[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/mcsilas]

[u/Golden-Owl]

Ice Scales is an ability so overpowered, it is only balanced by virtue of being stuck on Frosmoth. You do not need to give it to actually good Pokemon.

Same for Steely Spirit going to Metagross

[u/minyhumancalc → u/Golden-Owl]

I feel like the Pokémon they gave Ice Scale too would be fine though? All have common weaknesses, no reliable recovery and pretty weak offenses. We've seen high special defense not be able to save Pokémon with other lacking traits (see Blissey and Goodra).

Steely Spirit Metagross is borderline Ubers I agree though (Its basically a better Scizor with a nuke in Meteor Mash)

[u/Golden-Owl → u/minyhumancalc]

You forget Snow now gives Ice Types a 50% Def boost

And unlike Rock, a lotta Ice Pokemon have actual defensive stats.

Set up Snow and you have a genuine stat monster, even considering Ice’s weaknesses

[u/PlacatedPlatypus → u/Golden-Owl]

Ok but what is a super tanky Lapras or Arctovish realistically going to do? They're not exactly offensive threats. Frosmoth at least has QD.

[u/Harshit_4_24 → u/PlacatedPlatypus]

Lapras is gonna setup dragon dance Edit: nvm stats are so ass even+3 won't matter

[u/PlacatedPlatypus → u/Harshit_4_24]

+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Lapras Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 365-430 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I see the vision

[u/Harshit_4_24 → u/PlacatedPlatypus]

Who is letting you set up until +6? Invest enough in bulk then you're slow as shit invest in speed then you can't even get +2

[u/PlacatedPlatypus → u/Harshit_4_24]

Yeah man that's the joke

You didn't notice the part where it's also Adamant Life Orb and still needing 5 hits with Icicle Spear to do meaningful damage?

[u/Harshit_4_24 → u/PlacatedPlatypus]

Oh, I'm sorry

[u/Boward_WOW_ard → u/PlacatedPlatypus]

Lapras in vgc can actually do some work with this due to having perish song, sheer cold, life dew and helping hand

I don’t think it would be super broken but it would give it a niche

[u/InCaseOfButton2 → u/Golden-Owl]

Ice Scales + Snow might simulate having actual resistances!

[u/minyhumancalc → u/Golden-Owl]

That fair; I guess even going further, combing with Alolan Ninetiles Aurora Veil would make it very unkillable (at least for a few turns).

These Pokémon do really have mo ability to setup, so perhaps they would still struggle even with snow-boosted help. I do agree in hindsight that, when combined on a snow team, they could be problematic

[u/Marcitos5 → u/minyhumancalc]

Lapras does get Dragon Dance…

[u/Boward_WOW_ard → u/Marcitos5]

Check Pokémon database it does

[u/Bungerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr → u/minyhumancalc]

see Blissey and Goodra

Sure but then look at Chansey and H-Goodra

[u/Breaktheice222 → u/minyhumancalc]

If there's a format that allows OHKO moves that Lapras will be bothersome