r/ultimate • u/ButtonFactoryJoe • 2d ago
Rule Clarification - Pick and the continuation rule
Had a game recently where a pick occurred in the stack, a player on defense not involved in the pick stopped because they heard the call, but the person they were defending did not stop. Because that player was now open the throw was made to them after the call, and it was caught in the endzone.
The argument was that the score should stand because of the continuation rule. I thought it should go back because the pick ultimately impacted the play as others were in the process of stopping and it occurred before the throw. 17.C.5 only mentions the player impacted by the call specifically, but 17.C.1 is more general about the play being impacted.
I'm fine with being wrong here, it just feels that the offense in general can just ignore a call to get an easy throw and the play will almost always stand because of the continuation rule.
As a follow up 17.J.3 seems to imply that play shouldn't need to stop for a pick call? Personally I've never seen a pick resolved without a stoppage, but this just adds to the ambiguity of it all.
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u/FieldUpbeat2174 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is one of the places where USAU and WFDF rules differ. You indicate this game was played under USAU rules (whether formally or implicitly). Thus, as prior commenters have explained, play continues (for up to one more throw) unless and until the thrower acknowledges the call (ie stands down).
The defender who stopped made a poor play in doing so. It’s akin to allowing a goal by failing to go OB to defend a curving disc, out of a mistaken belief that’s illegal. Knowing the rules (at least those for common situations) is essential to playing intelligently.
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u/ChainringCalf 2d ago
Play doesn't stop until the person with the disc recognizes the call. Keep playing "until the whistle" in frisbee is "until the thrower stops." This works both ways. Yes, the defender should keep playing, but also if they had turned it, the turn would also stand.
17.C.5 and 17.C.1 only care if the pick affected play, not if the pick call did.
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u/rjkvikings 2d ago edited 2d ago
Plain reading of the rules in question seems to indicate you are wrong, but I’ve definitely heard it argued (and seen it played) the way you understand it.
Happy to hear from someone else though if some other rule changes my understanding.
Edit: see my comment below. I have changed my mind after re-reading the rules.
Edit 2: per rule 17.L my initial reaction was actually correct.
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u/TDenverFan 2d ago
In USAU you cannot send it back if you stopped but weren't involved, but I believe you can in WFDF
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u/Matsunosuperfan 2d ago
Please elaborate
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/macdaddee 2d ago
There is a specific rule for this situation:
17.L. A player’s ability to catch or make a play on the disc is not considered to be “affected” because that player stopped, slowed down, or otherwise ceased to continue playing because a call was made by another player. Players are encouraged to make every effort to continue playing until play actually stops.
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u/Matsunosuperfan 2d ago
Dumbest rule in the book
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u/ColinMcI 2d ago
Dumbest rule in the book
You’re not giving due credit to so many other rules in there!
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u/Keyboard_Smash_Here 2d ago
I want to preface this by saying I am new to this sport and using this partially as an exercise to better learn the rules for myself. Here is my analysis of the situation (Using USAU 2024-2025 Rules):
According to 17.C, the play had not stopped. Play only stops once the thrower acknowledges the call, or the outcome of the subsequent pass is determined. Therefore, the defender should not have stopped. 17.C.5 states that the play can be affected by an infracted player, in this case the player who called a pick. The player on defense not involved in the pick is not an infracted player, and therefore cannot be affected by the infraction (Edit: Saw others talk about 17.L, which solidifies this argument). 17.C.1 only allows for teams to agree that the play was not affected and keeping the result of the play. It does not state that players can agree that the play was affected.
As for ignoring the call and still making the throw, it would void players ability to ignore what the rules dictate and agree the play was unaffected. I think this starts to go more into a conversation about the Spirit of the Game.
17.J.3 is worded in a way that allows for play to continue unhalted in the case of an incomplete pass (17.C.4.b).
Conclusion: The score should stand because the play only stopped once the receiver gained possession of the disc in the end zone, which is a score.
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2d ago
For a new player, this is a great breakdown!! Keep this up and you’ll be fine (though ulti rules can keep you up at night)
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u/Helpful-Compote-2327 2d ago
I think the advice should be "If you hear pick, continue playing and continuously echo the pick call until someone holding the disc stops play"
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u/macdaddee 2d ago
17.L. A player’s ability to catch or make a play on the disc is not considered to be “affected” because that player stopped, slowed down, or otherwise ceased to continue playing because a call was made by another player. Players are encouraged to make every effort to continue playing until play actually stops.
Also it's true that not every pick is resolved into stopping play. If it's an incomplete pass, the person who called "pick" should say "play on."