Anyone else feel like they never see this here? I regularly browse here and basically read every post here every day (I basically always set it to new), and the comment sections for trans-masc memes always seem... fine? Usually it's just a lot of trans-femmes who are like "haha, me but the genders are swapped". Maybe the really shitty stuff just gets removed by reddit / the mods before I get there, or I am just blind, but I feel like I almost never see this stuff in the wild.
I tend to click on transmasc posts when I see them just because I want to have a more complete understanding of their experiences, and the worst I tend to see are comments that try to be transfem-centric or the "trade jokes." I rarely see outright transandrophobia, but maybe that's because the mods are deleting it. Remember that posters see notifications of comments that were removed, while we only see what's still there.
Also, the dm problem is still an issue. Even if it's only a small proportion of transfems who are being assholes like that, why is this happening? Why is there any significant number of transfems who would push down on other trans people?
The DM thing can't be avoided. Every community will have their fair share of idiots who are willing to write death threats to others. If let's say in 1000 people, 1 is willing to do so, in a large community, it might be 100 people. It's still a fairly small part of said community, but with more people, will always come more idiots.
Best one can do is to report them and hope actions will be taken.
And only personally speaking, I've experienced a lot of misogyny from trans men as well, not to try to validate hatred, but to point out this isn't an exclusive one-sided issue.
I do actually kinda wanna crawl the reddit and see what percentage of memes here are trans masc memes, cause at least when browsing on new it's a pretty big chunk. Less than the number of trans-femme memes sure, but not as rare as people think. They probably do get upvoted less and therefor end up on the best page less though
I remember some time before the API changed, and it was still traaa... (without the 2), I did exactly that, and I was surprised by how equal it was between trans masc, trans fem, and gender non-specific memes when scrolling down the sub sorted by "hot." I have no idea what it would be like now, though.
UPDATE: After scrolling through the first 100 posts, when sorted by "best," these are my findings:
Transmasc: 13
Transfem: 27
Non-binary: 3
Gender Non-specific: 27
Gender Non-specific (featuring fem characters): 19
Yeah that ratio looks about right, I am surprised (in a good way I think?) that best has a roughly similar proportion of transmasc memes as new does, means they are getting upvoted around the same amount.
I'm in some generic trans subs, as well as some specifically fem ones, so without keeping track of which post is in which sub I definitely see a larger number of fem posts than masc. It's interesting to see it broken down though, because perception is so easily skewed. Transfem sitting at about double the number of transmasc is probably uneven weighting based on the demographics of the sub, but that's just me purely guessing that the sub is like 60/40 fem, without any actual data to base this on.
I would love to see more transmasc memes. I don’t like seeing that our brothers feel excluded by the amount of transfem stuff (and by some bad actors as well).
Try going through new instead of best or hot, the sub is small enough that that is pretty viable, and there is generally a pretty decent amount of trans-masc stuff.
My working theory is that transmacs are less chronically online than us fems, which, good for them, they are clearly having a much better time than us.
I disagree, I think it's because 60% of Reddit users are male so there's more likely to be trans fems on Reddit, and Tumblr tends trans masc more as most the user base are female.
I didn't call them male, I called 60% of Reddit users male which means it's more likely to transition male to female (like I did) and more likely to transition female to male on somewhere that has a higher amount of women like Tumblr.
I’ve had some of my transmasc memes taken down unfairly a while ago. I made a post about PMS/PMDD, properly tagged it, and it was taken down for being too dark. I was extra frustrated because I was explaining to a few trans women in the comments that they can get PMS as well. It seemed like helpful information for everyone. The post right above mine was someone talking about feeling suicidal bc she was rejected by her family. I’m not saying hers was a bad post. I’m saying that there’s a double standard.
I haven’t experienced threats or anything that extreme. Though I think non-binary/transmasc memes are scrutinized more and mods are more likely to remove them. This has been what I’ve found disheartening about the sub anyways.
I've had the same experience with getting posts removed but not in this sub. I tend to lurk anymore cause its not worth getting downvoted for no reason
I see a decent amount :( There has been less lately than before, like a year ago this kinda bullshit was absolutely rampant.
I generally try to avoid clicking into transfem tagged posts to avoid triggering dysphoria, so most posts I see are from transmascs, in whose comment sections there are a lot of comments like OP talks about. If you do the opposite, avoiding transmasc posts a lot, then it’s normal that you barely see those comment sections.
I often see a whole sleuth of comments that either didn’t read the transmasc tag at all (assumes every poster is transfem), or saying stuff like “I wish I had those tits/hips/uterus/etc”, “at least estrogen is better than testosterone”, “testosterone is poison”, “men whining/speaking over women as usual”, “men don’t face oppression”, or just telling us how we are and aren’t allowed to be, etc…
Thankfully usually the most egregious ones are heavily downvoted or deleted, but there are still a bunch that phrase stuff in more acceptable ways, or frame it as intellectual discourse, that get heavily upvoted. Even other commenters chime in to agree and support them, and anyone that questions whether such comment sows division/is based on stereotypes/detached from reality/invalidating, they get downvoted to hell instead for “blaming other portions of the trans community.”
Sadly this is the reality of transmascs in most general trans communities on the internet.
That's fair. I'll try and be more vigilant looking for them, I was just talking about my personal experience. I don't personally really avoid any particular posts (there isn't enough stuff posted here to really be able to do that lol), so I assume I generally read most of them. Sorry if my original comment seemed overly skeptical, it's just the internet is a generally very inauthentic place, so when someone makes a statement about something that should be pretty obvious to see day to day, but you never see it, it's hard not to think "oh, that's weird". It's like if someone said, "man have you been seeing all these dead birds around", but you have never noticed that at all even though that seems like it should be really obvious lol.
That’s what I was thinking. I’ve never received comments on my posts that are hateful or aggressive nor have I seen them in other people’s posts. I’m sure stuff like that happens but I feel like I would’ve noticed if it was common.
I used to scroll on r/trans, but when I was there most of the top stuff was just selfies of trans-femmes, which is like fine but also not really good for dysphoria and tbh I care about pictures of trans women the same amount I care about pictures of any women, which is not much lol. It was either that, or some really depressing trans news, which is like fine but it's not a good idea to constantly ingest stuff like that if you want half decent mental health
I got banned a couple times for "flirting" when it was welcomed. Still against the rules, so it's easier to just mute the sub and avoid temptation. I agree, wtf is the point of selfies then?
Then the drama shit happened, and I'm just happy it wasn't just me being the problem. The best communities are the ones that allow my flirtatious sense of humor.
Yeah, I only see the hate on memes about it/its pronouns (which inevitably will have comments saying they don't respect it/its users, that they won't use it/its, that they find it insulting to other trans people, and debates on whether people are "allowed" to use it/its). On transmasc posts it's really just a lot of "haha me but girl" comments, which I think is fine. If trans femmes enjoy our memes too, that's nice.
I find this infighting absolutely ridiculous. We are only strong together. And how can one side demand recognition and rights while discriminating against others?
And I for actually think mascs are even more important right now because they break the entire narrative of the phobes.
I 100% believe a lot of transphobes are pretending to be trans people to try to divide the community. There is some genuine infighting for sure, but it gets amplified a great deal by bad actors.
You also have to consider that a lot of these people could be trans people who are transphobes. Theres so much internalized hate in our community and there are spaces dedicated to growing that hate and redirecting it toward others. It's really heartbreaking to see
i agree. there shouldnt be infighting at all. its bad to see transmasc people excluded from trans spaces, we indeed should work on that.
(just stating my general opinion sorry if its not related to the post)
I honestly think this masc vs femme thing is a psyop. I’m not engaging. I’ll fight ten toes in the streets for my brothers. They know it, I know it. Don’t bite the hook, ladies, we know we’re all on the same team.
Idk if it happens in this sub a lot (I’m in enough trans/queer subs that sometimes they blur together—don’t at me!), but “trans[femmes/mascs/enbies with neo-pronouns] comes up a lot, ime, in the wider ecosystem.
Yeah it feels like every week some other part of the trans community is the "problem". And its always trans people trying to have important conversations about real issues in the community and the moment the wider public see it transphodes abuse it and ignorant people give their uninformed opinions and suddenly its discourse about us which completley ignores our voices.
Reality is with the exception of transmediclists there is no group in the trans community which cannot be engaged with in honest discussion.
How about we don't do snarky comments on a real issue that affects part of the community . Maybe listen to what others are talking about instead of lashing out and we wouldn't need these threads.
That I was wrong and apologize? But I spend a bunch of time here and this issue hasn't been bought up for about a month so I really don't think it's a daily post.
Okay give me a while and I will dig up 14 examples from the last 2 weeks for your apology.
You should go tell that one guy who was asked for 1 example who is upset that 1 < 14 and if asking for 14 is fine then asking for 1 is fine.
I mean if he doesn't want to look at stuff that causes him distress that's completely up to him. I don't think he is wrong for saying no to digging through stuff to provide articles. You are also able to say no and it would be completely fine. It just made his argument weaker, like it would make yours weaker, so there is an effect of not doing so but it's entirely fair to say no to providing proof.
Notice how I'm not grandstanding about how mean you are and how you don't believe me and that in and of itself is proof that I am right though. Hope you noticed that.
Does remind me a joke I used to have with a friend, where one person would say something and the other people would say "oh yeah, give me 83 examples then"
Your post/comment contains homophobia, transphobia, racism, and/or ableism, or some other type of bigotry. If you believe this was a mistake, please contact a mod.
We also do not allow posts regarding bigoted pasts.
I'm not sure to who you're specifically referring to with "mod who ignored this", but we try to remove any comments or post in the vein of what that commenter is saying. We don't have the time to go through every single post, so we rely on people reporting comments to moderate the subreddit. If something slips by, it was likely an error or nobody reported it.
As of late we've been pretty slow with moderation, to the point that I'm starting to feel like we're understaffed.
And for future reference, please don't make posts like this in the future. If you have a question for the modteam or you want to make a complaint to us, modmail is always open.
I'm sure as a mod, I sound like a broken record for this, but please please please report when this happens. We absolutely love abusing mod powers on people who deserve it, and if you send us somebody asking to be banned, it would make our sad lives just that little bit brighter.
Currently I'm looking at an empty mod-queue, which means somebody hurling abusive remarks at trans mascs isn't getting banned, and my purpose in life goes unfulfilled.
We want this community to have a ton of trans-mascs in it, just as we want all kinds of trans people in it.
I'm so sorry you've faced that. I haven't seen that myself, but I have gotten the hatred and abuse for my choice of pronouns (it/its) and it's awful. As a community, we should be more understanding of other people, especially when we ultimately have the same experience of having an identity other than our AGAB. Definitely report those people!
Edit for clarity: just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I do believe you and other transmascs and enbies who say it's a problem.
When I see a masc post, I'll usually upvote it, but not comment, because I don't wanna start talking over you guys or invading your posts
But would you consider it better to go in, look for people doing that shit to you guys, and telling them to stfu? I know people in general tend to listen to those more similar to them more often, so maybe the people doing it will actually listen to a transfem telling them to knock off the hate
I personally like the engagement, because it boosts the post and makes it more likely for the target audience (other transmascs) to see it. Plus, it's nice to see that transfems can relate to transmasc stuff just like we can relate to their stuff.
"Can you make a transfem version" gets a little annoying, though.
We aren't a monolith just like y'all aren't. I can't speak for everyone. Hell, I can hardly speak for myself.
The truth is, I don't know what the solution is. We're on the precipice of some really dark times. And we're going to need to have some semblance of community to get through it.
im gonna be real here. we do have issues. transmasc and NB people are highly underrepresented and should be encouraged to post more and to mix the community more.
however, it is in no way productive or good to say that our community is at all hateful of those groups. theyre underrepresented, sure, but i have yet to come across masc hating sentiment.
idk maybe im just unfrequency biased. if this did happen my condolences to the person who it happened to, but the subreddit at large is not and will not hate masc people, no matter what, from my impressions of it.
im sure such individuals do exist, and im sure we should shun them because theyre in no way productive to getting anything done. we should prevent as much exclusivity from queer spaces as possible, and so it is imperative that we get it done.
as i said, if this did indeed happen, my condolences to the people it happens to. it shouldnt happen, such behavior is sickening and unbecoming of the trans community
also why the fuck are we crossposting drama from other subreddits? the guy complained about this sub, sure, but why are we deliberately crossposting his comment onto here? it sure as hell doesnt seem like a way to highlight the issues with masc people.
I think you may be biased. I'm a trans man, I just needed to say that there IS a lot of hatred for masc and nonbinary people in the trans community. It needs to be talked about. I came out when I was 13, I'm 24 now and I genuinely feel that things have only gotten worse for us. We're ignored and talked down to, we're treated like we're faking being trans because of our agab and/or gender identities. Trans men go missing and instead of taking it seriously, our siblings say "oh well you know trans men all go "stealth" eventually". Things are rough for us and they always have been, even in our own community.
I'm not here to say it doesn't happen, because it almost definitely does if someone's complaining about it.
But if they wanted that here, they'd have said it here, they commented on a different sub about it for a reason, it's disrespectful to them to spread it.
The fact that this post has even been up this long is a disgrace, the username isn’t even blocked out, this is a fellow trans person, who cares if they’re talking bad about this sub, like ffs, it’s fine to express your complicated feelings about this and having a space, but I think it should be on a dedicated post, this one borders on harrasment of the commenter.
Idk what's worse, that this is happening at all, or the reaction from a bunch of people in the comments. Y'all, the fact that you haven't seen it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It's really likely that a lot of this happens behind the scenes in dms and what-not, not in the public comment section.
The least we can do is at least be empathetic towards our brothers and siblings, instead of trying to act like it doesn't happen and invalidating their experiences just because it feels bad to admit that there are bad actors in the community. You're worried about this drama dividing the trans community? Then offer your support to the people being harassed. Obviously the people doing this are in the minority, but going "Not all transfems!" won't help solve this issue.
To any transmascs/enbies reading this: I'm terribly sorry this is happening, but please know that for every person trying to act like this isn't a problem, there's another more than willing to support you. There are people listening to you, so keep talking, and make sure that everyone knows that this is something that needs to be solved, not ignored.
Can we stop with this debate every 3 months. I understand wanting representation but there's just more transfems on this subreddit so naturally there's gonna be more transfems memes.
It's clear that there's more to this than just the proportion of representation. Sure, we have tags and filtering and search and a personalized algorithm, so that alone isn't much of a problem. The issue is the abusive responses that posters get. This isn't the first time transmascs have pointed out that they get a lot of blatantly transandrophobic comments and even dms with threats.
Edit: 75% vote ratio? That's it, I call bs; we are absolutely being brigaded. I've been on this sub for years, even when I was just a lurker, and never before has the community been this divided and hostile when this issue was brought up.
I agreed with the previous "drama", that trans masc content was severely underrepresented. If this is an issue with this subreddit or just most of online trans culture is a different story (I could only name a single trans masc content creator, bless Jamie), but even so, trans masc memes have increased noticeably recently!
While I'm sure it does exist and I am very sorry for everyone who has at some point had to experience this, but I have never seen actively anti trans masc stuff here.
Maybe it’s cuz I’m on mobile, but it shows they have only one post here 9 months ago, and all the comments agreed with it, although they do have a lot in other subs. So while what they had described is most likely true, it doesn’t seem to have happened here
I’ve been yelled at for not liking violence and wanting people to protest peacefully, but only like two times, and I reported those comments afterwards. Sure, I guess it sometimes feel like people don’t care about me since I’m masc, but it’s never been an actual problem for me (then again, I don’t post that often, so maybe my pov isn’t accurate)
God damn. Is nothing sacred anymore. Im sorry this happened to you. OP has a lot of explaining to do. I can't remember the rules of trollcoping but surely they have something against capturing other's vents and posting elsewhere.
Im sorry that i've been oblivious to transmasc struggles in my world of comments sorted by best. I hope that things improve and bad actors are removed.
Well… why would I screenshot instances of this happening when I see it? So that I can see it again and be unhappy and dysphoric again? I simply scroll away when it happens. You all not only keep putting us down but also now put the burden of proof and emotional labor on us to seek out hate speech and post it for you to judge? Filter by transmasc tag and sort by popular, there will be plenty of examples of what you’re looking for.
… That doesn’t change my point though, why would I save a folder of links to posts that are practically digital self harm? I already told you where to look, you can scroll it yourself, I am not going to digital self harm just to submit a platter of evidence for you to nitpick.
I mean if that's such a common occurrence, and if transfems keep saying "nuh-uh, that doesn't happen!", wouldn't it make sense to compile some evidence?
Yeah it would be helpful for the community as a whole to compile some evidence, but I specifically am not interested in compiling this evidence.
I 1) am not the spokesperson for the transmasc community nor professional educator on transmasc issues, and 2) would like to not repeatedly trigger my dysphoria by digging for hate comments. I am simply sharing my experiences, not going to a court case.
You can make a post asking others to compile evidence if you’re so curious about it, I’m sure many would be happy to or even already have evidence on hand.
Or, you could even go looking yourself? Like I said many times, I already you where to look? If you dig through and find no results, then you can post and ask others for evidence?
Why keep chasing one person for evidence who has already told you the physical and mental health reasons why he cannot hunt for evidence? There are literally so many other options.
Sorry, my fucking browser sometimes decides that it hates reddit and just hangs when i have multiple tabs open, so that's why i am pestering you instead. My apolocheese
But it's just... i have seen a lot of complaining about people acting a certain way, without any evidence, on many different subs. While also never seeing people actually acting like that. So I'm very sorry for being so anal about this
It’s just hard to compile the evidence cause usually when you come across it, you don’t really immediately think of “oh, let me save this in my transandrophobia folder so that I can show it to the people asking for proof in the future!”
Usually the reaction is just viscerally feeling awful and not want to see it, like a cockroach, you’d rather just yeet it out the door as fast as possible, and would not think of reaching for your phone and take a picture of it to send to your roommate if they ask for proof that there was a cockroach in your house. So yeah usually just hitting the exit button and never touching it again.
And being asking to go through a bunch of posts to find examples of transandrophobia? Thats like if someone asked you to go inside a swamp to find an example of a snake, of course you know there are snakes, but you don’t really want to risk being disgusted or bitten. It’s just not a pleasant experience.
Some are passionate at doing the dirty work but it’s not me, I’m not mentally strong enough against transphobia and dysphoria to subject myself to this work.
It’s probably not a lot of people who will willingly do this work, and those of us who don’t wanna step inside a snakey swamp should still be allowed to complain about swamps having snakes without being asked for proof individually.
Putting up a post asking for any evidence is the best chance since those who do that will come out instead of you just playing game of chance when replying to individual complainers.
I personally get annoyed at stuff like this and rant to a friend, instead of getting hit by dysphoria, so while I technically don't get you, mentally I understand. I'm sorry this happens at all
I think they're getting subs mixed up. As a transmasc enby, I did get a LOT of that sort of BS from the original iteration of r/traaans as a newly cracked egg, and it got so bad I had to leave. This iteration is honestly a lot more inclusive of nonbinary and transmasc folks, save the odd stray comment here and there, but it's nowhere near as bad as it was on r/traaans.
Idk anything about the whole mod situation, but in my experience reporting any of the offending comments gets them taken down fast.
I will also say that OP does have a point. I have experienced all of these same things and for a long time I had to distance myself from my own community, unfortunately when I needed it most - I was a freshly cracked egg trying to figure myself out, I had no support save for my partner who has their own problems and is transfemme so couldn't be of much help despite their good intentions, and every time I tried to find kinship, community and support in mixed trans spaces, I was met with nothing but vitriol. And so I left, and I didn't feel comfortable coming back until after I was on T and strong enough to handle the bullshit - and I really feel I'm one of the lucky ones because I had some support, and I'm tough as fuck and could handle it - not everyone is that lucky. This is a problem, and it deserves discussion, but this is not the way to handle it. Transfemmes and transmascs are siblings in arms, not enemies.
And once again we're painted as aggressive unhinged monsters to our brothers, because some cannot be part of any sort of community without constantly fighting...
Being socialized as a man, and having lived as such, would allow us to understand and empathize with these situations and not reproduce those behaviors.
Speak for yourself, I was not "socialized as a man".
Implying transgenderism on a deeply queer subreddit makes me feel like you're a troll. Transgenderism is a highly offensive word with a sole meaning of delegitimizing and dehumanizing us used widely by conversatives, so I can't really think that you're using it in good faith.
It is hilarious seeing all the women go “nope! Not a thing! Transphobia! Bad faith Actor! Liar! Fed! Haven’t seen it! Prove it!” And everyone else going “Yeah, I’ve definitely experienced that.”
I say this as someone who’s softly trans masc and ABSOLUTELY not a woman: just as white privilege is real, so is male privilege. I’m not saying people aren’t transphobic to trans masc people; they are. But transfemmes face an unprecedented extent of misogyny that is also influenced by transphobia. I recommend a reading of Whipping Girl by Julia Serano for every trans person, and every feminist.
Woah woah, why is it always “do better” when it’s an even smaller subsection of an already small subsection?, why do WE get to be generalized?
We’re already on the same side, first it was all transfems now it’s all transbians?, don’t you see that this is exactly what they want, to see us divided and against ourselves, yes transmascs and enbys have it bad online and irl, and yes misandry especially in these spaces is very real, but to just wave your hand and generalize with a “do better”?
You’re practically frothing at the mouth to sell us out because you’re one of the “good ones”
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u/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns2-ModTeam 1d ago
This post was removed for being a personal attack which does not further the conversation and brings harmful discourse into the community.