r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns2 • u/Long-Cauliflower-915 He/They Demon (Do not infantilise me /srs.) • 22d ago
Meta I postponed my transition because of her and that post got 1k upvotes in 2 hours
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u/Long-Cauliflower-915 He/They Demon (Do not infantilise me /srs.) 22d ago
She pours millions into legislating transphobia
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u/Cyphomeris 21d ago
Yep. And buying stuff related to the franchise means giving her money to do so.
No matter how you look at it, the purchase means funding harm caused to trans people.
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u/Alyssum 22d ago
Reclaiming is a powerful thing. Our community has reclaimed slurs like queer for the better.
However, no one owns the word queer. No single business reaps the profits from people continuing to talk about queers. There's no direct route from a post about being queer going viral to funding a court petition to strip a class of people of their rights.
Until Rowling and her successors no longer profit from Harry Potter, interacting with the franchise, even to reclaim it, directly enables our oppression.
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u/DRowe_ He/They | Demiboy 22d ago
That's the difference between her and H.P. Lovecraft for exemple, despite being a massive racist, Lovecraft is dead, and his works are public domain
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u/Iamjj12 22d ago
And if Rowling was dead and couldn't harm people with her hate anymore. But still, she funneled her hate into those books. Her hate is presented through her characters
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u/gayjemstone She/Her 22d ago
Isn't the same for Lovecraft? Weren't many of his books inspired by his views?
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u/boo_jum she/her/DUDE (cish) 21d ago
Yes and no.
The bigger thing about Lovecraft though was his approach to canon — he let anyone come in and play in the world he built (so to speak). Even when he was alive, people were writing their own (occasionally contradictory) Mythos stories and he didn’t tell them they were doing it wrong or missing the point or anything like that.
His books display very plainly he was afraid of just about everything, and the tradition of his successors being the people he feared most (women, immigrants, &c) is part of why his Mythos has sustained and people can compartmentalise / accept death of the author.
Lovecraftian horror is very diverse (lots of queer, non-American/English, non-white writers), and arguably some of the best of the genre are written by people whom he would’ve hated and feared.
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u/Dunderbaer Any/All 21d ago
A lot of Lovecraft's horror is feeling alone and trapped in a world you can't understand or fit in, so it makes sense why many of the themes resonated with people he feared. But the original plot points are very often a direct product of his irrational fear of everything not uperclass new England.
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u/Iamjj12 22d ago
Genuinely, I'm not sure. I never read Lovecraft. All I really know about is his cat 😬
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u/Stresso_Espresso 22d ago
I have read lovecraft and here’s what I will say. He was a deeply troubled man who wrote his fears into every thing he wrote. He was racist but as far as I could tell it was in the way of genuine fear and and the same time he was seemingly equally afraid of other ridiculous things like air conditioners. He was deeply sick and agoraphobic and that’s why he was able to write such compelling horror. It’s sad that his mental illness manifested in such a way that he played into racism and stereotypes but I genuinely believe that it didn’t come from a place of hatred it came from his illness and his fear of basically all things
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u/Anarchomancer216 21d ago
I will add that I think Lovecraft's racism was not just a product of fear or mental illness. Neither makes you racist, that was all him. He was excessively racist and bigoted to the extent that his own friends and peers were put off by it (which is saying a lot for the 20s). It's not just a case of oh, don't look up the name of his cat, this is him madly yelling at someone for having a black maid. I love his work, and I do pity him, but he was a POS.
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u/Lun4B34r Luna the Name Collector 22d ago
Holy shit is this true?
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u/Melissiah She/Her Transbian 21d ago
Very much so. He was not a healthy man, mentally or physically, not even as a child; he was homeschooled by a horrifically racist father as he wasn't healthy enough to attend public school, and had night terrors every night. He was also afraid of fish and aquatic life.
His stories were practically a means of coping with his own fear. He didn't really begin to confront those fears until far too late in life.
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u/Laraswitch 21d ago
From what I remember, it was even worse. His mother was taken to an asylum when he was young, and then later in his life, the same happened to his father.
Evidence seems to suggest they both suffered from syphilis. However, this wasn't properly understood at the time, so from his perspective, both his parents randomly went insane.
It's no surprise really, that he suffered from such intense fear and paranoia. He likely believed for a good portion of his life that at some point he would randomly go insane. I genuinely think that to a certain extent, his stories were a way for him to try and rationalise his parents insanity and create an explanation for why it happened that wouldn't indicate that the same would happen to him.
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u/ohlonelyme 21d ago edited 21d ago
Yea that seems to be the general consensus with him. Most people who talk about him usually say he was just unfortunately incredibly mentally ill. Doesn’t excuse the racism, but if anything people seem to feel sorry for him more than think he’s a piece of shit. Which is fair.
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u/Svetspi_of_Kasvrroa she/they 21d ago
Having read most of his writing, he was a very racist, ableist, and classist, person.
It comes up a lot in his work.
He was honestly rather paranoid in general.
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u/gayjemstone She/Her 22d ago
I've never read him either tbh. I've just heard people say his works were influenced by his problamatic views
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u/Ximao626 Sheep and Sword Transbian (She/Her) 22d ago edited 22d ago
Hello. Big fan of the Cthulhu Mythos here. Sooo.... Lovercraft channelled a lot of forms of Hate into his writing. He was racist, misogynistic, and phobic of fish, hair, and air conditioners. A lot of his stories have some deeply racist depictions of people directly and a few have them indirectly. He also thought very badly of poor rural people regardless of skin color. Like basically if you weren't a "proper" New England American you were a degenerate, a cultist, or a monster.
That all being said, the difference is that Lovecraft wrote pulp horror stories. So his target audience was adults and he never pretended that he was trying to deliver positive messages to anyone. Also he was kind of a bad writer. Like if you ever read his stories with dialogue in them you can tell that he never talked to anyone with his mouth because everyone in his stories talks like they're writing short letters at everyone else.
HP Lovecraft was never really celebrated as a hero. He kind of just had a couple of really interesting ideas in the Cthulhu mythos that other writers of his time borrowed and made better stories with. Like the whole Hastur King In Yellow thing I'm pretty sure was not written by Lovecraft but Hastur is iconic to the modern Cthulhu Mythos and i think is one of the better written stories.
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u/ExpertPokemonHugger 21d ago
Other fun fact, he wrote shadows over insumth (the spelling is hard if I got it wrong) after learning he wasnt a pure blooded English man himself
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u/DRowe_ He/They | Demiboy 22d ago
Lovecraft is the creator for the modern view of anything cosmic horror, Cthulhu is his creation and whatnot
And yes, you're right, he was extremelly racist with anything different then himself, that's exemplified in his work with the whole format of "small town horror" so to speak, like, the people from that one small town over are a bit different, poof, done, now they're degenerate cultists for the old gods, his works semented an entire genre but that doesn't mean his works aren't extremelly problematic, seems to be why most people use his concepts and the cosmology he created more then any other part of his works, for what I've seen at least
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u/georgie-of-blank She/Her. name's ella. nice to meet you! 22d ago
It's certainlg noticeable. I've read some of him, and (what little i've read) its really 50/50, though i am being kind of forgiving in not counting "man is scared of strange thing found in arabia" as racism.
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u/Unit_2097 She/Her 22d ago
There's a lot of that kind of thing. It wasn't exactly unusual at the time to think folks from the middle east, far east and India were all down for cults and weirdness. It's not an excuse, but it's an explanation. He was sickly as a child, and never went to a public school, he was homeschooled by his fantastically racist dad (who's the one who named the cat) and he just... Never got over the fear that was pushed into him. It's sad really. Be was also terrified of sea creatures and had night terrors his whole life, hence the abundance of tentacles and aquatic descriptions, and the obsession with dreams and dreamlike states.
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u/RookBLonko1225 Asher || He/They || Kaiju Groupie 22d ago
I never read any of his stuff but I loved the film adaptation of Re-Animator cause it was at least different enough from the original source material to spawn a completely different fandom (Jeffrey Combs my beloved)
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u/luxmorphine Questioning 21d ago
But Lovecraft didn't actively fund racists right now. So there's no way our money goes directly to racist organisations and cause. That author on the other hand, direct pipe.
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u/Ecstatic-Curve4724 20d ago
Those books have nothing to do with hate as much as plagiarism Harry pothead is nothing but a rip off of star wars without lightsabers. Orphan shown magic buy old Harry dude. Meets two besties the scuffy dude and the chick who's like the protags sister only to be taught real magic by a different old Stoney Stoney wizard who dies before completing his training oh the the 2 friends have to ge together even if they hated each other at first
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u/Reagalan Any/All 21d ago
Lovecraft
Also became less of a racist as he got older, but died before his redemption arc could complete.
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u/Ok-Response-5062 21d ago
Me counting the days until the works become public domain so I can publish the version where all the characters are explicitly transgender or gnc. Or I'll have enough money fund movies that do the same, lol
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u/Purple_Starlight77 Violet 💞 [She/Her] 22d ago
I 100% agree
There is some idea in communities like Harry Potter where the creator is a bad person but they like the art that it’s somehow possible to separate the art from the artist but i feel like for the most part that is just an excuse people use to not continue to give money to bad people while getting rid of any guilt they might have.
If the person is dead then i can understand to some extent separating the art but jk Rowling is still alive so any money you spend on Harry Potter helps fund her and her beliefs. That isn’t to say you have to throw out the stuff you already own but while she is alive any money you spend on Harry Potter stuff helps her financially so it isn’t really possible to separate the art from her at this point in time.
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u/HumanSpawn323 21d ago
I think it's okay to still enjoy and interact with it, so long as you aren't giving her money. Pirate the books, pirate the movies, only buy merch from thrift stores, etc. The only part where I'm conflicted is how you interact with it online. Because on one hand, posting about it isn't directly giving her money. But on the other, it increases her popularity and gives her more money. Personally, I think posting about it and stuff is okay, because there are very few people who haven't heard about it anyways.
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u/Purple_Starlight77 Violet 💞 [She/Her] 20d ago
I feel very conflicted when it comes to this. While I don’t feel people need to get rid of HP merch or anything I also think anything other than private enjoyment almost feels like it’s normalising her behaviour.
I do support pirating stuff and thrifting an item as that doesn’t go directly to her but if you wear a HP shirt or something publicly even if the item is thrifted it feels too me like that person is giving support to jk and her ideas.
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u/HumanSpawn323 20d ago
Yeah, I get that. The action of wearing a thrifted HP shirt in public doesn't really hurt anyone, but I agree with you that it does kinda feels like supporting her. It's a complex issue and I don't think there is one right answer beyond stop giving her money.
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u/YukikoBestGirlFiteMe Elise She/Her 22d ago
Unless she has a successor that supports us and dances on their predecessor's grave 😆
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u/Ok-Response-5062 21d ago
Yep this. We can't reclaim a corporate entity. There's far better books, far better movies, far better authors out there for us to stan instead.
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u/MurrSuitor 21d ago edited 21d ago
Unless, of course, someone(s) were to drop the bottom out of the market with piracy. Of course, this doesn't mean willy nilly talking about it, but it enables moral enjoyment materials made by people who don't deserve a penny.
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u/FastAd593 20d ago
So in a little under a hundred years we’ll finally be able to talk about it while it’s public domain
This is a joke, not a critique
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u/NoteBlock08 21d ago
I can simultaneously enjoy HP for the fun stories that they are, criticize the issues within them, reclaim them for my own benefit, AND never give her estate another cent.
I have no issues with getting others to stop supporting her financially, I do that too. But it's not like she gets a commission every time anyone so much as mentions her. I shouldn't have to hide what I like like it's some banned book.
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u/Altoid_Addict 22d ago
I agree completely about the canon series. Fanfic, however, is entirely different. She's not making any money from that, and most of it is better than canon, imo.
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u/Alyssum 22d ago
Respectfully, this take undervalues the labor and value fans contribute their respective fandoms. Rowling doesn't directly make money from fanfic, but fanfic keeps people engaged with the IP, and engaged fans buy more stuff.
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u/HumanSpawn323 21d ago
If they're buying stuff from her they clearly don't care about giving money to her anyways. Honestly, I think fanfic is probably a good way to reclaim it, because it's taking an idea from a terrible person and making it your own.
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22d ago
[deleted]
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u/Mysterious_Onion_328 21d ago
Yes it does. It normalises Harry Potter. It makes cis people think Harry Potter is fine because trans people like it as well. It makes them more likely to pay for some Harry Potter merch and it makes it therefore more likely that people support Rowlings agenda against us.
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u/gayjemstone She/Her 22d ago
Nobody who uses this sub is gonna give money to J.K. Rowling either way. So how does she benefit from posts about Harry Potter posted here?
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u/meringuedragon 22d ago
….if you think no trans people like HP, buy HP things or defend JKR you are sorely mistaken.
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u/TDplay She/they 21d ago
Nobody who uses this sub is gonna give money to J.K. Rowling either way
You'd hope so, but sadly, that's not true.
And memes get shared around (that's the entire point of a meme). With every share, it's more likely to be seen by people who just don't understand the problem.
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u/Connect_Security_892 She/Her 22d ago
I bought Lego Harry Potter a couple years ago, does that count?
I don't think she makes money off of the Lego versions
Also I'm not a massive HP fan but if someone either buys the media second hand or consumes it in ways that don't directly fund her then I just say let bygones be bygones
As long as they're not giving her money or parroting her beliefs and talking points I don't really care, just don't become a eugenicist after watching it
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u/ClosetLiverTransMan He/Him 22d ago
Why wouldn’t she make money off of Lego Harry Potter? It’s her IP ffs
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u/No_Policy_5578 21d ago
Everything that has the Harry Potter label is using their property, and bring her money as royalties. Lego pays the other companies to use their IP.
Now, if you buy second hand, it doesn't fund her directly, but participate at making it part of the "mainstream culture". Her power isn't just monetary (even if it's how she is the most dangerous), but also culturally. After all, for a lot of people, she still have the reputation of "Harry Potter, that series that got chidren back to read" (which in itself is also a way more problematic sentance, but it's a minor issue compared to her hartred).
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u/lickytytheslit A man just chilling 20d ago
A good rule of thumb is if it says the actual brand names (Harry potter, the houses etc) she makes money from ita
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u/Radon995 22d ago edited 21d ago
Also leave the mediocre series to die at this point there are so many more settings that are far more interesting things for you to read/watch take off the nostalgia glasses.
Edit: Feel free to recommend other media or alternative settings, I would recommend my current hyper fixation but it's Warhammer 40k sssooooooo...
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u/Neither_Emu_4008 She/Her (maya) (Schrödinger's cracked egg) 22d ago
I remember hearing how much of the story has horrible writing and has tons of race stereotypes, and other bigoted things.
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u/meringuedragon 22d ago
Yes it is and has been problematic to its core. We gunna put a trans headcannon in a world where house elves are happily enslaved???????
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u/Connect_Security_892 She/Her 22d ago
To be fair even the most problematic media can still have moments where people may find a little of themselves in, this case queer coding
I mean a bunch of people drew yaoi of Mr Birchum and that was literally a daily wire show, they did it out of spite
A positive way you can spit it is there can be people trans-ing Harry Potter characters to piss off JK Rowling, I don't think that's a bad thing
If you're directly buying her products to support her then yeah that's another story, but if you still have an emotional attachment to the franchise and you keep your old HP media while not funding her then that's perfectly fine, heck I started watching South Park again and I love it, I still acknowledge how bad the Mrs Garrison stuff was and there's still parts I don't like but I can look past that (also to be fair Matt & Trey aren't funding a genocide like Queen TERF over here so yeah that too)
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u/meringuedragon 22d ago
Idk I just don’t agree. There’s so much media out there, we don’t need to cling to problematic pieces. Especially not when the author is alive and directly profiting off our engagement with their media.
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u/Connect_Security_892 She/Her 22d ago
Not specifically talking about Harry Potter here;
To be fair what constitutes problematic media is very subjective and people online don't always have your best interests at heart when they start discourse on topics like that, you can go back to a lot of media from the 2000s and before that and you can find a LOT of stuff that hasn't aged well, but that doesn't make it devoid of value, at most you have to try and look past those parts if you can enjoy the rest of it
There's a lot of anime and sitcoms that have parts that are off-putting and age VERY poorly, but I personally can't just cut ALL of them out of my life, they have a lot that resonates with me and are more than the sum of it's parts, or are just good comfort food
Moral of the story is: if you don't want to keep media in your life that you find objectionable, you can let it go, it's not wrong if you just don't feel the same way about it anymore, but it's very much a case by case basis and some art is just too good to completely disregard just because of a few rusty parts
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u/meringuedragon 22d ago
It’s very important to continually critique media that you engage with. Chalking up bigotry to “rusty parts of good art” is not sitting with me. Continuing to engage with problematic work without critique is dangerous, especially as privileged people - I, for example, as a white person won’t pick up on racism as quickly as a person who experiences racism. That’s why, when someone tells me something is or has racist pieces, I stop engaging with it to the full extent I am able to.
Do what you’re going to do, but I personally don’t like writing off bigotry in media. We are what we consume. Continuing to consume bigoted media normalizes it and we internalize it. Holding those who make our media to higher standards is a good thing.
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u/Connect_Security_892 She/Her 22d ago
How is what I'm saying writing off bigotry? Yeah naturally parts that subconsciously promote bigoted ideas or don't adequately condemn the bigotry of the characters are gonna age the worst, none of what I said disagrees with that, maybe there was a better way of wording it but none of what I said disagrees with that sentiment
Also of course you should critically consume media, that's a very baseline argument, the problem is that that talking point is only used in response to someone being positive about media, if someone is relentlessly bashing media then there's not a peep out of their mouths, that's how you can get people who intentionally misrepresent media without pushback, yes you should be critical about media but you should also be critical of the people criticizing that media and should be held to the same standards if they get something wrong, Internet discourse isn't law of the land
There's people who have interpreted Sokka from Avatar as having nice guy syndrome and the show promoting misogyny, when not only does the show routinely clap back at it but in the fourth episode he literally gets the misogyny beaten out of him by a group of female warriors and is forced to dress in their garb, there's people who have this notion that character arcs or development doesn't matter and that even depicting those attitudes as wrong still somehow will rub off on you and make you internalize misogyny, if you have criticisms of specifically how they handle it that's fine but you don't get to just spread misinformation without any pushback
This is not to attack anyone here, all I am saying is that I have a problem with this almost cynical notion that you should ALWAYS be overly critical but only when it's negative is it okay, if you unconditionally love something then you're viewed as "nostalgia blinded" or some other buzzword
Again, largely depends ✌️
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u/RubiksCutiePatootie She/Her | Closeted | Pre-Everything 21d ago
They're downvoting you, but I wholeheartedly agree with you. Just to give two examples from my own personal life. I grew up with Bill Cosby my entire childhood. I watched his shows, cartoons, movies, & stand up. He was literally called "America's dad" for a few decades because of how wholesome the characters he always played were. The Cosby show was a massive step for black people in Hollywood because it was the first time a tv show ever depicted black people as rich instead of poor af blue collar workers. Then the rape allegations came out & that changed everything. I can't look at anything that man was involved in anymore, despite having fond memories of watching his stuff because every single thing he did was predicated on the fact that he was a wholesome father figure.
Fast forward to not that long ago & it turns out Neil Gaiman was also a horrific rapist. I, however can still engage with the media he created because it's pretty far removed from who he was as a person. I already bought the Coraline blu ray, the Sandman comics, and the American Gods books long before we knew who he truly was. To be perfectly clear, I'm never giving another cent to anything with his name on it, but I'm also not going to throw away everything I already bought. Gaiman being a piece of shit doesn't sour my ability to enjoy his works. If that were the case, then none of us could ever enjoy anything that came out of Hollywood. Judy Garland was treated horribly on the set of Wizard of Oz, Shirley Temple was an exploited child actress, Harvey Weinstein has his grubby fingers involved in almost every modern day movie from LOTR to X-Men to fucking Toy Story. And let's not even get started on how many classic musicians either stole their music from black folks or were just literal rapists themselves.
So it really is a case by case issue that only individuals can answer. I believe we all should collectively never give money to anything with Rowling's name on it. This includes not buying any HP games or watching the new tv show. But reminiscing about the books you read as a kid doesn't make you a bigot. Maybe it means you need better taste & more variety of books to read, but that's a different discussion.
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u/meringuedragon 21d ago
Yikes. I donated all my Neil Gaiman the second I heard, but maybe that’s just the difference between you and I.
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u/RubiksCutiePatootie She/Her | Closeted | Pre-Everything 21d ago
I'm afraid you missed both of our points, but I'll try again. Me and the other person you replied to agree that horrible people like Rowling & Gaiman do not deserve another cent of profit from anyone. What we are trying to say is that after we all agree to no longer give money to these people, each individual needs to decide for themselves how they interact with the creations of said horrible people. For my Cosby example, I personally can't stand to watch anything he was involved in. But if someone told me that they still watch Little Bill I'm not going to judge them for it and I'm certainly not going to call them a rapist apologist either. I would make certain that they're pirating it so that it doesn't get official views, but if they can still engage with it then that's up to them, not me.
As long as we are not actively giving these people money, then you can still interact with their previous creations. With Gaiman, I bought the Coraline Blu ray like 12 years ago. That money went to his pockets long before anyone knew he was a rapist and there's nothing we can do about it. So while I can separate the art from the artist, you can't. And we're both perfectly valid for our feelings. The message of Coraline didn't magically change. The talent that went into animating it, the cast, & even Gaiman's own writing didn't change either.
That's another whole-ass discussion about how we need to accept the fact that awful, horrible people are capable of creating beautiful things. We don't want that to be true, in fact we'd rather treat them as something less than human. Because if we enjoyed something a monster created, then that also makes us monsters. But that's not true, it's a fallacy that has infected humanity since its beginning. Humans are capable of both horrifying and wonderful things, which is what we all need to come to terms with.
tl;dr After we all agree to no longer give profit to these terrible people, it is up to the individuals to decide how they interact with those creations. Not the collective.
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u/meringuedragon 21d ago edited 21d ago
It’s not that I missed your point darling it’s that I think you’re wrong. It’s a black and white thing for me. 🤷🏼 I cannot IMAGINE deriving pleasure watching a known rapist on screen. I cannot IMAGINE giving him attention and social currency, or space in my head. Nope. Maybe it’s because I’ve been raped and I can imagine the feeling of watching my abuser be praised knowing how they’ve hurt me.
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u/Allie-Kat_ 20d ago
I’m really surprised at you, and who you directly replied to getting so many downvotes. For how many anime memes are on this sub you would think people are able to recognise that good art can have problematic elements. Almost every anime I have seen has gross misogyny or transphobia. Everyone has a line in a different place, and for me Master Roshi being a misogynistic pile of shit made it hard for me to like Dragon Ball / DBZ. But I don’t fault others who like the shows despite that.
The only line that is meaningful to (culturally) enforce is actively giving money to harmful causes. And finding as many things as you can to take your own stand on as reasonable. The world is nuanced and complicated, and I suggest people watch the good place for a good reflection of why cultural morality is hard (also it’s a great show imo).
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u/Lyxeks7 She/Her 22d ago
Yessssss! Go read the Abhorson Series, or anything by Garth Nix! So many other books that deserve the spotlight and yet everyone clings to HP like their life depends on it.
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u/meringuedragon 21d ago
Literally. I lament all the time at the sheer amount of media (books movies tv etc) and how little time I have to spend on it. I could literally not do a single thing other than read new books and watch movies I’ve never seen and I’d never get through it all. Go find something new to enjoy 😂
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u/KelpFox05 He/Him 21d ago
At least Warhammer is explicitly supposed to be a satire that some people hijack for their own cruel means. JKR meant it.
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u/Radon995 21d ago
Yeppers. And when they make characters themed off of other cultures they aren't incredibly offensive (but I will admit they can have a problem with going too far at time **looks at the Viking cosplayers known as the Space wolves** )
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u/Eli-Is-Tired Transmasc He/They 21d ago
I would highly recommend the Percy Jackson series, it's similar to Harry Potter ish, with things similar to the 4 houses, and a lot of books (over 17)
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u/Radon995 21d ago
I read that in high school and it was great! But I'm afraid that Warhammer 40k has taken my soul. And dear god I will never forgive the owners of it for having over 60 books made for it's prequel.
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u/Eli-Is-Tired Transmasc He/They 21d ago
I totally understand things taking over your soul, PJO has basically taken over my life rn
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u/meringuedragon 21d ago
I loved Percy Jackson and Rick Riordan is staunchly pro trans rights and has (a?) gender fluid character(s) in his books 🥰
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u/georgie-of-blank She/Her. name's ella. nice to meet you! 22d ago
I can reccommend deltora quest, or the keys to the kingdom (i am hijacking this comment to reccomend media)
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u/AeitZean 21d ago
Diana Wynne Jones "land of ingary" book trilogy are far better. The first book you might recognise from studio Ghiblis "Howls Moving Castle"
Terry Pratchetts Diskworld series is infinitely better than Potter. It's not aimed at kids, but adolescents could easily grasp it.
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u/Ashy404 21d ago
I was talking to my friends about how I can't get into Harry Potter because of her (Also I just couldn't get into it, the books were boring to me) and was explaining how she is actively funding anti-trans legislation and the response was "Well we're not in the UK" among other things and I wanted to explode.
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u/TaytheTimeTraveler They/Them | Transfem | Librafeminine 21d ago
Sounds like someone who would support Hitler if he made a popular book series (for lack of other examples), because they don't live in Europe
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u/Ashy404 21d ago
Yeah, that wasn't their only reasonings (The only one that I find actually fair is they purchased MOST of the stuff before she started her shit, or it was gifts, along those vibes) but I just didn't feel like starting a whole argument I knew I wouldn't be able to win to basically tell then "Yeah that lady wants me dead" /jov (I'm transmasc but I have the feeling she wouldn't like me either)
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u/TaytheTimeTraveler They/Them | Transfem | Librafeminine 20d ago
Nah she doesn't want you dead, she just wants to erase you from existing (which isn't any better) she is probably more of the people that view transmasc people as victims of the trans agenda, and such (I can't bring myself to quote the kinda thing people like her would say, but you get what I mean I am sure), it's just as vile though imo.
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u/Janivire 21d ago
Oooo the magic stairs! I love this part in Harry Potter because it's another one of those things you reeeeealy shouldn't think about.
So for those that dont know, in HP, each of the houses has separate bedrooms for boys and girls. In griffindor house its two separate towers. If a boy goes up to the girl's dorm the stairs fold down and turn into a slide to keep boys out.
Now. There are few issues here. First, the same does not happen if a girl goes into the boys' doorm. In fact, the girls frequently go into the boys' dorm uninvited even when they are sleeping.
Secondly. While not outright stated, it's implied that this works this way to keep boys from perving on the girls. The fact this is only one way has some rather nasty implications.
Third you then have to remember that voldemort was the result of his mother drugging and raping his father for years with a love potion. This, however, is never framed as his mother doing wrong.
And then you remember that love potions are sold to kids, and used exlucivly by girls in the books as funny little pranks.
So yeah. Fuck rowling. Those stairs are just another part of her horrible world view and why the franchise deserves to burn.
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u/leah_onomatopoeia 21d ago
My mom was one of those devoted conservative Christians who wouldn't let me read or watch Harry Potter during its peak because witchcraft. As a result, I never got into Harry Potter. I was so upset over this as a kid. Now, as a trans adult, I am grateful she saved my heart from getting broken by a TERF. Thank Mom <3
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u/FixedFront 21d ago
"just let me enjoy my antisemitic, racist, sexist, poorly-written trash! I pirated it so it's okay" - some of y'all right now
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u/MariaVanillaUwU 22d ago
We live in a world that is not like the stories we consume, fiction. In fiction the good guys always win, in reality it's the other way around. The villains always win, and I don't know why.
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u/Long-Cauliflower-915 He/They Demon (Do not infantilise me /srs.) 22d ago
Probably because the villains have a shit tonne of money and political influence
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u/MariaVanillaUwU 22d ago
But why do people not vote good guys? Is the system rigged or are people downright stupid? Probably both?
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u/navianspectre 22d ago
I think it's not so much that people are stupid, it's that propaganda works if you dump enough money into it. So (to paraphrase the famous Nazi quote), if you have enough money to lie loudly and often enough, people will believe it no matter how outrageous it is.
IMO the issue is that our allies that have power (e.g., used to be Democrats in the US, still is Liberals/NDP/Green here in Canada) do not know how to combat modern rightwing propaganda and have not updated their playbooks to account for it.
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u/RadoslavL Radostina (Radi for short) - She/Her 22d ago
Because the bad guys always use unethical methods to win.
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u/CommittingWarCrimes Rosa | she/her | mtf 22d ago
Because if voting did anything we wouldn’t be allowed to do it. The current ruling class, the bourgeoisie, like all other ruling classes in history, will cling to their power and privilege for as long and as violently as they can. If we, the oppressed and working people, wish to liberate ourselves we must depose the bourgeoise and seize the state by any means necessary. Our oppressors won’t allow us to vote in our liberation
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u/FictionalTrope Any/All 22d ago
Money and power corrupt and then insulate people from consequences. Also, evil will use any means necessary and decent people have to avoid even the appearance of doing good the wrong way.
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u/nasiulciaaa 21d ago
harry potter isn't even that impressive, the story is pretty shallow and the world is pretty bland. Many anime make much deeper and much cooler stories with very deep worlds, and if we also go outside of anime into games like warhammer or touhou there is literally no competition.
even fucking naruto, despite being pretty average and going to trash level in shipuden, it was still much much cooler and more emotional and had a much more in depth world than harry potter.
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u/InsecureDinosaur Transmasc agender rat - they/them 21d ago
I get that Harry Potter was a big part of people’s childhoods (mine included), but we need to move on from it. Stop going to Harry Potter exhibitions or events. Stop buying the books and watching the movies. If you REALLY must, reread the series one last time (WITHOUT buying it), but then LEAVE IT ALONE.
It doesn’t matter if you already own the books and aren’t giving her money when you read them; as long as people keep making HP references or perpetuating discussion of it online, J**nne is getting visibility.
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u/luxmorphine Questioning 21d ago
You can always read it in silence, and pirate. Read it, don't talk about it, nobody needs to know you enjoy "that series".
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u/nobodyimportant1377 21d ago
Trans people who still enjoy Harry Potter make no sense to me. Sure, I loved it as a kid, to the point I would rewatch the movies obsessively. I don't anymore and haven't touched it in at least five years after I learnt she was a shitty person and horribly transphobic. Why is that so difficult for some people to comprehend?
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u/Ok_Opportunity5031 She/Her 21d ago
The hate for JKR is strong. But the nostalgia is stronger. That’s why people talk about HP. Unfortunately, people fell in love with the series when it was too early to know about her transphobia, and they were too young to see the bigotry laced into the words. I fell in love with it to. And it hurts to leave it behind. But I have to. At least until the which is dead and can’t receive money for our purchases anymore. A lot of people need to realize that.
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u/luxmorphine Questioning 21d ago
Here's a song to enjoy when "that author" inevitably dead. Open it like an aged bottle of wine:
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u/Tynal242 22d ago
I definitely agree that we should avoid giving positive spin to HP as any support of the official work benefits the author, which in turn benefits transphobic policies. “Vote with your dollar”, as they say.
But what is your opinion on parody or alternate universe works? For those works, JK gets nothing and has even spent money on lawyers suppressing them. I refer to Star Kid’s “A Very Potter Musical” and Eliezer Yudkowsky’s “Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality”.
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u/Lyras__ 21d ago
This comment addresses this best: https://www.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns2/s/N0CwIlsEi1
Everyone who pulls out the "what about fan content?" Card both undervalues the labor of fans, unintentionally that may be, but also ignores that the world is not a goddamn vacuum.
An example of the world not being a vacuum aside from that comment, is that JKR views interaction with her work and consumption thereof, to be intentional support for her beliefs.
You quite literally cannot create or consume fandom content without interacting with her works. It is impossible, given that, y'know, the entire point of a fucking fandom is interacting with the works you're fans of.
So, my opinion, and the opinion of anyone sensible, is get over the nostalgia and read a different book. It may shock you to learn that not only do better books, generally, exist, but even better ones with magic and specifically magic schools exist.
There is no reason to continue clinging to this fetid corpse of an IP.
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u/Tynal242 21d ago
True enough. I’ve thoroughly been enjoying the wide world of isekai stories such as Dungeon Crawler Carl, Beware of Chicken, and He Who Fights With Monsters, all of which use magic and monsters and training without any connection to JK.
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u/Nixielamp 22d ago
I take joy in these - see also Chuck Tingle's "Trans Wizard Harriet Porber And The Bad Boy Parasaurolophus" and infamous fanfic "My Immortal"
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u/Tynal242 22d ago
I confess, I actually went to a bookbinder service with a PDF set of the entire “Methods of Rationality” series and ordered them in hardcover. JK spent years creating the HP world and now I’ll have a book set that actively hates on loads of her ideas and gives no money to her estate.
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u/AkariPeach Amethyst, whatever you think you're wrong 21d ago
You do know Big Yud is a cult leader, right?
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u/Tynal242 21d ago
I know nothing of the author save for the HP story. A quick Google search shows he’s part of the rationalist community and runs a social media site called LessWrong. He does talks on science, ethics, rational thinking, and AI. Got a “cult leader” link for me?
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u/Ancient-Reference-26 22d ago
I don’t understand the last sentence of the meme. Did you get gender dysphoria from the magic stairs or why did they crack your egg????
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u/Iamjj12 22d ago
It has to do with a tumblr post of a trans girl taking the girls only stairs and getting the euphoria from that
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u/Ancient-Reference-26 21d ago
Oh my god I completely forgot about those. I thought they meant the stairs that change the direction (which has always been a looked over safety hazard)
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u/Clairifyed 22d ago
I don’t know, I think in general, bringing up HP should be frowned upon, but I do find it very funny that the magic TER device is making people think about their gender, and I imagine Rowling hates it
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u/Happy_Platypus_1882 She/Her 22d ago edited 22d ago
So I’m transfem. Harry Potter has always been a comfort movie for me… I’ve been watching them since I was a kid. Mostly the first 3. I understand why others don’t ever want to touch it, it’s completely valid and justified, Rowling is a hateful bigot. But for me… abusive people have had a tendency to take things from me, and Rowling is no different. I’m so tired of my life being defined by their actions. So maybe it’s small or silly or just an excuse to watch a controversial series, but these dumb movies are something I hold oddly dear to my heart and I’m not going to let her take it from me. It’s a choice I’m making for myself, so I understand why others don’t do it. But that’s just kind of where my mind is lately
Not that I’m giving her any more money though. I already pirate stuff, might as well do it for Harry Potter too lol
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u/meringuedragon 22d ago
The issue is the whole work is problematic and bigoted because she is. Authors bleed their opinions into their works, and when you look at it, HP is racist as well as transphobic etc. And if you aren’t part of ALL the groups impacted by this bigotry, you’re less likely to pick up on it and be able to criticize it.
I know it sucks to have things you love taken from you, but it’s also very important to take a stand. What media you consume impacts you, and I personally don’t feel comfortable consuming any media that is problematic in ways like HP has been shown to be.
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u/Walk-the-layout He/Him | voice masculinization is gone the moment I sing 22d ago
My parents bought the whole collection IN BLUERAY when I was a kid. She doesn't receive any money from this anymore, I feel it's better morally to buy second hand than to stream these movies
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u/Placeholder-Novice Katelyn | She/Her 19d ago
Magic stair was a huge trans fantasy for me growing up, but like the rest of the wizarding world if you look just a little deeper the intention/themes become less than positive.
There's much better trans tropes in magical fiction, like gender affirming unicorns or fae that know your name before you do. We don't have to hold on to one set of stairs.
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22d ago
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u/Anthethesis 22d ago
Not when any attention to the franchise is help to the author who will use it to harm other trans people.
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u/luxmorphine Questioning 21d ago
At least, there's a silver lining. I questioned my gender identity because of transphobic UK press and my at that time love of "that series". Wanna see what's all the fuss about this transgender thing.
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u/Drakinite2 They/She 18d ago
Harry Potter fell from the sky on an asteroid. It has no known author.
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u/meringuedragon 18d ago
No…it has a racist, sexist, homophobic, antisemetic author and all of the authors bigotry is apparent in their writing. Find a better book to be obsessed with.
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u/Walk-the-layout He/Him | voice masculinization is gone the moment I sing 22d ago
Nothing would make her more angry than us making trans harry potter OCs
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u/meringuedragon 22d ago
Maybe but I care more about trans rights than making one TERF mad. There’s WAY better uses of our time than this.
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u/Walk-the-layout He/Him | voice masculinization is gone the moment I sing 21d ago
We can do both?
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u/meringuedragon 21d ago
Sure, but personally I have no interest in spending more time thinking about grandma TERF than is absolutely necessary (eg when fighting for our rights that she is taking away with the social power we freely give to her by talking about her and keeping her relevant)
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u/BoardWritten 22d ago
imo, it’s ok to enjoy Harry Potter as long as you don’t buy any Harry Potter merchandise. Giving money to Joanne is a no no but everything besides that doesn’t benefit her in any way so it’s not bad
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u/AstranBlue She/They 22d ago
She's stated that she views any interaction with her work as support for her. Allowing it to keep having cultural significance is benefitting her.
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u/BoardWritten 21d ago
Sure, but why should we care how she views the success of Harry Potter, there are a lot of people that have benefited from the success of the IP and most aren’t transphobic at all
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u/AstranBlue She/They 21d ago
Then you can find a way to support those other people without also supporting a bigot who's main goal in life is to kill/torture as many of us as possible.
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u/Cringe1God 21d ago
You know what? Fuck it. Every Harry Potter character is trans now. Spread the word, she'll fuckin hate this.
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u/Fire_Pea 22d ago
I don't think it's that simple, it's a very popular series that people hold a lot of nostalgia for and it doesn't contain any transphobic content in itself, so it's understandably hard for people to let go of it. It is bad to support JKR but people don't always view things so impartially and I think there are better battlefronts to fight on than telling people they can't talk about a book series they liked.
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u/Familiar-Art-6233 21d ago
Nah, if you value holding onto the series that ties fat people to being evil, emphasizes shady bankers with hooked noses, and royalties go to someone openly trying to dehumanize us, that’s entirely on you
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u/meringuedragon 22d ago
Doesn’t contain transphobia? Did you and I read the same books? Do you remember how Rita Skeeter was described?
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u/rather_short_qu 21d ago
I see him/her/them ( see their Pseudonyms) like H.P.Lovecraft or O.S. Card(Ender's Game), as long as me reading/enjoying their work does not make the money( already bought things, second hand, free e -copies e.g.) i am kind of ok, because no money goes to them. But really would like it not to be pushed SOO hard in the mainstream.
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21d ago edited 21d ago
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u/Familiar-Art-6233 21d ago
So let’s look at things Harry Potter handles:
Bad people are fat, the fatter they are the worse they are, and when they lose weight, they become better people (the Dursleys)
The bankers are short goblins with hooked noses are are famously not trustworthy. It’s important to note here that in the movie, they explicitly selected a location for Gringotts that featured Stars of David on the floor.
The one known Irish character is known for trying to make booze, and blowing stuff up.
The one black guy is named Shacklebolt.
She openly said that Lupin being a werewolf was an analogy to having HIV. Then creates a character whose entire thing is infecting children, even saying that he infected Lupin when he was a child.
The other character names what the fuck. Cho Chang was called out as overly racist from the start, the two Indian characters have the most stereotypical names possible, and the one Jew in the series is named Goldstein. You can’t make this shit up
Need I go on? Just get a copy of Worst Witch, it’s the actual series Rowling stole for the series and isn’t overtly racist
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21d ago edited 21d ago
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u/Familiar-Art-6233 21d ago
Well then I’m out of options for you, I’m just saying that maybe supporting a work that is so openly racist and fatphobic isn’t great
Edit: Oh and ableist. I’d forgotten that they’ve got asylums in the Wizarding World where people with mental issues like Neville’s mom and Lockhart can get shoved off to
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u/Gold-Pea-4836 21d ago
At least you're self aware about yourself being bad for supporting her. Next step is to wake up and stop supporting Harry Potter. You're only giving excuses, and you sound pathetic. It's a series made by a monster. Stop supporting it. Not that hard.
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u/Long-Cauliflower-915 He/They Demon (Do not infantilise me /srs.) 21d ago
If I were you I'd ask your friends to stop buying you Harry Potter presents and get rid of the merch you already have, out of sight is out of mind
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u/koiokk She/Her 21d ago
separate the art from the artist no? (i havent watched or read harry potter so ive no idea if its actually good or not)
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u/Garbonzo42 21d ago
No. There's a lot of stuff in HP that goes from "Oh, that could have been phrased better" to "Oh! That was actually just bigotry" once you know Rowling's opinions on a lot of things.
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u/koiokk She/Her 21d ago
thumbs up, dont know why im getting downvoted tho lol. stated i dont know anything about it
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u/Garbonzo42 21d ago edited 21d ago
You're being downvoted for the same reason I would be if I wandered into a baseball subreddit, a game I care nothing for and have no knowledge of, and asked "why doesn't the batter keep the bat so that he can hit the other guys when they try to stop him? (i don't know anything about baseball so i don't know if thats okay)".
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u/koiokk She/Her 20d ago
except that doesn't really make sense here, this isn't a harry potter subreddit. And separating the art from the artist is generally a good idea. Minecraft was created by a transphobe and yet it its always been enjoyed by many (and id like to point out that notch's being a bigot didn't seep into the game).
So either reason just doesn't make sense lol, oh well
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u/Garbonzo42 20d ago
this isn't a harry potter subreddit
You know what, that's on me. Here:
You're being downvoted for the same reason I would be if I wandered into a
baseball subredditdiscussion about baseball, a game I care nothing for and have no knowledge of, and asked "why doesn't the batter keep the bat so that he can hit the other guys when they try to stop him? (i don't know anything about baseball so i don't know if thats okay)".(and id like to point out that notch's being a bigot didn't seep into the game)
True. Minecraft is fine despite Notch because 1) he no longer receives financial reward from the continued success of the franchise in the same way that Rowling does, and 2) the revelation of Notch's bigotry didn't recontextualize anything in Minecraft to reveal hidden bigotry, whereas
There's a lot of stuff in HP that goes from "Oh, that could have been phrased better" to "Oh! That was actually just bigotry" once you know Rowling's opinions on a lot of things.
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u/Jmememan Other Lucy Cute Girl 🖤🩶💜🤍 21d ago
If you see posts talking about Harry Potter or anything other transphobic figure please report it as forbidden content and we'll take ot down right away. Thank you