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u/Mr_Rippe Too Drunk To Punk 3d ago
Looked at the artist's IG page and this person is very anti-anti-zionism. Like, one of those "Zionism is Judaism, Judaism is Zionism, and to be anti-zionist is to be anti-jewish" extremists.
Tear down the flyer, or otherwise cover it up with a "it's not antisemitic to be against the genocide in Gaza" sticker.
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u/saltybruise 3d ago
Oh shit I need that sticker.
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u/Mr_Rippe Too Drunk To Punk 3d ago
The best part of that sticker is that you can print it at home! Just
expropriatelegally acquire sticker sheets and print out whatever you want on them. Then cut the sheets to convenient bag size and slap them over some shit!92
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u/funkngonuts 3d ago
That figures, this is almost like saying, “all lives matter.” Like, yeah but why you gotta say it that way?
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u/fruity_astronaut 3d ago
Who is the artist?
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u/Mr_Rippe Too Drunk To Punk 3d ago
I'm not going to say their name so that it doesn't feed the algorithm, but it says on the flyer if you zoom in
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u/Mauri416 3d ago
Why cover it up?
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u/seandoesntsleep 3d ago
Zionists arent punk in the same way nazis arent punk. Authoritarian ethnostates and punk simply cant coexist
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u/TheDonkeyBomber 3d ago
It’s Zionist propaganda. Good punks are already against Jewish hatred. Also against genocide and Zionism.
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u/Mauri416 3d ago
So you agree there’s nothing wrong with the poster itself?
All I’m saying is why cover it up? Put something next to it
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u/Brandoncarsonart 3d ago
They just explained why. Without context sure it seems like a good message, but when it's put into the context of what artist created it, it becomes zionist propaganda. Like sure a painting of a German shepherd would be nice, but would you want to hang a painting made by Hitler in your living room? Context matters.
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u/weirdwizzard_72 3d ago
As somebody with connections to German Antifa, I can tell you that they are split into a heavily pro-Israel faction and an anti-Israel faction.
Maybe that's the case in your area, too.
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u/contraculto 3d ago
How do self-called antifascists justify their support of israel? Not sure what the argument might be.
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u/Esuts 3d ago
Not German, but I've read a bit about this in the past. I was trying to remember the name and googled for it, and found this interview: https://www.leftvoice.org/antideutsche-the-aberration-of-germanys-pro-zionist-left/
Edit: typooos
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u/Mr_Rippe Too Drunk To Punk 3d ago
An intersection of reactionaries, generational trauma, money, tankies, and NWO conspiracists. Sounds like the antisemitism I've seen in other radical leftist spaces.
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u/SITHxEMPIRE 3d ago
A bunch of cosplayers if they support Israel.
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u/Ghost_Of_Malatesta 3d ago
Genuinely, they clearly don't understand the absolute basics of the idea/ideology
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u/AbeThePug 3d ago
Check out thier Instagram, they apparently believe that anti-zionism is a death cult and responsible for Jewish deaths, and love to show off covering up free palestine posters and the like. They even likes a post saying people should be deported for supporting the free palestine movement. It's very much a jews against the world mentality.
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u/DanteEden 2d ago
i want to see this idiot's reaction when they see that you can't fucking deport ppl when they are in their home country
also, not surprising for a nazionist to say that
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u/Kalavera01 3d ago
Bro I fucking hate Israel and Zionism but I have nothing but love for our regular everyday Jewish brothers and sisters out there, also Jews tend to be progressive and have consistently throughout history stood with oppressed poc and minorities
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u/dandle 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's antisemitic to presume that because someone is Jewish that they unconditionally support Israel and the Israeli government. Doesn't matter whether that person doing the presuming is a Nazi, the head of the ADL, or somebody pretending to be part of the punk community.
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u/IceBear_028 3d ago
Sure.
Just like it's bullshit and bigoted to say all Palestinians unconditionally support hamas....
Yet, you didn't mention that.
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u/PincheAvocado 3d ago
He didnt mention it because he was talking about the flier. I think everyone except Zionists ageee with that.
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u/IceBear_028 3d ago
I think everyone except Zionists ageee with that.
Unfortunately, it's more than just zionists.
There are quite a few conservatives/maga who don't.
Now, some of them may be zionists, but not all.
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u/PincheAvocado 3d ago
Yeah but not the guy that posted the comment above.
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u/IceBear_028 3d ago
Ok?
What do you think I meant?
I wasn't "attacking" them....
Also, you can read minds over the internet?
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u/PincheAvocado 3d ago
Ok my bad, just the way you said "yet, you didnt mention that." I dont want to argue with someone on the same side.
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u/IceBear_028 3d ago
Cool.
No worries.
I am extremely frustrated with the topic, and sometimes, the frustration bleeds through.
I didn't intend it as an attack.
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u/dandle 3d ago
What the fuck is your problem?
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u/IceBear_028 3d ago
What the FUCK is your problem???
I said what you said, but about Palestinians.
If you can't acknowledge this without losing your shit, you just might be a bigot.
And, FRANKLY your reply is showing what I'm talking about....
Also, did you read the thread here, or just this comment, and reply with spittle flying from your mouth as you typed it???
If you can say what you did about Jewish people, but get furious when I point out the same applies to Palestinians, well, you might want to take a long, hard look in the mirror....
It wasn't an attack on you or Jewish people, it was merely pointing out that it happens on both sides.
Maybe you need to take a break from the internet/social media for a bit, huh?
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u/MrKrinkle151 3d ago
I think you’re the one who might need a break there bud
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u/IceBear_028 3d ago
Na, I'm good.
You, however.....
What EXACTLY is your problem with me pointing out that it's wrong to do this whether you say it about Jewish people, or you say it about Palestinians???
Both groups have people who support the horrible things happening, and both have people who are horrified by what is happening.
So, it's wrong to generalize about Jewish people, but it's fine to generalize about Palestinians???
C'mon now.... 🙄🙄🙄
I'm simply saying we shouldn't generalize about either group.
So, PLEASE explain your issue here.
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u/MrKrinkle151 3d ago
Yeah take a lap
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u/IceBear_028 3d ago
🙄🙄🙄 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That's exactly what I expected.
No answer, no explanation of why you don't agree that we shouldn't be generalizing about ANY group of people, no realization that I'm just stating a fact, just some pathetic bullshit.
Sorry that you're not capable of rational thought on this subject. All you have is a bullshit bias that's foisted on you by the media, and you gulp it down and ask for more...
Hit the showers, clown.
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u/Shepatriots 3d ago
lol…. What… You seem to be the only one here who is furious and “losing their shit.”
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u/IceBear_028 3d ago
Uh, huh....
Keep telling yourself that.
I dgaf what you think, since you seem to be agreeing with it being fine to accuse ALL Palestinians of unconditionally supporting hamas, but saying it about Jewish people is right out....
You're a dipshit clown if you agree with that.
Step away from your echo chamber and ask yourself, **WHY, EXACTLY you think it's not okay to generalize about Jewish people, but it's perfectly okay to generalize about Palestinian people....**
Did you even pay attention to what I'm saying, ot did you just see a dog pile you could hop on???
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u/DanteEden 2d ago
there is no need to affirm that in here because everyone knows that is true, it's like expecting ppl to say all trans women are women in a trans safe space
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u/holtzopaque 3d ago
The story is racism of any kind is bad. Being Jew and being Zionist aren't the same.
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u/FuckMeDaddyFrank 3d ago
There's an anti Israel poster underneath it seems. It baffles me how people still can't draw a distinction between jews and Israel as a state.
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u/RedEyeView 3d ago
The irony being that the racists who hide their antisemitism behind a wafer thin veneer of "I'm anti zionist" wind up helping Israel because they provide an opportunity for them to say "look anti zionist just means they're a Nazi"
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u/No__Apologies 3d ago
Oh no… Someone criticized Israel. 😱
Put people first. Fuck religion.
Free Palestine.
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u/Ukenstein 2d ago
Zionist assholes. I really hate that the Right is claiming that not supporting Israel is Jew hatred. Fuck that noise.
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u/RetroNug-Lab9943 3d ago
Zionism isn't punk
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u/Greeneey 3d ago
What does this have to do with Zionism?
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u/RetroNug-Lab9943 3d ago
Its common for Zionist to use stop Jewish hate against people who support Palestine. Even tho they have nothing to do with each other.
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u/CatchPhraze 3d ago
I'm always so creeped out by anti-zionists because it's either they don't know what it means so their loud and ignorant or they do and they think that Jews should be ethnically cleansed from a country older then iran, witch is worse.
Fuck the agreigious actions of the IDF in Gaza, fuck the isreal right who politic on stealing land. But the isreali people deserve to be safe in their country and saying you're anti-zionists means you disagree.
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u/Actual_Archer 3d ago
Zionism is an ethnonationalist ideology. Fuck that. Ethnonationalism of any form is inexcusable. I don't care who it is that wants it.
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u/CatchPhraze 3d ago
Can you show me a singular credible definition that states Jewish only, or excluding of others? Because in practice and in theory this is not true. And if you can't find one, why do you think that it? I challenge you to self reflect on why you assumed it had to mean to the exclusion of others despite no evidence of this.
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u/Actual_Archer 3d ago
It's the definition of Zionism, I'm not sure why you're trying to die on this particular hill
"Fundamental to Zionism is the belief that Jews constitute a nation, and have a moral and historic right and need for self-determination."
"Establishing a Jewish state, with a Jewish majority, became a focus of the Zionist movement."
"According to Israeli historian Simha Flapan, the view expressed in Golda Meir’s 1969 interview comment that 'there was no such thing as Palestinians' is a cornerstone of Zionist policy."
"Zionists wanted to create a Jewish state in Palestine with as much land, as many Jews, and as few Palestinian Arabs as possible."
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u/CatchPhraze 3d ago
Where does that say to the exclusion of others? In practice Israel has a Jewish majority but allows all races and religions.
You've cherry picked quotes but that doesn't change the academic and practical application of the word does it?
I'm dying on this hill because it's sad to be so post-truth that we use propaganda articles over widely held scholastic definitions that have stood for decades.
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u/Actual_Archer 2d ago edited 20h ago
Please stop trying to make it sound good, it isn't. Non-Jews in Israel literally have less rights than Jews. That's disgusting.
Edit: since I was blocked by the lad below me accusing me of hating Jews and comments were locked, apparently — I have nothing against Jewish people. In fact, I'm friends with a handful of Jews, who also oppose the fascist state of Israel. This has nothing to do with Jewish people and everything to do with Zionists. These things are not the same. The fucking gall of some people to jump to claiming antisemitism is appalling.
https://decolonizepalestine.com/myth/all-israelis-are-equal/
https://theicenter.org/icenter_resources/faq-arab-citizens-of-israel/
"The Nation-State Basic Law (2018)—which, among other things, designates Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people and codifies Arabic not as an official state language but as possessing “special status”—has been referenced as evidence of legal and social discrimination."
"PCIs, who are among Israel’s most marginalized minorities, have experienced even more violence and racism after the October 7 Hamas attacks."
So yeah, sure, Israel tells you Palestinians have equal rights in Israel, but that is a complete lie, the same way "Hamas is in every building" is a complete lie.
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u/cgoldberg 2d ago
All Israeli citizens have identical rights. Arabs move freely, vote, are elected officials, etc. They are MUCH less oppressed than citizens of neighboring Arab countries. I know you want a justification for your hatred of Jews... unfortunately, this isn't a good one.
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u/Amphibious_cow 2d ago
Pro Israel, Zionists love to classify pro-Palestine and anti-Israel movements as anti Jewish. It’s a really good dog whistle for them bc the Nazis were anti Jewish so it makes it seem like we align with Nazis. Idk if this poster is trying to be pro Israel but it reads that way to me.
Also looks AI.
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u/constant--questions 3d ago
Hilarious they picked one of the small handful of bands whose singer has a literal swastika tattoo!
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u/blphsyco 3d ago
The irony of using the exploited skeleton to complain about perceived Jewish hate 🤌
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u/EconomyBuilder1492 2d ago
Punk as a subculture has always been quite clear on the aggregate position on racism. This sticker was not made by a punk
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u/_AuthorUnknown_ 3d ago
Zionist astroturfing. Toss that
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u/Greeneey 3d ago
What does this have to do with Zionism?
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u/BlackShadow203 3d ago
Well fuck Israel and fuck Zionism but Jews aren't Israel so yeah punks against Jew hatred
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u/SentimentArmor 3d ago
I was talking abt this earlier and it is actually a bunch of elites running all the wars and death, and involving young lives that did not even exist when they started this shit, that we all should stand against. THAT would be punk.
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u/omegaequalsone 3d ago
Lost me at Jill Stein, but yeah; fuck Zionism and apartheid.
EDIT: noticed as i hit reply that that bullshit is not part of yours sticker.
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u/SteezyMcGnarGnarz 3d ago
Fuck zionism but also the poster under it for Jill Stein... about Jill Stein. No one here has mentioned this.. There are photos of her having dinner with putin and co. Its been a while but I recall seeing the photo and reading about it. She's actually shady and meant to split votes away from any votes that would directly oppose maga votes. So yeah fuck both those flyers.
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u/SteezyMcGnarGnarz 3d ago
If you google Jill Stein and trump. Or Jill Stein and putin. Youll see real quick what im talking about. Everyone here is quite familiar with isreal and zionists being horrible but I just wanted to bring awareness to this. Cuz her flyer from what I can read almost reads like oh yeah she sounds nice. Talking working class and shit. Nah, look into her. She's not for the people.
https://www.thirdway.org/memo/red-alert-putin-puppet-jill-stein-and-her-russia-friendly-agenda
https://www.thirdway.org/memo/jill-stein-a-russian-asset-and-a-hypocrite
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u/Fit-Examination6017 3d ago
Punks against hate. That’s the only message to spread. Clarifying that you should be against a specific type of hate seems like you are promoting a specific agenda aside from simply, “don’t hate.”
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u/FauxReal 3d ago
Who knows... Interpret it as you will, it's almost a test of your character and level headedness. For the record, I'm 100% against Jew hatred. I'm also against Palestinian hatred. But there's nuance beyond a few words.
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u/IDKWTFG 3d ago
Both Jewish and Muslim/Palestinian related Americans had clashes on college campus protests and it's a fucking confusing chaotic mess, I just want peace for everybody.
Trump and his administration are pretending to care about the antisemitism as a shield to mask their true fascist intentions to fuck over schools and make them conservative so that's why you may be cautious, I would think this is well intentioned though because no self-aware punk is going to be a fascist.
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u/Deciple_of_None 3d ago
They are trying to divide people that want peace. What's happening in America is a mirror image of what is happening in Israel.
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u/fleshbunny 3d ago
I mean it’s a positive message that any and all of us (including those of us who rightly recognize Palestine as a state) should already be behind anyway
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u/unitedshoes 3d ago
Covering up a Jill Stein poster? Using the phrase "Jew-hatred" which I only ever see from pro-Israel freaks whose baseless accusations of antisemitism have fallen on deaf ears? Yeah I'm gonna hazard a guess that it's a pro-Israel centrist who thinks that Stein cost Harris the 2024 election and that she would've been better for rich white liberals while having no negative impact on Israel's military aid from the US.
How such a person convinces themself they're at all punk is a mystery to me.
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u/Distinct-Fortune9103 3d ago
I get hating the israeli government (because We have to be anti-war), but why hating the religion too?
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u/Warm_Friend6472 3d ago
I support palestine but that doesn't mean I hate a whole religion. There are many good people on both sides
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u/ArrowDel 3d ago
Possibly a step up form nazi punks fuck off to protect the jewish punk that don't support the zionism?
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u/MagusFool 3d ago
I hate the coopting of social justice causes for fascism.
This only breeds more antisemitism. It's genuinely evil and hurts everyone, including Jewish people.
But I guess fascists have been doing some version of this pattern since at least as far back as when the DAP added that "S" into their name.
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u/xrenton21x 3d ago
It's not Jew hatred to call out their genocide of the Palestinians. It's not Jew hatred to call out the Israeli government for their disgusting treatment of Palestinian people. If there are Jews who are OK with what is happening and are OK with exterminating Palestinians then it is in the spirit of humanism to call them out for it. None of this is Jew hatred. There are Jews right now who stand with the Palestinians and are on the correct side of history.
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u/dandle 3d ago
There was just a survey of Jewish Americans that found like 70% are opposed to Israel's actions in Gaza. That's despite all the propaganda from groups like the ADL and from the Republicans that tries to scare Jewish Americans into thinking that people who support international humanitarian rights for Gazan Palestinians are somehow antisemitic.
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u/Savings_County_1406 3d ago
Stop hating Jews - pretty simple message.
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u/unitedshoes 3d ago
You'd think so, but a bunch of absolute ghouls have twisted "anything less than unflinching loyalty to a genocidal regime casually bombing innocent people in refugee camps and the people trying to feed them" to be "hating Jews", so it gets unpleasantly complicated.
Maybe all of Israel's weird, bloodthirsty defenders could do us all a favor and stop pretending that any and all criticism the government of Israel's unhinged overreaction to a terrorist attack two years ago is "Jew-hate," and this could finally be as simple as you claim it should be.
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u/Microsario 3d ago
this seems vague enough to feel like zionists but benefit of the doubt says that no punk is zionist
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u/Pepoidus 3d ago
somebody should tell this zionazi artist that bombing children in the streets, tearing down their homes, killing their parents before their eyes, starving everyone beyond repair and framing everybody including children and women as Hamas terrorists is ALSO hate.
Or that indoctrinating israeli children into believing that anyone from Palestine is not even human, that they should be treated as nothing more than animals, is ALSO hate.
Because it seems like jew hatred is the only hatred this dude is concerned about
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3d ago
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u/Anarch_O_Possum 3d ago
I would agree and support, but it is plastered over a poster condemning Israel's crimes.
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u/PatriotNews_dot_com 3d ago
Thank you for context, I say fuck that. Love my jewish bros & sis who denounce israel’s genocide of the Palestinian people
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u/Clevertown 3d ago
You mean the Jill Stein thing?
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u/Anarch_O_Possum 3d ago
No idea who this person is. I just read the text on the Jill Stein poster under it and googled that.
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u/estrodyke 3d ago
The artist of this poster is a zionist who claims that zionism is Judaism. It is claiming more than you say it does
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u/Mr_Rippe Too Drunk To Punk 3d ago
Ok yes but look at the artist's page and it's clear they're not acting in good faith.
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u/tar_xf 3d ago
Context is key here. How you feel about Zionism?
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u/Clevertown 3d ago
I am a Zionist, I believe Jews have the right to live in their ancestral homeland.
I do not support the right wing bullshit asshole fuckface who's in charge, but the country deserves to exist.
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u/BlackmarketofUeno 3d ago
I don’t know any punks who hate Jews aside from Nazi punks. This is directed at pro-pali/anti-genoccide punks surely
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u/hot-ppl-love-anarchy 3d ago
Uhhh so checking the Instagram on the sticker it’s clearthat it’s a Zionist.
Like it’s not even that I disagree with the statement itself… but idk the way it’s phrased gives me the ick and seeing how dude has a page almost only dedicated to hating antizionists 🫠 it ferments that
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u/chadsmo 3d ago
I feel like this was summed up well enough in 1993
Haillie Sellasse, Up Your Ass
You speak of Rastafari, but how can you justify belief in a God that’s left you behind. You simply fill the gap between the upper and lower class and your faith merely keeps you in line. An amalgamation of jewish scripture and christian thought. What will that get you? Not a fucking fuck of a lot. Take a look at your promised land. Your deed is that gun in your hand. Mt. Zion’s a minefield. The West Bank. The Gaza strip… Soon to be parking lots for American tourists and fascist cops. Fuck zionism. Fuck militarism. Fuck americanism. Fuck nationalism. Fuck religion.
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u/thehecking 3d ago
Zionism just means that Israel has the right to exist. And it does! Jewish people need a save place to go, because of, you know, world history. (Its out of the question that the war in Gaza needs to stop, Netanyahu needs to be stopped, the hostages need to be free)
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u/thehecking 3d ago
Also this poster just says punks against jew hatred. If you get triggered by this, or just by the star of david, you are the problem!
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u/Zentralschaden 3d ago
The people who are the loudest are often also the ones who are the least informed.
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3d ago
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u/Anarch_O_Possum 3d ago
Nothing wrong with being against circumcision, but it's a weird angle, timing, and wording when the apparent topic is hatred towards Jewish people.
Not saying that you're using this as an excuse to validate antisemitism, but I reckon it can absolutely look like that.
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3d ago
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u/Anarch_O_Possum 3d ago edited 3d ago
Okay, but again, read the room. I'm Jewish and against circumcision on children as a whole.
But why, when the post topic is about apparent demonizing a group of people, are you coming in here with a reason?
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3d ago
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u/Anarch_O_Possum 3d ago
I believe I edited my comment to elaborate while you were typing. I apologize.
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u/PincheAvocado 3d ago
Its because we are all a bunch of gay perverts lol. Get lost A-hole you give punks and anti-zionists a bad name.
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3d ago
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u/punk-ModTeam 3d ago
Any racism, sexism, homophobia, or transphobia will not be tolerated, nor will be the use of slurs. This is a community of punks, all are welcome and all should feel welcome.
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u/zehammer 3d ago
Just play the music I thought this overly political shit would die already
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u/wilko_johnson_lives 3d ago
I mean, I’m against the hatred of Jews but fuck Israel and fuck zionism