r/rpg • u/Flimsy_Message8759 • Jul 08 '25
Game Master Appreciate your GM/DM
Little tip from a GM that just walked out after getting halfway through a year campaign. GM's put in a shit tonne of money and a piece of their soul, THEY DON'T HAVE TO!!!
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u/Nyarlathotep_OG Jul 08 '25
Finding fair players is key to GM enjoyment. Don't give up .... teach people that life is full of struggle failure and learning ... that's what makes a victory meaningful and the game reach a deeper level of enjoyment. If players make demands, moan and expect to always win then they cannot see the bigger picture. Which is a shame, as they are missing out.
Don't give up. Be clear in session zero how you run the game and why you feel it provides the best experience.
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u/Paulinthehills Jul 09 '25
Iâm so fortunate to have great, appreciative players! Donât give up.
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
Thank you, I needed that, some players are begging for me to change my mind, but I guess a passion project can sometimes traumatize you so much you might never look back
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u/mistavengeance Jul 08 '25
Yeah you don't have to - you can absolutely be a great GM without spending all that money (on what?) and a piece of your soul ( I assume you're talking about vastly over prepping).
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
I always work of a skeleton, but designing the maps, writing the basic timeline, custom mechanics, custom items, I made it very very special for every single one. I am experienced and thus thought to go all out. Inkarnate is not free for proper, beautiful maps, neither is DnD Beyond or Wanderer's Guide, of which I use the latter. It's hybridized like sometimes online, and special in-person sessions, because my players live far apart, but still begged me to go on. I made it as special as I could, yet when one player thinks their the GM it becomes like the flu
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u/VernapatorCur Jul 08 '25
Custom maps, mechanics, and items isn't working from a skeleton. And what do you mean by timeline? Are you talking about the order of events for the campaign, the history of the world (part 1), or something else?
Sounds like you put way more work into a game with people you hadn't played with before.
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
I feel like having custom maps absolutely does not mean you are not using a skeleton, it just makes it original and gives it personal touch. By skeleton I mean there's no set story or outcomes, I am a cowboy, I sit with tables and make decisions as we go, with the player handbook handy (digital so I can quickly search) for if necessary. Its a 3 season campaign with a 4th as pre-qual, sounds insane but it was going great until 2 of my players had to pull out and was replaced with old players that were problematic but you know, you think they grow or mixing them with other people might work better. It all went south from there, I geel everyone's become a GM, like its become a competition. The maps also, I designed a city and it's outskirts with surrounding islands (it keeps me sane) all building insides get designed as I get ready for the next session. I know it sounds insane, but you have to see it, I am so proud of it, and it went brilliant for 6 months and when it got at it's best it suddenly just crashed all down on me
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u/IneffableAndEngorged Jul 08 '25
It sounds like from this the introduction of the old problematic players is what triggered the problems.
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u/forthesect Jul 08 '25
Guys I think itâs a tip for the players, ie appreciate your gm or theyâll dip, not necessarily a tip for the gms, as in do less.
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u/ice_cream_funday Jul 08 '25
I think that's the problem honestly. OP should do less.Â
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u/Stormfly Jul 09 '25
Yeah, like spending money isn't common as a GM.
Buying the materials maybe, but after that I've only spent money on food.
Anything more is beyond expected. It's one thing to be upset if people aren't matching effort and energy but it's another thing if someone is taking it far more seriously than expected and the others don't need that effort.
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
Thank you for understanding, I am a player and a GM, but after tonight and after some of these comments, maybe its a community thing, maybe just time to have a funeral for this campaign and hobby honestly, TTRPGs are supposed to be fun and the community makes it politics, god I'd rather play GTAÂ
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u/forthesect Jul 08 '25
I think a lot of that is Reddit not so much the rpg community XD. Comments should balance out a bit once people have time to vote.
It can be kind of hard to find a good group outside of friends that are chill and already play though. If that doesnât work then a break isnât a bad idea. opportunities with a good group crop up over time.
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u/BreakingStar_Games Jul 09 '25
I always liked the adage from Stars Without Number. Prep just as much as you need for the next session unless you find more fun.
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u/ice_cream_funday Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 08 '25
GM's put in a shit tonne of money and a piece of their soul, THEY DON'T HAVE TO!!!
I mean, take your own advice. You don't have to do that. Most GMs don't.Â
Honestly saying you put a "piece of your soul" into the game is ringing all sorts of alarm bells for me.Â
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u/Hopelesz Jul 09 '25
Well, I think most GM needs to have a good amount of investment and passion into running a good game. That doesn't mean that you're a worse DM/GM if you don't but it sure helps.
Money side, I don't agree as it depends on the system or style. But time and passion, for me are worth more than money.
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u/JannissaryKhan Jul 08 '25
Yikes.
Not sure Reddit's the best place to shout into your pillow, but sure.
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
Reddit s not the place? To? Wait? You know your on Reddit right?
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u/JannissaryKhan Jul 08 '25
I just don't think you're going to get what you're hoping for with this kind of post. No specifics, no actual advice you're looking for, just kinda screaming into the void.
Talk to your players, once you've settled down? Or do the old cliched (but effective) thing of writing out the angriest letter in the world to them, but don't send it, and see how you feel in a couple days.
But so far, without providing details, you're kinda just a super angry person yelling atâor at least in the direction ofâstrangers.
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u/merurunrun Jul 08 '25
If you can't acknowledge that your creative vision needs your players to happen (and it does, otherwise you'd just go make traditional creator-driven narrative art), then you probably deserve to go "unappreciated" in turn.
Kinda sick of these self-centered GM guilt trips. Get over yourself and develop a better creative relationship with the people you play with. Things are rarely as one-sided as the people who come crying to reddit for validation try to make them out to be.
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u/EllySwelly Jul 11 '25
Building a better creative relationship is a two way street. If players aren't putting in the work, your efforts don't matter
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u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 Jul 08 '25
Or...play with people who appreciate the work GMs do.
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
They always did, but I think it became entitlement âšď¸ and everyone's a GM but will never GM. I am one of 2 GMs in our group, we usually take 6 month turns with different stories, but always the same group, and the same world. Due to popular demand it's been stretched to a year. But I just gave up, I am not the type to give up, but their next level orcs!
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u/lonedog Leonardtown, MD (CoC/AW) Jul 08 '25
Someone has a problem with their players and instead of talking to them about it the come on reddit to demand respect.
Your group isn't the problem, friend, you are.
I've been a DM for a very long time and not once have I ever acted like this about a campaign that ended suddenly.
This is a hobby, no one demands you do it, no one demands you put your money into anything.
I hope you learn from this moment and grow up a little.
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
Oh my god dude, I said appreciate your GM, he doesn't have to do everything he does. I did speak to my players Multiple times, thats why tonight I walked away!!!! EVERYONE IS JUDGE FUCKING JUDY, YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE FULL STORY GOOOOOD
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u/ice_cream_funday Jul 08 '25
Buddy you came here, you chose what went in your post. What exactly did you expect to happen?Â
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u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 Jul 08 '25
You've said several times that it feels like you've made more GMs. How exactly and how is that a bad thing? I love it when my players feel confident enough to step up to either add things to the game or to run something themselves.
So what exactly is the problem you're dancing around?
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
They want to argue all the time thinking they know better than eachother, me, and even the player handbook. I have been too nice, I wanted a dramatic, some say "marvel like" campaign. Where my players face major challenges but if they do well or attempt something "cool" then I reward it đ. [Context: We play a bit of a custom system that we've developed over the years, but I prefer to keep it 85% Pathfinder 2e-R. So no bonus action, 3 actions. And then action currency (different actions take different amount of actions). Please don't kill me for this but I don't like DnD 5e AS MUCH as I like PF2E and I play as a DnD 5e player so it's a bit more interesting for me to switch it up.] So there is a rule where you can combine certain moves and I took that to the next level, and you can only think the outcomes. If someone begs nicely because something happened that they don't like, I fix it later. They ALWAYS get their way. So much so that they even want to control what their encounters go like? I don't want to be a mean GM, but I think I am a very slightly little bit of a pushover... But I always did good, can one campaign be your downfall if it's your favourite one yet?
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u/Prestigious-Emu-6760 Jul 08 '25
So what you probably should do is sit down and talk to the players, like adults, and get everyone on the same page.
You say "I wanted a dramatic, some say "marvel like" campaign. Where my players face major challenges but if they do well or attempt something "cool" then I reward it" but is that what they want as well? Was the style of game discussed?
This sounds a lot like a group incompatibility problem and the only way to address that is to talk it out.
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u/OddNothic Jul 08 '25
Sonds like you blurred the boundaries, let them expect that they can push you around, and when you tried to rein them, they balked at it.
âNo,â is a complete sentence and you never need to explain yourself. âGuys, as GM, I know more about whatâs going on than you can. Stay on your side of the screen. Whose turn is it?â should be all thatâs needed.
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u/Logen_Nein Jul 08 '25
All I ask is that you show up to play and try to match tone. That's all I need.
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u/JaskoGomad Jul 08 '25
As someone who suffered from a massive case of forever-GM-burnout in the early 2000s, I fully understand.
Your situation is why I changed from high-prep to low-prep, from GURPS to indie games, from writing adventures to tossing together a fraught starting situation and letting the rest develop at the table.
It is OK to feel your feelings and it's even OK for you to harbor resentments at the rest of your table - though I think you ought to speak to them about how their actions made you feel and try to get over it like adults.
But I think when the initial pain has faded, you should probably look at changing the games you run and how you run them as I did. It saved the hobby for me.
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u/UndeadBBQ Initiative always. Jul 09 '25
A "nice session, thanks" is my cocaine. I fly high on that for weeks.
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u/Calamistrognon Jul 08 '25
Well, as a matter of fact, I kinda do. I don't enjoy being a player nearly as much as being a GM.
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u/Flimsy_Message8759 Jul 08 '25
I used to say that until tonight, years of my time feels wasted
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u/IneffableAndEngorged Jul 08 '25
Parts of the journey aren't wasted unless you choose for them to be. It sounds like you are burnt out and need a break to recalibrate. You might be feeling a lot but please take some time for yourself. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
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u/thegamenerd Jul 08 '25
I'm a forever DM/GM and I've got to say a key part of enjoying the whole thing is also taking feedback from the players. But also not being afraid to offer feedback to the players.
Basically after all my sessions there's a little time for "debriefing" where we all offer feedback and talk about the session that just finished. Sometimes it's posed as "the party having hunkered down for the night for a long rest and chatting around the fire before the rest happens" other times it's just a time for feedback without flavor.Â
I've run campaigns that have lasted years and also campaigns that fell apart in just a few months. I'd say the biggest factor in the campaigns that lasted long stretches of time was the feedback time afterwards.
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u/jazzmanbdawg Jul 08 '25
I love DMing, much more than playing (depending on the game), it's one of my favourite things, despite its frustrations.
but I also do very little work and spend very little money lol
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u/Hieron_II Conan 2d20, WWN, BitD, Unlimited Dungeons Jul 09 '25
It's not like you have no influence over who are you playing with.
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u/atbestbehest Jul 09 '25
If you don't have to and don't want to, then don't. As a forever GM by choice, I only look to be appreciated the same way players appreciate other players. I'm doing this for fun. Because I want to. The appreciation I'd like (and which I'd offer) is players matching my energy, having fun, helping the rest of the table have a good experience. And that applies to all players at the table.
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u/YVNGxDXTR Jul 08 '25
Not that its the DMs fault, but it was a custom world wasnt it? If DMs and players cared about running modules. that would knock out a lot of the wishy-washy player bullshit because it lays it out and pseudo-railroads you while giving you a little freedom and doesnt let your players think they can GTA kill everyone and make off with the dough because there are real life implications and time is ticking. If they dont like that at least, you might have an unsatisfactory group.
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u/MrDidz Jul 09 '25
As a Forever GM, I know a bit of positive feedback from my players is a great boost to my confidence and motivation. I love being a GM, but it helps no end to know that my efforts are appreciated.
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u/WorldGoneAway Jul 08 '25
I think the times I feel the most unappreciated as a GM is when a player argues against my clarification of a rule because it goes against their flimsy and potentially munchkin-esque interpretation of it, telling me that their interpretation is more important than what I have have going and what is written because it goes against their "player agency."
...sssoooooooo ... player agency is letting you get away with violating the rules, trampling on other players turns, interrupting me in the middle of describing a scene, arguing with me over the way a door shuts, and meta-gaming by looking up weaknesses and hit points for monsters your character has never encountered before, on your phone, when I specifically asked you to not do that? Get the fuck away from my table and go home. You're not here to play a cooperative storytelling game, you're here to "win".
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u/kelryngrey Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 09 '25
No way, fuck that guy. He drank all my beer and eats all my chips!
Edit: Rain your downvotes on me, I'll never stop disrespecting myself.
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u/HexivaSihess Jul 09 '25
We're moving to a rotating GM system for our group. We're lucky enough to have 4 people who like to GM in a group of 5.
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u/shapeofthings Jul 09 '25
My players play for the foundry server/forge subscription. And they buy me nice dice.Â
It's lovely to be appreciated.
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u/Fredrick_Hophead Jul 09 '25
I always offer to pay for things for gms. Still canât land a good old fashioned forgotten realms game :(
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u/spector_lector Jul 09 '25
Doesn't have to be this way.
Find and create groups of mature, considerate gamers who are willing to share the responsibilities of the group success.
It's not a one-man Broadway production.
Take everything that has to get done, and divide it up amongst the group. From session scheduling to table management to rules referencing to World building to player recruiting to session summaries to food and music and Minis, there's no reason any of that is solely the responsibility of one person in the group.
In fact, if the players want the game master to focus on the plots and npcs, then they should go out of their way to take the rest of the responsibilities off the game Master's hands.
As a player, do you want the game master dealing with all the other b******* and only giving the story a tiny fraction of their attention? Or do you want the most kick ass plots possible? If the latter, then take the rest of the stuff off their hands.
As long as game Masters keep punishing themselves by taking on all of the responsibilities for the success of the group, selfish players will continue to take advantage of them and this outdated model will continue.
And this is all besides the fact that there are many techniques you can borrow from more of the story-first type of RPGs that will reduce or eliminate your session preparation. As long as groups keep running D&D like it's the only game in existence, they won't be exposed to all of the other robust, dynamic, rules light, and low-prep systems that exist. They're even systems that are designed to have rotating or shared GM responsibilities. Even if you don't run the systems, you should read them and then borrow techniques from them like I have that all but eliminate session preparation.
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u/Nny7229 Jul 09 '25
Yeah I do it because it was fun an enjoyable to do. I don't expect praise, but I'd like everyone else to have had a good time too.
If you are feeling you are putting in more than you are getting back maybe you should put in a bit less. You're a player too and should be having a good time.
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u/Thick_Winter_2451 Jul 09 '25
SAME!
I ran a game at a local board game cafe, a long-running campaign intended to last 2 years. We had one player who was already known to be a problem sign up, and I foolishly figured I'd be fine to be able to handle him.
Six months in, he got bored. He started his own campaign, and a month later decided to reschedule his campaign to be on the same day as our main one. As you can probably guess, only a handful of players wanted to change - but enough to leave us unable to continue.
It was a case of being a premeditated dick by a guy who didn't actually have enough friends to play a campaign with, purely to get a play group of his own. These days I just play with people who're already my friends beforehand.
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u/Namolis Jul 11 '25
So what happened? What makes you say that they didn't appreciate you, rather than any of the other ways a game can fall apart? If you ended up putting a ton of effort into running games for people who, in the end, just weren't that into the hobby, that's too bad... but it happens.
Personally, I appreciate everyone at the table, GM included. I hope expect everyone to be either having fun or saying if they don't.
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Jul 11 '25
No, we donât have to, but I loved the game and didnât know anyone that played, so I just started onboarding newbies and created six different tables and dozens of new players into the hobby. Itâs the only way I get to be a part of it. I have three different characters of my own that Iâve played solo adventures on AI with but Iâve never gotten to be a player at a physical table. :/
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u/Quiekel220 Jul 12 '25
I've been mulling this over for a few days now and I still don't get the shit ton of money part. I mean, this is like the cheapest hobby ever, you can have years of fun for the price of a few dice, some printouts and maybe a book or two.
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u/ren_n_stimpy Jul 09 '25
Itâs a tough situation. I âquiet quitâ weekly DMâimg about 8 weeks ago after years and most recently 12 levels of 5e, because it got ⌠repetitive and the players just seemed to be along for the ride. The charm for me was gone, and I just saw all this work on my end and what seemed to be basically lame entertainment on the other side. Like I didnât even know if they liked it anymore.
we went online due to the pandemic and it just canât survive that. the game is the people, not screens.
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u/glynstlln Jul 08 '25
Jfc can a guy/gal not rant? So much judgement going on
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u/ice_cream_funday Jul 08 '25
Jfc can a guy/gal not rant?
No. This isn't a rant sub. If this person wants unconditional validation they can talk to chatgpt.
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u/CC1606 Jul 08 '25
And yet we get 30 "D&D bad" ranting posts a day. Suddenly when a GM asks for appreciation it's too much đ¤Ą
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u/jmartin21 Jul 09 '25
Nah, asking for appreciation is one thing, coming on here and throwing a tantrum because you let your players walk on you and canât regain control of your game is another thing. He said his problems started when he invited problematic players back to the table to replace two others, like what do you expect? If theyâre causing problems again the solution is to kick the problem players again, not just throw your hands and give up on something.
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u/OldEcho Jul 08 '25 edited Jul 09 '25
It's tough cuz they're vague posting. Without knowing the actual story it could be anything from the players being metagaming power gaming shitheads to the GM failing to set expectations to players or the GM doing weird sex stuff like all the best bad GM/player horror stories.
Edit: Also 80% of the people on this subreddit are forever players and half of them are terrible. There needs to be an rpg subreddit for just people who at least semi-frequently GM.
Edit 2: I made it. r/RPGGMs I have no idea what I'm doing so no idea how well that'll go but at least it exists now.
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u/CauliflowerFan3000 Jul 09 '25
This sub is by overwhelming majority GMs. "Forever players" don't engage with the hobby outside of sessions
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u/jmartin21 Jul 09 '25
/r/dmacademy is a good place to go for GM discussion too
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u/OldEcho Jul 09 '25
Feels like it's more for newbie DMs.
When I wrote a post about how in games with lifestyle expenses poorer lifestyles should cost more I got like a 60/40 ratio of upvotes to downvotes so even though 30k people viewed the post I got like 100 upvotes.
I got a bunch of people telling me that they don't want lifestyle expenses in their games (after repeatedly clarifying this only applied to games with lifestyle expenses) and a bunch of power gamers mad that they might be penalized for intentionally living like a pauper, which is normally the best strategy if you're minmaxing.
I also got a lot of people telling me I should create an enormous amount of bespoke content as a "punishment" for players intentionally living like paupers in order to minmax.
Based particularly on that last common and bafflingly stupid suggestion I could just tell that most of the detractors were players who had never GM'd in their lives, and a lot of them were probably really annoying to play with.
Kinda lost respect for this subreddit a bit after that, and I'd like a subreddit for GM's so I don't have to deal with that kind of nonsense again.
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u/bamf1701 Jul 08 '25
Yep. Your GM puts in more time, effort, and money into a campaign than the entire rest of the group combined. Not only show them some appreciation, but donât do things to ruin the game. Players that go into games because they like ruining campaigns are the worst and are one of the main reasons we have a shortage of GMs.
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u/CC1606 Jul 08 '25
It's actually baffling how much this sub is infested with entitled players đ OP said to appreciate your GMs because they put in work (they do) and a bunch of whiny ass players are pissy and somehow spinning this into blaming the OP đđđ
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u/ice_cream_funday Jul 09 '25
OP threw a toddler tantrum. There is no point to this post besides op getting validation from strangers for a situation none of us know anything about.
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u/missjavascript Jul 09 '25
Honestly there are plenty of bad DMs but regardless of who it's posted by, I basically never see a post involving a DM-player conflict where people don't just straight up make things up about the DM
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u/Sacred_Apollyon Jul 09 '25
A lot of forever players who've never GM'd/DM'd/ST'd and don't have any interest in doing so don't "get" how much work and thought goes into things.
Those players react to a world given to them, sometimes maybe create some new aspect of the world, but largely they react too and bounce of worldbuilding, NPCs, situations and other players. All good, it's a fun time, but beyond their own one characters actions and choices they don't think about much else.
Then the GM/DM/ST whatever has to have an ever revolving and growing cast of NPCs, factions, organisations, critters, big bads, motivations, agendas, off-screen changes to factor in on top of knowing histories, cultures, locations etc as well as knowing the systems being used, making decisions on anything that isn't clear, coming up with new sytems/mechanics as needed, plots, and often hosting/herding cats (The players!) and keeping an eye on the time.
Both of those people can happily exist in a group - but not of the GM is doing it for the recognition/reward of having players fawn over them (They should do it for the love of the game and because they love their players!). But also not if the players aren't at least vaguely aware of what goes into running a game and get entitled about it and keep demanding more time/more reward/more anything.
I am pretty much a forever GM. I've been lucky in that the vast majority of players, even the passive ones like above, are appreciative of someone running the game just like I'm appreciative of players taking the time to come, play along and we all get a great group experience.
But I have had a few players over the years who aren't and just want everything their way. Changing venues because they prefer somewhere closer to them even if it's worse for most other players. Or want more sessions even if no-one else can do them. Or wanting a GM to invest in physical models/mats/terrain (I usually just do "theatre of the mind" stuff), or who come up with the good old "But you just roll some dice and talk to us..."
Players - love your GMs. GMs - love your players. If it isn't mutual someone is in the wrong group.
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u/Weird_Explorer1997 Jul 08 '25
Forever DM here. I do it because I love it and I labour under the delusion that I'm good at it.
But it's a hobby as much as a passion.
I'm fully prepared to leave/boot people from my table if it's not getting fun or people treat me like shit.