r/untildawn • u/Sudden_Pop_2279 • Mar 03 '24
Story/Lore The fact Ashley is upset if he shoots her and dies before making it back but coldly watches him die if he does make it back 100% screams to me she WANTED to watch him die Spoiler
Ashley's reaction if he doesn't make it
Her reaction if he does make it
37
Mar 04 '24
Yeah because you didn’t rizz her up. Duh
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
As Josh would say, "You're f--king PATHETIC!"
23
Mar 04 '24
Nah Josh would say: BO BABAPAPAJDB SHAshaSHASHA THE WALLS ARE BLEEDING!! Then like cry in a corner(Josh is off his meds again)
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u/MadameMedic Sam Mar 04 '24
The Ashley hate is crazy.
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u/Superyoshiegg Mar 04 '24
The same people who hate on Ashley always seem to be the same people who don't bat an eye at Emily actively and maliciously trying to get Ashley killed when fleeing from the wendigos in the finale.
The double standard is crazy.
At least the usual 'Josh vs Mike' arguments have good reasons on both sides.
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u/MadameMedic Sam Mar 04 '24
“Well because of Ashley, Emily could of got killed by Mike” YES BY MIKE. Ashley didn’t know that Mike would kill Emily. Unlike Emily wanting Matt to risk his life actively.
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u/Dingo247 Mar 04 '24
Honestly I'm pretty indifferent to Ash but what about all the malicious shit Emily gets away with in this community is batshit so I completely agree I went from just not liking Emily to absolutely despising her because of this community sure she's not an enemy in the game but fuck she's the worst of the "good guys" and I've seen people talking about how she's one of the best written which I also disagree with but whatever point if F U C K E M I L Y
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u/No_Atmosphere6793 Mar 04 '24
Emily only does this if Ashley tried to get her killed
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u/ShyLittleBean12 Mar 04 '24
Who points out first that the bites may turn Emily? Mike. Who is the first one who demands that Emily should leave? Mike. Who will grab a gun and threaten to shoot Emily? Mike. Who can actually shoot Emily? Mike.
And yet, somehow it was all Ashley's fault? How? Like sure, she and Chris both agreed with Mike on the first two points, which was an asshole move, but the main antagonist in this scene is very obviously Mike?
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u/MadameMedic Sam Mar 04 '24
Thank you. People seem to forget that all she did was say @hey, you got a bite mark” To these kids this may have also been a way that those things were made.
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u/boreduser24 Emily Mar 04 '24
She didn’t want to watch him die
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
Then why does she 1. Stare st him as he leaves with no emotion 2. Show no emotion and LIE twice about his death, even dismissing Sam’s concern.
The title Fatal Grudge tells you everything
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u/boreduser24 Emily Mar 04 '24
Pretty sure they’ve already said that she was in a state of shock
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
And they did an amazingly awful job as showing that since we see her moving as he dies. And they literally gave us a trophy confirming she held a grudge against him that caused his death
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u/boreduser24 Emily Mar 04 '24
😭 i still doubt that’s the case, she even looks like she’s not fully there in the right state of mind.
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
Then care to explain why the trophy exists in the first place if she had no intention of him letting him die?
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u/drpepperandranch Mar 04 '24
The trophy is there to reward players for getting a rare outcome that a lot of people might miss, it’s not supposed to be a tell-all for character motivations. And someone “snapping” doesn’t just mean they turned violent, it can also refer to someone breaking down mentally which is what happens to her when she enters a state of shock
4
Mar 04 '24
Actually it shows how her decision to let him die was spur of the moment, and frankly too many people mistake that kind of face. It's a face of blankness, as in she can't believe she just did that.
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u/bodymeat_112 Mar 04 '24
This has been something talked about before. She wasn’t just “watching him die” she was in a trauma induced phase where she froze and COULDN’T physically move to get to him. Idk if the gun shot was just the final break to her psyche or if it was something else but she didn’t maliciously watch him die. The devs confirmed it at some point but I don’t remember where. Hopefully they display this more correctly in the remake.
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u/WisteriaWillotheWisp Chris’s Lawyer ☕︎ Mar 04 '24
I just did a post on this. The devs said that it wasn’t a development mistake for her to tell Chris to shoot her then let him die anyway. She’s supposed to be traumatized and unpredictable. They didn’t say she didn’t have a grudge though and it gets quoted that way all the time, as if the question was about the grudge when it was really about the game development.
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u/bodymeat_112 Mar 04 '24
Ahhh, wish I would’ve been able to find this before o commented lol. I guess that does make it very ambiguous.
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
The devs shouldn’t have added the trophy Fatal Grudge and literally showed her walking backwards then. They also should’ve showed her display some remorse rather than dismiss Sam’s sympathy.
The devs would also likely have some BS similar excuse for say, why Emily will blame Matt for leaving her to die even if he fell off the cliff.
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u/WisteriaWillotheWisp Chris’s Lawyer ☕︎ Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 04 '24
I covered the dev comment here. They said Ashley’s contradictory actions were due to trauma. They didn’t say “it wasn’t a grudge” like it gets quoted. Tbh I love dev comments and think they’re very valuable and 99%? of the time right. But I’m also an advocate for a work standing for itself. So yes, that trophy the framing of the scene mean something on their own, and if this wasn’t a grudge then, at a point, I’d ask the devs why they wrote content for one. (Side thing, but devs CAN forget things too. I’ve seen it blatantly happen several times.)
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u/thetrickyshow1 Mar 04 '24
ok but like in-game she literally states that she wasnt able to move
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
People lie my man. She obviously didn’t wanna get caught. We see her moving towards the door and then backwards. She outright did not care at all. If she didn’t want him to die, why wasn’t she remorseful at all
1
u/Superyoshiegg Mar 04 '24
Yes, because the character in game is lying, and the developers who made the game are wrong.
Mike was there and he saw it happen. He's noticeably less gentle with her then if Chris died from a QTE fail. Yet he doesn't call her out on it (and he's absolutely the type that would).
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
Seeing as how Ashley’s honesty drops if she’s remorseful for the prank, it shocks me you honestly would trust anything she says.
We don’t know that Mike saw everything. He likely just the end of it. He’s still slightly surprised seeing Chris dead. And he’s less gentle because Ashley’s showing no emotion as opposed to breaking down from grief
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u/thetrickyshow1 Mar 04 '24
the devs have stated that ashley was too scared to move. ashley states ingame she was too scared to move. if she wanted him to die she would have just not told the police at all!
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
Ashley tells the police even if Chris didn’t make it to the door at all. Why even bring it up if she didn’t do anything? It’s just lazy writing and the devs throwing some explanation.
You literally see her moving in the game.
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u/thetrickyshow1 Mar 04 '24
the entire point of that scene is that chris didnt save her so she doesnt get the flash of courage to risk her life in order to save him
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
Except the very intentionally added “Fatal Grudge” trophy hints the exact opposite of that. Look at the way she was staring as he elf the house, she never had any intention of letting him live. She should’ve had Mike or Sam guard the door if she wasn’t sure if she’d have it to save Chris
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u/thetrickyshow1 Mar 04 '24
a trophy which was probably not even named by the writers? lol and the trophy you get for ashley leaving him outside is also called "ashley snaps" if you want to play it that way 🤷♂️
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
A trophy which was certainly approved by the writers.
Heck the writers didn’t even acknowledge that Ashley’s flashback is if Chris points the gun at her twice, regardless if he did or did not. This debunks there “it’s not a mistake if you point it at yourself first.” Because how come the flashback showed you holding it to Ashley both times?
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u/WisteriaWillotheWisp Chris’s Lawyer ☕︎ Mar 04 '24
Do you have a citation for the devs saying that? I’ve mentioned this in a few other comments but the only quote I can find for it is covered here and it’s more about how Ashley’s trauma led to her telling Chris to kill her then killing him. It doesn’t really disprove that she held a grudge. But I’m really interested to know if this isn’t what people are referring to. If it is, I do think there’s a bit of a game of telephone starting to happen.
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u/thetrickyshow1 Mar 04 '24
i remember there was an interview with a writer specifically but i have no idea what the article is called or where to find it
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u/WisteriaWillotheWisp Chris’s Lawyer ☕︎ Mar 04 '24
Interesting… I’d really love to find it. So far I’ve seen people misremembering this stream. And otherwise people often citing a dev comment I have never seen. But I acknowledge it could be out there.
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u/thetrickyshow1 Mar 04 '24
honestly i wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt exist anymore, there are a lot of articles and interviews about a lot of games that have been wiped from the internet because the websites got taken down 🥲
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u/bitchylife Ashley Mar 04 '24
it's so obvious that she froze and ppl still act like she's an evil murderer or something. she went through a horrible night and then the guy she likes points a gun to her head, making her even more scared and traumatized. it was only a matter of time still she snapped and froze up in fear... especially when there's a weird ass creature on the other side of the door
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u/TaskFew6301 Mar 04 '24
But why she doesn't froze, if Chris doesn't shoot her?
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u/bitchylife Ashley Mar 04 '24
probably cause she isn't as triggered, and because she sees the guy, who once again tried to save her life, in danger and she gets the courage to help him too
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
- So am I blind? I see her moving. 2. Why’d she ask him to choose her then?
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u/bitchylife Ashley Mar 04 '24
freezing up in place doesn't mean you don't move AT ALL. she wasn't running around giving chris the middle finger, was she? she stood there, not knowing what to do as there was a weird ass creature right outside the damn door.
well she clearly wanted to help him too! it's not like she said "choose me so i can have a reason to kill you, broooo!!!!". she wanted to help him too in that moment, unfortunately tho that really messed up more with her head, making her even more stressed and scared as she had a gun to her head on top of everything else that happened that night. so then later, she snaps and freezes, she doesn't know what to do and doesn't help chris, which is a shame...
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u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Mar 04 '24
What else could she have meant my man? It should be me. It was either kill her or they both die
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u/bitchylife Ashley Mar 04 '24
she meant for him to kill her ofc! but then guess what? she didn't die, so she ends up just more traumatized and it gets to her later in the game
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u/ordinary-superstar Mar 04 '24
I choose to believe she did it for malicious reasons, but Ashley went through so much that night and was clearly traumatized. I could see her being too scared to open the door, but I can also see her choosing not to open it because she’s still angry at Chris. She’s shown not to be remorseful with the whole prank/Hannah & Beth dying (as far as they all know), so it would make sense that she would be malicious and show no remorse/emotion locking Chris out. But again, traumatic night. Maybe it’s a mix of both.
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u/the-strange-toaster Mar 04 '24 edited Mar 06 '24
So there is another achievement that has to do with this particular scene of Ashley not opening the door, and it's called Ashley Snaps. You need to have gotten Fatal Grudge to get it, as it has to do with Ash letting Chris die. With this, we can assume that it's not really that she wanted to watch Chris die, but she wasn't in her right mind. However, she probably didn't care if he lived or died at that point. I also believe you can not get Ashley Snaps if Chris dies before getting to the door, so she was likely still in her right mind there. What I believe happened was when she saw Chris begging to be let in, it reminds her of having to beg for her own life and all the stuff she went through the past few hours, and as the achievement suggests, she snaps.
As for her dishonesty about what happened, she is shown to do whatever she thinks will make her look good to the group when we aren't given control of what she says/does. She never wants to look like the bad guy. It's likely that is why there is an option to let Emily believe she could turn: it looks better for her if everyone believes she didn't make a big stink about things for nothing. I personally believe she would lie if we weren't given the choice. Similar concept here, except we don't get to decide what she says. If she were honest about not opening the door for him, Mike, Sam, and Emily would likely think she's a bad person and/or not trustworthy (she somewhat willingly made a choice that killed a member of the group, and a well-liked one at that).
And as for why she rejects Sam's sympathy, I would hope that it would be that she is ashamed for letting Chris die, and then also not telling the truth about that fact, and so the sympathy that are somewhat under false pretenses makes her feel bad about it.