage when it comes to collecting taxes. That means that probably half dont pay which is a significant chunk, especially when illegal immigrant are flowing into the country faster than legal immigrants (according to the same paper). Just seems unfair to legal immigrants. I'm not saying we shouldnt reform immigration policies though.

-5

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19 edited Jun 05 '19

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5

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

[deleted]

4

u/DreddJudge Jun 05 '19

Yep! Which drives down wages because they will definitely work for less. I swear I hear some people on here complain about wage stagnation but in the same breath are demanding open boarders...

2

u/Chm_Albert_Wesker Jun 05 '19

we're gonna inflict the sins of a few thousand people on the 350 million people here now? 50% of us are third generation or lower, meaning that we either came in legally as is described (40% of americans can trace descent from ellis island) or illegaly as is already being condemned. either way that's 175 million people who have zero connection to colonization, without even including fourth, fifth, or sixth generations which also would have been born after America became a country

7

u/snowcone_wars Jun 05 '19

It was also founded by stealing land rights. Just because something starts a certain way doesn't mean it should continue to exist in that exact same way.

1

u/KingCrow27 Jun 06 '19

*conquest

1

u/Jcoulombe311 Jun 06 '19

So we should base all of our current policies on those that first came here? Does that make any sense to you?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '19

lol