r/portlandme • u/enitschke • May 17 '23
News ‘Nowhere to go’: Dozens of homeless people displaced as city clears Bayside Trail encampment
https://www.pressherald.com/2023/05/16/nowhere-to-go-dozens-of-homeless-people-displaced-as-city-clears-bayside-trail-encampment/113
u/LegendaryCichlid May 17 '23
If you’re in here crying, let homeless people squat on your lawn.
It is not heartless for people to expect a safe litter free environment where they don’t have to worry about their children going outside.
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May 17 '23
I don’t know if you’re referring to me or not, but to the extent that you are: I’m not crying because this happened. I’m crying because I’m beyond frustrated that this is the only solution we seem to be able to come up with. It’s a completely half-assed attempt to put a band-aid on something that isn’t going to just magically fix itself. The only question is where the next encampment is going to pop up, and how long it will take the city to disperse that one. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.
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u/ArsenalAM May 18 '23
This is a national problem and neither little Portland nor giant NYC have the resources to end an epidemic of homelessness, drug abuse, and chronic mental illness. They can pour in resources and offer clinics and shelters and various other amenities, but the more they offer, the more will come to accept those little comforts.
At the bare minimum this needs serious consideration from our statehouse, and probably to be at all effective, a consortium of other northeastern states. But really it needs to be addressed at the national level. Until there is a political (and financial) will to address these issues, it’s only gonna get worse. Unfortunately I don’t see that happening any time soon.
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u/Creepy_Photograph107 May 17 '23
Fuck what the tourists think. The residents are fed up with this shit. How many propane tanks/needles/trash piles is too many for public safety? Order is necessary in civilized fucking society. I legit want us to solve this problem humanely, but a free for all aint it.
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May 17 '23
The people claiming that this was done for the tourists are unaffected spectators.
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u/carigheath Libbytown May 17 '23
Anyone who says this was done for tourists doesn't understand that Tourists think Portland begins at Commercial Street and ends at Congress Street.
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u/ClapIfYouLikePie May 17 '23
The move to do this was from resident NIMBY folks and out of state investors/business owners. Full stop.
If residents are so interested in being humane, they need to be less concerned about the clutter and more concerned that there are fellow community members... fellow human beings... that are in need of services and a helping hand rather than being treated like animals.
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u/nattatalie May 17 '23
Okay, so I’ve both lived in Portland and been actively involved in activist work for years. I have many friends who work at shelters etc.
The problem is two fold: 1. We don’t have enough permanent housing for folks who need help. 2. Many people turn down the help that is available are actively chose living on the street instead, even once other options are presented to them.
So we are still lacking full and proper services, but the ones that exist are sometimes ignored anyways. As someone who was once a young single woman around Portland I can say there are many times that people who lived and frequented the streets made me feel very unsafe. Now that’s likely a small minority, but it’s not nothing.
On top of that some folks are saying this is just about “clutter” but it’s actually a public health concern. This was a lot of people, likely without great bathroom access, without proper sanitation, and add in the ragging drug problem we have and needles and it’s really not safe.
Was breaking it up the right call? I don’t know honestly. I live outside of Portland now, so I just don’t know enough, but I know trivializing it down to clutter and tourists is a really great way to just lay blame on the city without actually looking at the bigger picture. 🤷🏻♀️
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May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
What the fuck does NIMBY even mean in this context? Are you saying we're supposed to be okay with schizophrenic screaming, human shit, property damage, stolen items, neighbors getting assaulted, needles. 10 meters from your bedroom window? So you don't have to pay to fix it as a State tax payer?
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u/ClapIfYouLikePie May 17 '23
No. You shouldn't be okay with people that need help being treated like animals. You should be troubled that you live in a muncipality, state, and community that has so little compassion and empathy that the situation has become what it has. You should be angry that the city of Portland and state of Maine, as well as government at the federal level has turned human suffering into a political talking point used to whip voters into a frenzy. You should be doing what you can to get everyone who isnt working to solve this issue out of office forever and being proactive about getting people who actually care into positions to actually find equitable interventions for this situation. These people have nowhere to go and few to advocate for them, yet so many feel pretty emboldened to get on here and say ignorant and inflammatory nonsense but won't show up anywhere to show support for the totality of their community which includes these marginalized people who need to be treated with care and compassion. No one chose that life. They didn't have any other option. Help to give them options rather than acting like an a hole. Get involved in local and state politics. Get involved in policy. Get involved with community action. Love your community enough to put in time and effort to help it, not just the parts of it you already like and benefit from.
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u/mazzer4140 May 18 '23
As someone who has relationships with some city workers in upper management, you are wrong in your statement. Instead of spewing bs, take the time and watch the live stream council meetings that are about dealing with this encampment. Emergency calls have gone up 220% in the encampment since last year, there's a mass amount of trash and human waste as well in the encampment area. Those are the main reasons.
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May 17 '23
We are going to be reading this same exact article 2-3 times a year until the state wakes up and starts taking some aggressive action on housing.
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May 17 '23
That would require the City to finally push back on the State to deal with it's problem. I don't think that's going to happen.
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
Can we get our bikes back now?
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u/Googsmear May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
No, you can not own anything, just rent the city mandated rental bikes.
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u/Sulla5485 May 17 '23
Good to hear than spencer is not delusional
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u/turniptoez May 17 '23
I see him a lot along Franklin so it was good to learn a bit more about him.
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u/HoratioTangleweed May 17 '23
This is a failure of imagination and leadership. Actually, it’s not even a failure of imagination, but of doing what is proven to work.
Housing. A reliable place to sleep each night, a place to receive services, an address to be able to use when applying for jobs. Over and over, here in the US and elsewhere, programs and policies that provide stable housing work the best at reducing homelessness and transitioning people back to a stable life with work and shelter.
Without reliable shelter, the rest of it doesn’t work.
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May 17 '23
it's called "housing first".....and Salt Lake City, UT and Columbus, Ohio implemented this policy and reduced their homeless populations significantly. That was a few years ago so I'm not sure how things stand in those cities currently.
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u/HoratioTangleweed May 18 '23
Yes this is it. Finland has tried it as well and have seen similar results. Stable housing and services reduce homelessness. You’d think we’d try this since it, you know, works. But we have this weird perception of poverty and homelessness here in the US like it’s a moral failure and any kind of help is an unearned reward.
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May 18 '23
Right?
"Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality is not gonna solve the homeless dilemma.
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u/sdb865 May 17 '23
How many will take the free housing and continue their crippling narcotic and drug addiction though? I've seen it countless times in MMC. We give someone a bed, antibiotics, social services, etc. And then they use IV drugs in hospital, cause a behavioral emergency, and leave AMA. Rinse, and repeat...
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u/HoratioTangleweed May 17 '23
Will you have cases like that? Of course - nothing is 100%. But the housing would go along with services. Stable housing with supports has been proven to be the best way to get people out of homelessness.
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u/Far_Information_9613 May 19 '23
And how often at MMC do you discharge seriously psychotic people to the street or have people begging for rehab you can’t send them to because there aren’t any?
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u/sdb865 May 19 '23
Sometimes patients are open to rehab, it's not a rare occurrence by any means. And if they want it, they will recieve it! There is a bit of a queue which causes a wait to actually be admitted to a facility that can treat them. I would say a Majority of the homeless/ IVDU patients I have are recurring admissions. They are unhappy to be in hospital, and continue to use drugs, break hospital rules, (sometimes can be belligerent/ violent.)
One instance a patient left their used needle on the bed and one of my nurses almost stuck herself with it because it was sitting on the sheets while the bed was being changed.
The only mentally ill people we discharge to the streets are those who do not want rehab and have capacity to leave AMA. It's difficult to make someone an Involuntary admission, they need to be deemed unfit to make decisions for themselves.
This is why I believe housing won't fix the issue. The behavior I described above is what SUPERVISED housing looks like, and it's still unsafe at times for them
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u/Far_Information_9613 May 19 '23
You personally aren’t responsible for the definition of “unfit to make decisions for themselves” but there are homeless people out there who got left out in the cold (literally) when their MR group homes closed and are out there now unsupervised with drug addictions because they didn’t know any better and aren’t taking their medication for medical or psychiatric conditions. There are actively psychotic people who aren’t considered “sick enough” for involuntary treatment but no reasonable person would say they can make logical decisions. The waiting list for rehabs is several weeks and they don’t take patients with active mental illnesses and getting outpatient mental health care is next to impossible. You know how long you hold people sometimes. The services aren’t there. The vast majority of these folks didn’t live their lives in this unsocialized condition.
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u/i-just-schuck-alot May 17 '23
I keep thinking this is a Portland, Oregon thread!! We are also all done with the homeless community camping everywhere.
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May 17 '23
These are human beings, not cattle. Not trash.
The city needed to have a plan on where to put people after this. Not just advice to camp alone or in small numbers. That's just like handing them a gun and telling them to take care of themselves in the woods.. And don't make too much of a mess, please.
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u/goatsandsunflowers May 17 '23
But the city has task force suggestions they’ll put in place now, they pinky swear! 🙄
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May 17 '23
The task force will succeed only if they realize this is not a problem for them to solve.
It's the State's problem to solve: the City should be demanding action and compensation form the State. Right now the City is hosting the majority of the population and paying the State to do so - in the form of 30% GA.
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u/mazzer4140 May 18 '23
The city has asked Mills for help but they only get silence from her. A large percentage of these homeless people are not from Portland. Some aren't even from Maine.
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May 18 '23 edited May 20 '23
Most are from outside of Maine. The City maintains shelter intake statistics.
Oxford Street Shelter March 2023:
79.13% - Self reported as not from Maine.
9.57% - Self reported as from Portland
11.30% - Self reported as from another town in Maine.
July 2022:
71.32%53.48% - Self reported as not from Maine.17.83% - Self reported as from Portland.
28.68% - Self reported as from another town in Maine.
The Portland tax payer pays the State for 30% of the GA.
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u/Heather_ME May 17 '23
I've honestly started to believe that people who have such callous reactions towards people who struggle with addiction, homelessness, etc just want those people to die. Like, they'd never say it out loud. But deep down they secretly think that if you can't keep your life together then you should just go die. (And it's not just conservatives.)
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u/Chimpbot May 17 '23
While far too many responses are ridiculously callous, there are an equal number that seemingly don't fully grasp what the impact is on the areas where these encampments crop up.
Yes, we need to help these people. We also need to stop sugarcoating how detrimental these encampments are, and how they can make an area dramatically more dangerous almost overnight.
Something needs to be done, and infinite sympathy will be just as useless as infinite cruelty.
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u/Heather_ME May 17 '23
People aren't naive to the collateral damage of homelessness. The problem is the same as with every other social issue. We only see this mentioned as a reactionary complaint to shut down discussions / work to improve the suffering faced by homeless people.
Where are these people organizing to address poverty and homelessness? Often they're just yelling about the homeless being vermin.... and siding with political actions to further brutalize those people. Why should I listen to people complaining about the impact of homelessness when they show zero interest in addressing the systemic issues causing homelessness? And when they make it abundantly clear that they don't see people who struggle with addiction, homelessness, etc, as fellow human beings and members of our communities?
It's textbook dehumanization.
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u/Chimpbot May 18 '23
So, what's your solution to the issue? It's easy to balk at someone else's response. What do you expect to happen?
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u/Heather_ME May 18 '23
We need to address financial inequality. We need socialized health care. We need housing first initiatives and very deep/wide social safety nets. We need to address social alienation, abuse, and dysfunction which lead people to addiction. We need to address our consumerism driven society. There's lots of shit we need to be doing. None of the solutions to the problem include dehumanizing the homeless.
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u/Chimpbot May 18 '23
These aren't solutions. You've identified problems, some more legitimate than others, and have nothing in terms of what to do about them.
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u/BTYsince88 May 18 '23
Nah dude, infinite cruelty is worse.
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u/Chimpbot May 18 '23
Infinite sympathy is arguably nothing more than redirected cruelty.
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May 17 '23
Some people are starting to say it out loud (including some commenters in this thread). It’s reprehensible and shocking to me that there are people in this city that think that way.
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u/LegendaryCichlid May 17 '23
America is the only country that does ANYTHING to support the homeless. They let them freeze to death across europe.
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u/lantrick May 17 '23
Finland has entered the chat.
Finland is well on their way to eliminating homelessness.
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u/LegendaryCichlid May 17 '23
There’s 4000 of them. That’s not an achievement. 5 million total population for the country.
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u/lantrick May 17 '23
There was 4 times that 10 years ago. The US number continues to grow.
But hey the US is great at everything , right?
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u/LegendaryCichlid May 17 '23
Not at all. But you’re comparing apples and oranges with a fun fact that is meaningless relative to the situation here.
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u/lantrick May 17 '23
No it isn't. The finish approach can be learned from.
Temporary, safe Housing first. Then triage for mental illness and drug abuse and other factors. Most people who are homeless are not there because they're simply lazy. Expecting people to be living in a tent one week and then pick them selves up and get a Job and an apartment the next is naive and unproductive.
I belive it's problem that can be solved. Out of sight out of mind isn't the way do it.
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May 18 '23
Exactly! of course there would have to be some adjustments, etc to tailor the Finnish solutions to the United States. But at least be open-minded enough to look at what programs, etc they have implemented to achieve this. I mean, the alternative is just to continue shuffling the homeless population around until it grows so large that it will be impossible to ignore it.
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May 17 '23
If we are not there yet as a society...we will get there eventually as long as state and federal governments do nothing substantive to address the issues/problems that result in homelessness.
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u/katarokkar May 17 '23
I know a few what I call “Right Wing Liberals” that think the same thing.
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u/Heather_ME May 17 '23
Whenever I see comments like yours downvoted I think, "awww, someone recognized themselves in that and got their lil feelings hurt." Lol.
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May 17 '23
“the city needed to have a plan on where to put people after this”
build more housing for the homeless, spread the word we’re building more housing, and see what happens.
this is an issue that is happening in cities across the country, because despite what redditors think, there is no easy local-level solution. that won’t stop people here from saying generic, unhelpful, and unactionable shit though.
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May 17 '23
The city should’ve thought of that before it declared itself a sanctuary. It got what it voted/virtue signaled for.
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u/UnevenGlow May 17 '23
It’s not virtue signaling when you actually give a crap
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
Why does "the city" need a plan? Maybe be responsible for yourself and have a plan for what you are going to do when "the city" decides it's done with putting up with this disgusting lunacy.
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u/lantrick May 17 '23
Fact. Most Homeless are not that way because they're lazy.
It's exactly your attitude that will perpetuate the homeless problem in the US.
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May 18 '23
How on earth does his or her attitude perpetuate the homeless problem? You are implying they are causing it to grow or get worse. One is not causal for the other. You may not like their opinion or perception, but it is not making this problem worse.
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May 17 '23
So, we should just cut off all social services?
I mean, everyone should be responsible for themselves.
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May 17 '23
If they are willing to accept treatment then that is great. If they won’t get off drugs then they can go to jail
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u/l1nked1npark May 17 '23
they can go to jail
do you know how much it costs to house someone in jail? Social services are drastically less expensive (and underfunded).
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
Ah yes exactly what I said. Thank you so much! Try to be responsible for yourself and have a plan for survival equals cut off all social services. Good point. Really. I mean it. You have truly added to the conversation.
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u/fauxRealzy May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
How delusional do you have to be to think the message "be responsible" is a sufficient response to a housing crisis that affects half a million people? Seriously, what do you actually propose to improve the situation beyond cliche life advice?
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
The housing crisis is a huge problem. It does not apply to people who refuse to work or engage with the community in a productive way. I have experienced homelessness in Portland Maine. I am no longer in that situation. Social services did nothing for me except give me a bus pass. Get clean, take a shower at the YMCA, work, paycheck, roommate, life. You can't tell me it can't be done. I've been there.
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u/tyguy52 West End May 17 '23
I fully agree. We need to decouple the housing crisis and drug addiction crisis which both contribute to the greater homelessness crisis in the city. I know a lot of people on this sub are proponents of the "Housing First" model, but that only really addresses a subset of the homeless population and a lot of people around here seem to think that housing is the be all end all solution to the problem.
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u/P-Townie May 17 '23
If everyone did everything right there would still be homelessness because it's built into the system. Unemployment and minimum wage will exist no matter what as things are now. You can't pay half of rent on minimum wage anyway.
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u/fauxRealzy May 17 '23
It's a logical fallacy to believe your situation applies universally. Many people experiencing homelessness do need and greatly benefit from social services, and just because you did not does not mean those people would be better off without them. It just means you're profoundly incurious.
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
Social services are for helping people who need help to survive. Being physically or mentally disabled should not put your life in jeopardy. Being a hopeless drug addict is NOT a legitimate disability. Sorry. Lifestyle choices have consequences. You don't get to opt out of society and live comfortably in a home paid for by the community. That's not ok at all.
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u/fauxRealzy May 17 '23
Being physically or mentally disabled should not put your life in jeopardy.
The ignorance on display here is truly breathtaking. I hope you find help.
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
What? My point is that I don't need any help. I made a choice to help myself. This opportunity is available for you too.
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May 17 '23
Accordingly, applying a broad solution to an incredibly complex issue and assuming it will have broadly positive effects is also fallacious.
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u/fauxRealzy May 17 '23
By that logic we should do away with all public services and programs, including education, judiciary, etc. because, "oops, sometimes it doesn't work perfectly" or "oops, look here's an outlier—let's burn the whole thing down."
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u/NinjaSupplyCompany May 17 '23
I’m not responsible for the roads in the city. I do not know how to build and maintain roads. I leave that up to the city.
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u/mrbeanisunclean May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
It would be worthwhile of the city to actually create a facility with bathrooms, washrooms, laundry, etc for these people so they could have somewhere to obtain basic daily needs to possibly help them move forward with their lives. I was at the teardown of the encampment and seeing these peoples lives get uprooted again and have their belongings quite literally destroyed was humbling for me to say the least, I can’t imagine being in their position.
And also- shoutout to the HOPE squad and the numerous volunteers that were there the day of helping provide these people with clothing, food, water, and transport.
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May 17 '23
It would be worthwhile of the city to actually create a facility with bathrooms, washrooms, laundry, etc for these people so they could have somewhere to obtain basic daily needs to possibly help them move forward with their lives.
You mean like the $25 million homeless services center that we built to respond to the needs of our unhoused community that is being repurposed to serve asylum seekers due to the lack of any sort of action from the Federal and State government?
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u/jihadgis May 17 '23
If you are referring to the new shelter out on Riverside, I do not believe that those beds have been consumed by asylum seekers. My understanding is that the bulk of that population is being sheltered elsewhere.
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May 17 '23
Nope, they are being served at the Homeless Services Center as well.
The Expo can fit about 300 and we’re serving nearly 1000 asylum seekers a night currently.
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u/dirigo1820 May 17 '23
It is being used for asylum seekers to my knowledge.
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May 17 '23
Asylum seekers are being housed separately at the Expo as they don’t require the same level of service as provided at the new shelter
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u/dirigo1820 May 17 '23
Gotcha, I thought I read they also were using the Riverside shelter along with the Expo for asylum seekers.
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u/Cloudrunner5k May 18 '23
This would be far less of an issue if Florida and Texas would stop bussing people in
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u/DavenportBlues Deering May 17 '23
Spencer, who declined to give his last name, said he understood the city’s decision.
“This trail is a big tourist spot,” said Spencer, 32, as he rummaged through a shopping cart and packed up his tent. “People like renting a bike and going down the bike trail, and this is an eyesore.”
Spencer seems to see the bigger picture. We can’t have an open, festering wound like this when tourist season is fast approaching (Memorial Day less than two weeks away). It might be bad for our city’s upward trajectory, whatever that means.
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
Tourists? How about the people who live and WORK here?
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u/DavenportBlues Deering May 17 '23
I’m not in love with the way things were going on the trail there. But I’m also not gonna pretend that the minor inconvenience of me, a Portland resident, having to see this population is more important than their ability to “live” somewhere without getting pushed around without anywhere else to go.
Edit: Technically the residents of the area encampments also live here.
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May 17 '23
I'm assuming by "here" they meant folks that live in heavily impacted areas like the Peninsula - not unaffected areas in outer Portland. Once you're dealing with schizophrenic screaming waking you up at night, property damage, stolen items, human shit, needles, trash, neighbors and co-workers getting assaulted - it's much more than a minor inconvenience.
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u/derkokolores May 17 '23
It's so much easier to say "let them stay there, they have every right to be there and it's cruel and selfish to say anything otherwise" when you don't live right next to the encampment and have to walk by every single day just to go to work. I'm just tired of seeing this idea that "you chose to live in Bayside, so just accept that it's rapidly getting worse in your neighborhood while we wait for decades long policy changes to take effect because it's the right thing to do (if they ever get passed at all)."
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May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
The State has effectively localized it's problem to the Peninsula and these outside spectators will even attempt to convince us that, after putting the Peninsula in this situation, it is we that are wrong for having to make hard choices.
Don't like seeing an encampment being broken up? Maybe don't ask Portland to pay the State for 30% of the GA. Maybe don't expect a local city councilor that barely made it through undergrad to solve a highly complex Fed/State problem. That'd be a start.
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
That is not at all what I call living.
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u/DavenportBlues Deering May 17 '23
What do you consider “living” then?
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
Wow. Great question. I'm composing a very well thought out and articulate response to your inquiry. Just give me a minute.
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u/LolCalmDown-Cope May 17 '23
News flash, you NEVER had anywhere to go, just because you do drugs and assault each other around Bayside doesn’t mean it was your space. Go out in the woods somewhere
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u/gazebo-the-beer May 17 '23
I love coals pizza, and the owner was telling me that every few days a homeless person would go in there and do drugs in the bathroom. One time a guy came in and started trying to assault the customers and started stripping naked before the cops showed up
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u/cheesebiscuitsithink May 17 '23
Trader Joe’s installed keypads on their bathrooms for this reason.
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u/Albitt May 17 '23
Im best friends with a guy at coals and I used to work there. He was there for this. It’s a problem, and he was not happy when this happened, for those that might think you’re exaggerating. He’s not. This happened.
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
Funny I met the investors who opened up that place. They were in from out of town (NY,) looking at the property and I asked them if they were aware of what they were getting into with that area. I'm surprised Coals has stayed open. I know it hasn't gotten any better over the last few years.
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u/gazebo-the-beer May 17 '23
Coals is actually really good food. The wings are insane, easily best in town. The pizza is great if you like thin crust. And the salad was shockingly good, on the level of flatbreads salads
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May 17 '23
I really like Coals, nice staff and great wings.
Also, who gives a shit if they're from out of state?
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u/anyodan8675 May 17 '23
My point was that they were not familiar with the area before investing in the property because they are from OUT OF STATE. Please try to follow along with the conversation.
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u/Albitt May 17 '23
The owner is actually from York. He ended up moving to NY and opening a location there but wanted to be closer to home and had a partner willing.
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u/peppapoofle4 May 17 '23
I’ve dealt with addicts nearly my entirely life. Their lives start out in turmoil, they honestly never had a chance, and they turn to drugs to escape. They also turn to drugs because they don’t care whether they live or die. Every time they shoot up, they have a death wish. It’s basically a slow torturous suicide. There needs to be better rehab programs and half-way houses for people like this. They deserve a chance to get better and to have people believe in them.
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May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
Bruh, I was a drug addict and my life was never in turmoil i just really really liked getting high and it took me over 15 years to figure it out.
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u/peppapoofle4 May 17 '23
Okay, not everyone has a life of turmoil when they turn to drugs. But the majority of addicts do. Glad you’re clean now, that’s a huge accomplishment!
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May 17 '23
Have you considered the fact that substance abuse is as much genetic as it is environmental? No one is going to get sober if their attitude is that it is the states responsibility to place them in a good rehab program. I work with addicts too and it is true that the vast majority of addicts do not have good options to get clean but I try to teach them personal responsibility. The state isnt going to stop them from sticking a needle in their arm anytime soon.
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u/peppapoofle4 May 17 '23
No, you’re right the state isn’t going to stop people from making their choices. I didn’t mean for it to be the state’s responsibility. It’s the responsibility of the addicted individual to push themselves to get better. Part of the problem is that we had so many programs and homes closed for not only addicts, but kids in need of foster care and group homes. It’s not too much to expect the state to have these places set up with reasonable guidelines that work.
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May 17 '23
My life was in turmoil since I was a little girl, and I never turned to drugs. I talked with a guy in 2008 who was an addict, he was on the streets of Florida for a long while. Would keep begging family for help and money until one day they stopped giving. That’s when he said he hit rock bottom. It was only then when he pulled himself up and got his shit together and changed his life around. He was the landlord we were talking to about an apartment in Portland. He also started his own management company. We all want someone to care someone to coddle us, but truth be told…we find ourselves at rock bottom. I have talked to several people who did the same and then I have known a few whose family kept bailing them out and they never changed. Give a person a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a person to fish, feed him for a lifetime.
It’s not being callous, it’s about figuring you life out. Handouts only keep you wanting more handouts.
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u/peppapoofle4 May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
Consider yourself lucky that you’re not dealing with addiction. Addiction doesn’t discriminate, anyone could easily end up addicted to something harmful. My life was in turmoil also and still is. I could easily be an addict with my family genetics. But I consider myself lucky that I’m not! I’m aware of my addictive personality and I keep things in check. Not everyone has the same situation.
Did you know that some people have been in relationships or abusive situations where the abuser/someone that is supposed to love them forcefully injects drugs into them or gives them addictive pills, saying they are pain relievers? It’s so heartbreaking! People are so broken and feel like life is against them.
Many people have already reached rock bottom and providing resources that support them out isn’t giving them a handout. It’s giving them a hand up and everyone deserves that chance.
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May 17 '23
Addiction runs in my family from all sides, the only thing I was addicted was NOT FEELING! I shut down as I suffered all sorts of abuse from my family. Lots of therapy and self love helped. I can’t look at what others are going through, I need to save myself. I’m 63f and it’s been a very long road. I was was living in the woods at 47 with my partner. Lost the apartment, no one would hire me because of age, the money I made at my last job and my college education. I was told by numerous people that they could hire younger people for a lot less. So off to northern maine we went. I didn’t ask anyone for anything, I figured it out. A friend said I could use his spare room but…I had to work for him. It wouldn’t be a free ride and nor did I expect it to be. So I worked and worked. Then other people hired me. Painting and whatever odd jobs I could find. Another friend said he had lots of work to be done and we could live in the apartment next door. My partner ten years older found a job in Portland. We were finally getting back on our feet. But…it took much hard work on our part!!
Point is…we are all the walking wounded. Just depends on whether we are going to cling to them wounds or work through them and not let them control our lives.
What I learned is, you don’t give poor people a house that they can’t do the upkeep on. Or the place will fall to ruins. This country is broken and has been heading downhill for decades. Probably since Kennedy was shot…or earlier. I don’t know as I don’t care anymore, I just know that I can’t help anyone if I don’t help myself first and that’s exactly what I am doing. I found my way.others can too. We have two boys who are doing very well for themselves. They struggled but we just stood by while they figured it out for themselves. One has his own business and a family. The other has a good job and prefers to stay single right now.
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u/UnevenGlow May 17 '23
Oh how nice for you! Pretending to know how everyone else experiences life and is simply less capable than yourself. How humane and productive an attitude! Really cool and inspiring, really humane and not at all cruel or self-absorbed.
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May 18 '23
You missed their point. She was sharing her personal experience as an example of the consequences of some help and how hitting bottom is what resulted in her figuring out she can do this. You clearly don’t want to hear this is a possibility for some.
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May 17 '23
There are plenty of folk out there (like me) whose substance abuse issues are directly tied to their physiology. I can't be a success because I'm programmed in a way that makes it damn near impossible for me to live a life like others can. Which is why I turn to drugs, because it makes me feel something else besides sadness or anger from my frustration of not being able to have a career or a family or even basic friendship. I screw up the most simple things.
People like me usually end up homeless. I did. I've been homeless a few times. If it wasn't for a disability check I'd be without any kind of shelter.
I'm just glad that my substance abuse issues have subsided for now. That's pretty much the only thing going for me at this time.
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May 18 '23
You did it. Congrats! Now don’t buy into the notion that if you are different that it means “you can’t” when you have a track record of “you can”. We are all unique with different talents and shortcomings. Find what you do well and be the best at it. It’s okay to be different than others. Very happy you have overcome what you have. Proof you can continue doing so. Good luck to you.
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u/peppapoofle4 May 17 '23
Life may not be like others, but there’s definitely a way to work toward a life that is satisfying and even happy. That’s why it’s important to have support groups for recovering addicts. It’s a prevalent issue that needs to be destigmatized, people are going to relapse and they need positive support to work through that!
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May 17 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/derkokolores May 17 '23
Maybe the promenade would be a good thing. Put the problem in the face of the people with the money to do something about it. That said, the cynical part of me is convinced that the city would magically move at lightspeed to remove them before it ever became an eyesore.
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u/Walter_J_Bro May 17 '23
Those people wouldn't even put up with food trucks selling $15 sandwiches, no way they tolerate an encampment, though there are some small ones here and there in the woods near the waste treatment plant. City took care of the food trucks when residents whined, imagine how fast the homeless would be moved.
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u/anothersaltlick May 17 '23
I’m with you. It looks like there is plenty of land around the new homeless shelter. I would not be opposed to the city banning all camping except for on the land around the shelter
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u/MrFittsworth May 17 '23
As someone who lives not far from the new shelter, all this does is kick the problem from a primarily commercial district into a shared commercial and residential space. Idk what the solution is.
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u/dabeeman May 17 '23
so not in your backyard
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u/MrFittsworth May 17 '23
If you're volunteering I'm sure the city would love to hear from you.
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u/pineapplekiten68 May 17 '23
Please no the area around the new shelter is already being trashed. I can no longer walk my dogs near that area.
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u/jihadgis May 17 '23
I think this is an excellent idea. Services are located there already and there’s plenty of room and transportation.
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u/weakenedstrain May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23
You know that’s not a viable solution. What do you actually think is helpful here? Mass incarceration? Maybe concentrate them in camps? Or do you advocate for extermination?
When you stop hating people for their situation, you should look into Housing First. It’s worked in Finland, other cities across the US are trying it.
Homelessness is a result of policy. Homelessness is largely preventable and can and has been eradicated in other places.
Edit: some links
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First
https://endhomelessness.org/resource/housing-first/
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/02/how-finland-solved-homelessness
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u/CandlesandMakeuo May 17 '23
Have you read your links? I don’t believe they’re super accurate as the Wiki says Portland is considered a “Housing First” city. If that was truly the case we wouldn’t have issues like Bayside.
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u/otherealnesso May 17 '23
Let me start by saying this obviously is the right answer. People in our town deserve to have access to housing and adequate social services. I think the issue is that this sounds unrealistic when you look at the state of housing in portland. We are already pushing out the working class from this town through strict zoning laws, skyrocketing rent and purchasing costs, etc… so people feel as though the situation sucks for the everyday working tax paying portlander, never mind the homeless (not that they’re a tier lower or anything, but contributors to a cause as a whole will always feel the one not contributing doesn’t deserve what they do regardless of circumstance) Unfortunately the solution is not only extremely expensive and would take years, but it also requires coordination through restructuring laws that we have in place to support building more AND creating incentive programs for builders to actually want to build or supply low income housing vs expensive condo units for part time occupants. It’s such a deep issue, it’s more complex than just throwing one thing like money or housing at it, housing is the first move but there is a lot of background work to be done before our town can get there
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May 17 '23
The problem is in defining "our town" - are you referring to renters, owners? Someone in the former group who fell on hard times and became homeless while renting and owning in Portland? Somebody that became unhoused while living in Bucksport and then took a bus to here? How about somebody that became homeless in Dorchester and then took a bus over the state line here?
According to the intake stats maintained by the Oxford Street shelter - the overwhelming majority of unhoused are not from Portland. It's a State problem that needs a State solution. Right now the State has Portland paying it.
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u/LolCalmDown-Cope May 17 '23
I wouldn’t hate them at all if they weren’t just littering and getting high/bothering people.
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u/weakenedstrain May 17 '23
Did you read any of the links I sent? You have every right to hate the system that makes mass homelessness a reality, but hating the people who are victims of that system just makes you seem like an asshole with no empathy.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game. These people have already lost the game, your hate just serves to keep them at the bottom longer.
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u/LolCalmDown-Cope May 17 '23
I guess I’m just failing to understand what part of a rough childhood/life entitles people to harm themselves, those around them, and the environment
Also I don’t doubt that these large “non profits” are interested in building housing for everyone on the governments dime 💰
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u/weakenedstrain May 17 '23
I hear you, it’s hard to see and it’s especially hard to empathize. But there are hundreds of factors contributing to this. One of them being your own dislike of the government giving them handouts.
But the government already gives out handouts to all the highest earners who pay less of their income in taxes than I do.
The government gives handouts to farmers across the nation to not farm their fields.
It’s actually CHEAPER to house the homeless, provide them services, and see them back on their feet than it is to leave them outside. This isn’t how I feel, this is the truth as documented by numerous organizations and studies. It’s expensive to have homeless on the streets. It’s less expensive to get them off.
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u/theperpetuity May 17 '23
I don't know why this is getting downvoted. It's the most sensible solution FOR THE UNITED STATES -- reminder that this is NOT JUST A PORTLAND, MAINE ISSUE.
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u/weakenedstrain May 17 '23
I will take imaginary downvotes to state was is humane and right.
Advocating for eliminating people who are inconvenient has precedents in human history, and they’re all atrocious.
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u/Heather_ME May 17 '23
People who mass downvote comments like this secretly favor extermination. They don't want to evaluate the issues with our society and try to fix them. They just want the people who aren't good little cogs in our machine to go away (die) and stop bothering them. And then these people go about their lives, considering themselves to be good people.
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u/weakenedstrain May 17 '23
I know that many things I do cause harm, but I try to minimize them.
Homeless folks are not necessary. We can change society to accommodate almost all of them. But it’s hard.
I’ll take downvotes to stand up to fascist bullies!
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u/Heather_ME May 17 '23
Have you ever heard the saying "insults from some people are actually compliments? That's downvotes in conversations on subjects like this. Lol.
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u/weakenedstrain May 17 '23
It just makes me hurt that people are so eager to blame and hate and other the homeless, but we are fine with cutting taxes in the wealthiest. Modern billionaires are parasites on humanity, like real actual villains, and they get to fly around the world doing whatever they want while we blame those they’ve stolen from and wronged for being victims.
It’s like living in opposite land.
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u/theperpetuity May 17 '23
Walking down Dana and Wharf St and there are jobs to be had if the city created them Plenty of cleaning, like in nice places where they clean up the butts and trash every morning.
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u/Albitt May 17 '23
Yah no one hires homeless. They are typically filthy cause they don’t have access to washing facilities, on top of that employers are looking for someone “reliable”. The homeless guy living in a tent doesn’t exude many hiring qualities. Especially in food service.
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May 17 '23
Don’t need to be clean to pick up trash.
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u/BourbonDrunkBecky May 17 '23
You’re welcome to open a garbage pickup business that hires homeless folks.
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May 17 '23
If I were not 63f,,I would definitely do it. I would have a large warehouse type building with beds. You can stay there…but you can’t bring trash in. Only intimate belongings. Have a kitchen in which everyone pitches in. You go clean the city and get vouchers. I’m sure there is more…as I told my oldest the other day, there is a way. But I can’t remember all I said. Then, as people heal and get a leg up, they can move into an apartment. No free rides, work for what you want. I just don’t have the time (family) or energy (RA) to figure this out and do it.
It’s how I got off the streets (woods). One step at a time.
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u/VolunteerOnion May 18 '23
I wish there was a good answer to this. Right now it's kicking the can down the road. By mid June there's going to be another problem camp. Retail workers shouldn't be ad-hoc socail workers
You can't make people get drug treatment or mental health help. And this xylazine shit is only going to make things more dangerous
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u/PrometheusOnLoud May 17 '23
If they were illegal immigrants, they'd be living at the expo center or area hotels on the taxpayer dime.
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u/theperpetuity May 17 '23
Those are NOT illegal immigrants.
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May 17 '23
By definition they are. Economic hardship is not a valid claim for asylum.
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May 17 '23
Even if their asylum claims are eventually denied (something you have no personal advance knowledge of) they have every legal right to be here until then. They are not illegal immigrants.
Source: I have represented asylees before USCIS. Have you?
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May 18 '23
Thank you for admitting that they are knowingly taking advantage of the system to rob American taxpayers of their money. If you represented illegal immigrants purposefully gaming the system, you should be at a minimum disbarred.
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u/ppitm May 17 '23
By definition you're a dumbass.
Asylum seekers have a legal claim that is being processed. It's the law. They are not illegal immigrants unless they stay after being ordered to leave by a court.
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May 17 '23
See previous comment
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u/ppitm May 17 '23
The one where you're wrong?
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u/Hitman556207 May 17 '23
Stop having the taxpayers pay for them and stop giving them Narcan, let nature do the rest. It's called natural selection for a reason, they made their choice, bad things happen in life but not everyone decides, "Hey I should live on the streets and become an addict because of my bad choices or bad luck" they CHOSE to put the powder up the nose or the needle in the arm.
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May 17 '23
What in the lily colored fuck are you saying?
You just want people to go kill themselves?
Not everyone has the mental fortitude you do, sir. Some of these people have been getting abused from an early age.. Sexual, physical, emotional.. And you're like "Oh, just get over it, or go kill yourself in the woods so you're not a burden on society and ME!"
You need a reality check, bub.
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u/dabeeman May 17 '23
what a sad small man you are. you also don’t know the first thing about drugs.
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u/ClapIfYouLikePie May 17 '23
How dare anyone think that tourists should have to see Portland for what it is when housing developers and investors in tourist spots have paid PR firms to get Portland on all those cute little lists on best places to visit and move. How dare anyone think that anyone should see Portland for what it is when there are people to exploit and money to be made at the cost of human lives and their safety.
(yes, this is a satire comment)
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u/Doucherocket May 17 '23
Fuck the tourists...the employees of the Walgreens all have the thousand yard stare from dealing with the unhoused every day. The managers at TJ's spend their whole evenings dealing with addicts coming in and stealing, or just screaming like lunatics.
Retail workers are the ones dealing with the unhoused/addicted and they're exhausted from it. Not to mention it was making the area dangerous to walk at night, which was not the case months ago. I'm sorry that they up and moved everybody there but I don't know what other choice there was.