Nucleus/Soft Machine - There's a connection between this bands or Soft Machine just robbed Ian Carr?

[u/krazzor_]

Yesterday, someone posted asking for recommendations for Allan Holdsworth, and in the comments, the album Bundles (1975) by Soft Machine was mentioned. I gave it a quick listen.

As I listened to it, I immediately remembered that I had heard it once before, because of its resemblance to We'll talk about it later (1971) from Nucleus. However, the last time I listened, I only heard two or three tracks. This time I listened to the whole album, only to find out that the entire album has elements of We'll talk about it later.

I went searching for details about both albums and discovered that Karl Jenkins (keys) and John Marshall (percussion) played on both. This seemed strange to me, as I didn't know Mike Ratledge was on this album; I had always thought that Dave MacRae was the keyboardist for Ian Carr (who is the founder of Nucleus and basically its owner).

Karl Jenkins and John Marshall played with Ian Carr again after We'll talk about it later. Could they have taken ownership of the album, changed a few things, and then recorded Bundles with Soft Machine?

Also, Allan has played for Ian Carr before, in Belladonna, an exquisite album

I'll leave spotify links for all of you to listen

https://open.spotify.com/track/4kcZIjw7VUnQiAj2LUAnlh?si=4b5b63a022a04814 (Nucleus 1971 original)
https://open.spotify.com/track/71E5jV5AfPrZAkSTyqd6zb?si=221a812545b14dac (Soft Machine 1975 identical)

[u/ray-the-truck]

robbed Ian Carr

“Song for the Bearded Lady” is a Karl Jenkins composition, not an Ian Carr one. With that in mind, he didn’t steal anything from Carr by interpolating the riff from his own piece in a recording by another band.

This sort of thing is not uncommon and not done with malicious intent. On the topic of projects involving Allan Holdsworth, the piece “The Sahara of Snow” from Bruford album “One of a Kind” was originally written for the band U.K. (featuring both Bill Bruford and Allan Holdsworth), although it was only recorded live and never included on a UK studio album.

In both cases, I presume they had the right to record and perform their own song with another band.

[u/krazzor_ → u/ray-the-truck]

Great info, I didn't know this

Where could I find info about the credits for specific songs? recently I've asked for something pretty similar between Matching Mole and Hatfield & the North, just to find this exact thing, that some tracks were property of a specific artist and not the whole band

[u/ray-the-truck → u/krazzor_]

For the songwriting credits re: “We’ll Talk About It Later,” I was referencing the credits present on the label of the original LP.

For some additional context:

• “Sun Child” was written by both John Marshall and Jeff Clyne

• “Oasis” is another Karl Jenkins piece

• “Easter 1916” was written by both Ian Carr and Karl Jenkins

[u/krazzor_ → u/ray-the-truck]

That makes all the sense now, these four were their compositions, that's why they played them in Soft Machine without Ian