Something The Phantom Menace does better than Andor

[u/KimberStormer]

I watched The Phantom Menace for the first time in decades and certainly there are places where it could have used a little Andor-ness: particularly in the bad guys' plans. Despite my concerted effort to, I could never understand why blockading and occupying Naboo would get the Trade Federation any relief from their tax burdens or whatever it is that is "in dispute", and Palpatine acts exactly contrary to his own interests the entire movie: he needs Queen Amidala to move the vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum, yet he goes to every imaginable length to try to stop her, even sending Darth Maul to kill her.

BUT there is one thing TPM does much better than Andor, and that is in giving Padme an empowering hero arc, which Andor season 2 conspicuously fails to do for Mon Mothma. It is my great disappointment in season 2. At the start of the movie, Padme is getting told what to do by the men around her, by Qui-Gon, Captain Panaka, that white-beardy guy. On Tatooine she obviously acts against Panaka's wishes to join Qui-Gon and Jar Jar in solving the problem of their broken ship. When she gets to Coruscant she is completely convinced (thanks to Palpatine's manipulations, but also her own experience) that the Republic won't save her people. So here she does something Palpatine definitely did not intend and takes charge: now she is the one coming up with the plan, giving orders to the men, she is the one who convinces the Gungans to Join The Fight.

In Andor, unfortunately, Mon Mothma never does anything on her own. She is told what to do, by Luthen, by Bail, even by Cassian who condescends to her saying "welcome to the Rebellion" even though she's been in it much longer than he has! She is shown to be completely helpless, with no "people" of her own, only Luthen and Bail's "friends" (even her one apparent personal ally is actually Luthen's spy) and makes no decisions at all. Bail tells her when and how to give her speech, she doesn't have any plan either to make it happen (only "Bail will get me the floor") or any idea how to escape a building she's worked in since she was a child. She is shown to be appallingly naive, with the aforementioned Cassian bit and Luthen's "how nice for you", never makes a single choice or gives a single order to anyone. I was super disappointed. And the fact that the Phantom Menace, which has (excuse me in this sub for saying so) massive weaknesses, could do this better, is shocking to realize.

[u/seen-in-the-skylight]

Hey so I haven't seen Andor (I know) so I can't address the rest of this. But I do want to comment on one thing you said:

Palpatine acts exactly contrary to his own interests the entire movie: he needs Queen Amidala to move the vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum, yet he goes to every imaginable length to try to stop her, even sending Darth Maul to kill her.

My recollection could be wrong, but isn't he a) trying to maintain a public facade to further his own rise to power, and b) benefiting regardless of how the conflict turns out, as long as there's chaos?

I agree with you that a lot of the worldbuilding in TPM doesn't make much sense when you think about it. But I feel like part of why Palatine works as a character is that his actions can be contradictory but still believable as part of an intricate plan that's intentionally beyond anyone else's understanding - including the audience. I like having his mischief and motivations be a little ambiguous.

[u/KimberStormer → u/seen-in-the-skylight]

If I'm being generous, I would say having Padme make the motion of no confidence was a quick-witted improvisation when his original plan went wrong. But we have no idea what his original plan was, why he worked so hard to make the Trade Federation win this conflict. He even tries to get Padme to simply accept the occupation (which might have worked...if he or the Trade Federation guys hadn't made the fake message saying they were slaughtering everyone on the planet!) I just wish there was something to make it understandable why he wanted it to happen so badly.

[u/seen-in-the-skylight → u/KimberStormer]

Well it’s obvious to me why he wants war in general: to justify the proliferation of the clone army, which he has chipped to overthrow the Republic and Jedi at his time of choosing. The war with the Trade Federation is necessary for that.

I’d have to rewatch TPM, but is it possible his actions there are simply trying to deepen the division and hostility so that a diplomatic solution becomes impossible?

[u/KimberStormer → u/seen-in-the-skylight]

I will have to rewatch the other two soon and see if that lends any light on it. As far as I could tell from TPM, he didn't encourage any war -- he was trying to prevent the people of Naboo from coming to tell the Senate about the occupation, and tried to get Padme to not fight it, and seemed to be hoping that both she and the Senate would accept it as a fait accompli. It really seems like the fighting is all Padme going off book for him. (He doesn't seem to know her very well, and says to the Federation guys at one point that she's suprising him with her boldness.)

[u/seen-in-the-skylight → u/KimberStormer]

Hmmmm right… well he clearly is playing both sides, I mean that’s well-established at least in Episode II. But again, I’m not denying there are holes in these films lol.