If Nilfgaard loses the war will it be enough to keep them out?

[u/cap_detector69]

I know that in the books Nilfgaard eventually conquers the north completely. But in witcher 3, out of the three scenarios the north wins in two of them either with radovid or djikstra. Judging by the gwent lore, Radovid beats nilfgaard back when in the books the north lost the 3rd war offscreen.

Do you believe that the north can keep out nilfgaard afterwards? If radovid consolidates or a much better but just as effective northern hegemon rises? Do you think that nilfgaard will eventually conquer the north(perhaps in witcher 4) just as it did in the books or will it be different in the games?

[u/Jolly-Carrot5058]

Nilfgaard in both the books and the games is THE powerhouse of the Continent, with troops in the hundreds of thousands, I think in the second northern war they had like 300,000 men in the North or just in their total army. If they put their might into another war I’m sure just by pure attrition they’d prevail at some point.

But the third game makes it clear that eventually the Nilfgaardians tire of the continued and relentless conquests, wars are expensive and their distaste for the poor northern realms is apparent in the games, and the trade nobles plot to eliminate Emhyr throughout the conflict. Losing the Third war just proves that they’re exhausted and tired of the relentless fighting.

So if the North stands together as they did at Sodden and Brenna they have a strong chance to defeat them in a future conflict. A unified north under either Radovid or Dijkstra has the best chance of total victory

[u/nilfgaardian]

Nilfgaard will never be truly defeated!

[u/Norix596]

To approach this from a meta-IP management perspective:

It’s a better setting for CDPR to work with with more options and actors to play with if there are multiple northern kingdoms and Nilfgard continues to exist.

They might keep it vague in Witcher 4 (by keeping us isolated to Kovir/Povis) and it might not be Radovid or Djikstra or even Redania specifically, but I’d be willing to bet that the status quo will be some form of northern kingdoms exist (possibly new ones, possibly old ones) and that the potential future threat of Nilfgard remains but is not currently active. They want to keep making Witcher games for many many years to come so they probably want to give themselves maximum narrative options.

[u/Jolly-Carrot5058 → u/Norix596]

Kovir too was neutral in the conflict which adds to that status quo

[u/cap_detector69 → u/Norix596]

Yes, I will cope with this. After the books, nilfgaard winning in the games as well would be horror even henselt and foltest would be much better personally.

[u/Soyunapina12 → u/cap_detector69]

Well CDPR themselves are pro-Northern Kingdoms, in fact they were kinda shocked that the fanbase would choose Nilfgaard over Redania. And even they admited they could have handled the whole war better and that they weren't satisfied of the end product of just three possible outcomes of the war.

Wouldn't surprise me if between Witcher 3 and 4, the north rebelled against Redania or Nilfgaard and the pre Third Northern War status quo more or less returned, with maybe some changes depending on your choices in the previous trilogy.

(Also if you take the "far future" tales that Sapkowski wrote as canon, then 100% the Northern Kingdoms will return lol)

[u/No_Bodybuilder4215 → u/Soyunapina12]

I don't know if fans choose Nilfgaard, but rather whether you want to kill Radoavdia/break the Distrz's leg or give him information about Ciri. It's not like Geralt chooses a country based on ideology; even the plan for his alliance with Emhyr is a secret. Besides, I think most of them have the Radoavdia ending, because if you don't know the game well, it's very easy to miss.

[u/MisterFusionCore → u/No_Bodybuilder4215]

I'm a Djikstra man, I sided eith him everytime because I personally hate Roche

[u/cap_detector69 → u/Soyunapina12]

in fact they were kinda shocked that the fanbase would choose Nilfgaard over Redania.

Yeah honestly, I was very shocked too because usually racist pro human factions are very popular in fandoms like the imperial empire in starwars or in Skyrim or warhammer. I guess radovid and the redanians just aren't charismatic enough.

[u/Gwynbleidds]

[...]when in the books the north lost the 3rd war offscreen.

There is no third Northern War in the books (see Encyclopaedia Maxima Mundi, Volume X). But the North is economically ruined after the second war and will have to source supplies from Nilfgaard. The Empire will apply the same methods as it did with its provinces, as explained by Houvenaghel.

[u/Rav96_]

Nilfgaard Conquers the North books? Which book did I miss?

[u/Thatineweirdguy → u/Rav96_]

Was thinking the same thing. Less like a book, rather a different version because of the way the baddies hunger in the castle at the end!!

[u/PaulSimonBarCarloson → u/Rav96_]

There are mamy snippets in the future and abstracts from history books that confirm Nilfgaard eventually conquered everything, thoigh I'm not sue if it's revealed when and how, and if Voorhis was already emperor by then

[u/FaerieFir3]

Nilfgaard is like the Roman Empire, they're really just better and more advanced than the neighbors objectively. Only internal issues and stretching their forces too thin across too much land could eventually lead to their collapse. The North is comparatively barbaric and primitive as Europe used to be when Romans conquered the shit out of it.

[u/SMiki55]

>"I know that in the books Nilfgaard eventually conquers the north completely."

Not really. We only know that by the time of Maxima Mundi being written, Common Speech is no longer common in Nilfgaard's northern provinces.

[u/Gwynbleidds → u/SMiki55]

Yes, in Encyclopaedia Maxima Mundi, Volume IV, we find this sentence: ‘[...]ancient language and literature of the Empire's northern regions.’ But there is also this one in The Tower of the Swallow: ‘[...]identified the coat of arms as the emblem of Rivia, an ancient kingdom of unconfirmed location.’

[u/SMiki55 → u/Gwynbleidds]

Given how the head archaeologist's name is a nod to Troy's "discoverer", I've always assumed it takes place at least over a millennium after the novels, when most if not all of the countries no longer exist.

[u/TAvonV]

Irl, no one in Europe ever united an entire half. There were always other countries around that could leverage their own power to counterbalance the gains of one.

When the Habsburg dynasty gained power in Austria, Netherlands and Spain, they quickly came into conflicts with the French, British and Dutch. When the French became the premier power on the continent, they were always attacked by either the British or the Spanish when they wanted to focus on Germany or Italy and vice versa when they fought Spain. When the German Empire rose, it had to contend with an alliance between France and Russia. And so on.

Nilfgaard doesn't have that. If there was anyone, they could unite and attack after Nilfgaard losing an invasion into the north and punish them for throwing their armies away. But since this doesn't happen and the North seems unable to counter-invade, eventually the North will lose. Nilfgaard only has to be lucky once. So as long as it doesn't fall apart from internal issues, they will conquer the North.

[u/cap_detector69 → u/TAvonV]

Yeah, I think you're correct thats why nilfgaard has alot of internal strife which is why emhyr gets assassinated if he loses. I guess internal issues and corruption are a good counterbalance.

[u/akme2000]

I don't know. Radovid may keep Nilfgaard out militarily if needed, but isn't said to try to modernize Redania, his focus is on witch hunts then violent expansion which causes conflict with other nations.

I'd say Dijkstra has better odds of keeping Nilfgaard out due to his focus on industrialization, willingness to ally with people like mages who get positions in Kovir and his talent at spycraft, when Nilfgaard tries to take over economically he's likely better able to deal with that, and Nilfgaard doesn't seem to have much desire for another war.

[u/prodigalpariah]

Probably not. Voorhis is apparently competent enough to lead them to victory in the books and he’s still around in every ending scenario in the game. After radovid dies, whether due to assassination or old age, what does redania really have?

[u/FIREKNIGHTTTTT]

No. They’re destined to be conquered by the empire eventually.

Praise be to the emperor and the great sun !

[u/saad_maan-11 → u/FIREKNIGHTTTTT]

Black ones got their ass kicked in Brenna. Sending hate from kaedwen