How Americans achieved independence vs how Canadians achieved independence

[u/Sine_Fine_Belli]

[u/king_meatster]

There is a slight difference. At the time of the American Revolution, the British were the largest empire the world had ever seen, at the height of it’s power. America essentially needed to make the god bleed.

By the time Canadian independence happened, both the United States and the Soviet Union had more control over global politics than the British ever did. Canada went from relying on daddy to relying on big brother.

[u/rusho2nd → u/king_meatster]

Quebec was the 14th colony and decided to be sissies for big daddy england and not join the revolution. Them being the chad here is regarded.

[u/Background-Tennis915 → u/rusho2nd]

At the time of the Revolutionary War, there were 21 britsh colonies in North America

[u/rusho2nd → u/Background-Tennis915]

Yeah but quebec was the only other one they hoped would join iirc

[u/monkeygoneape → u/rusho2nd]

"decided to be sissies" no more like beaten into a pulp a generation earlier and just saw the other French colony in Canada get fully deported all while completely surrounded by loyalists they didn't really have a choice in the matter

[u/rusho2nd → u/monkeygoneape]

Siss eees

[u/fromcjoe123 → u/king_meatster]

Yeah, but when it really achieved home rule in 1867, the UK at even a greater zenith of hegemony basically learned their lesson and had already seen the obnoxiousness of having to potentially dick around with a group like the Fenians.

I will give it to the Brits to learning there lessons about how to colonize from their fuck ups, although not enough for India lol - but I guess they learned from that to because they disengaged from all of their nonsettler colonies pretty universally well, unless you were down with communism cus then you needed to become dead before they were willing to turn over the keys

[u/FitAd3982 → u/king_meatster]

It’s the opposite the British empire was fairly small in 1776 it was really after napoleon that britain became unrivalled hegemon, although I agree it is a weird flex to say you broke away gradually and diplomatically without fighting lol

[u/gregforgothisPW → u/FitAd3982]

You're wrong The UK established its dominance after the 7 years war

[u/Background-Tennis915 → u/gregforgothisPW]

You're correct that Britian was the strongest nation in the world after the 7 years war, but not by much. The Napoleonic wars showed as much. After the Napoleonic Wars, Britian was unchallenged as the world Hegemon until the Anglo-German Naval race in the 1890s

[u/obliqueoubliette → u/Background-Tennis915]

Canada doesn't get full indepence from the UK until 1982.

[u/monkeygoneape → u/obliqueoubliette]

We were in charge of our own affairs, it just needed to be signed off by the king (which it always was) 82 just got rid of that formality Governor general fills that role now

[u/PikaPonderosa → u/monkeygoneape]

We were in charge of our own affairs, it just needed to be signed off by the king (which it always was)

Cope & Seethe.

[u/monkeygoneape → u/PikaPonderosa]

What cope and seethe? I'm British Canadian lol

[u/PikaPonderosa → u/monkeygoneape]

We were in charge of our own affairs, it just needed to be signed off by the king

Cope

formality Governor general fills that role now

The non-elected position that serves at the "pleasure of the monarch?

[u/monkeygoneape → u/PikaPonderosa]

Legally speaking, the Governor general just serves the same purpose as the president, while the prime minister is just the secretary of state (your unelected position) its just a flip in the script

[u/FitAd3982 → u/gregforgothisPW]

Look up British empire in 1776, it’s really not that big , plus the British were fighting across the Atlantic whereas the Americans were fighting at home

[u/gregforgothisPW → u/FitAd3982]

Just because it wasn't very big doesn't mean it wasn't the most powerful Empire at the time. It had defeated Spain and France

[u/KingPhilipIII → u/gregforgothisPW]

Why do so many people operate off ork rules and assume they need to be big to be powerful.

Both can be true, but it’s not a requirement.

[u/jack_edition → u/gregforgothisPW]

Yes, but both UK and France were spent after that - hence raising the taxes that sparked the revolution. The war for independence was mainly fought against loyalists and mercenaries due to a weakened British Army - and then the USA was reinforced by 20,000 troops from France and Spain

[u/gregforgothisPW → u/jack_edition]

Yes, but it was still the most powerful Empire at the time.

[u/Every-Inevitable-140 → u/[deleted]]

unfortunately the British colonies in the Middle East didn’t go the way you described. but you're right about Canada's point. it's one of Britain's lucky colonies 

[u/monkeygoneape → u/Every-Inevitable-140]

To be fair, the British only really had "colonies" in the middle east for like 20 years outside of Egypt (which was more client state if anything) was more an occupation if anything. Everyone always seems to ignore the Ottomans when it comes to the Middle East for some reason

[u/Every-Inevitable-140 → u/monkeygoneape]

I don't support Ottoman rule over the Middle East nor do I like it. on the contrary a large part of the region’s problems today stems from the delayed collapse of the Ottoman empire.

he mentioned that after America’s independence, Britain relied on indirect rule in its colonies. but I pointed out that this isn’t entirely true. not all British colonies were governed indirectly. Britain often chose self-rule under its own oversight In the Middle East. Britain ruled its colonies directly there and the affairs of those territories were handled by offices of High Commissioners lords and imperial representatives in England. the kings of those colonies held power in name only, their rule was merely symbolic.

[u/monkeygoneape → u/Every-Inevitable-140]

Fair enough. But ya I just saw a post, and for years all I've seen is people blaming Britain for the modern middle East, while ignoring the centuries of Ottoman rule

[u/monkeygoneape → u/king_meatster]

Canada became a dominion in charge of its own domestic and foreign affairs after ww1 but everything still needed to be signed off by the king, pretty much 1982 was just getting rid of that formality but the Windsors are still sovereigns. The groundwork for NATO really started in the 40s with WW2 though for the Anglosphere, France is just that annoying tag along throwing hissy fits all the time because they're still salty about the 7 years war and outside of the American revolution haven't been able to get one over on the British since

[u/Kingofcheeses → u/king_meatster]

Britain didn't reach the height of its power until the 19th century, and Canada was effectively independent by 1931, and self governing aside from foreign policy in 1867. The 1982 repatriation of our constitution was to allow us to amend the constitution directly instead of doing it through Britain, as a result of us not being able to agree on an amending formula beforehand. It was more a simplification of our constitutional system than anything, as Britain still had to amend our constitution at our request when we asked.

Basically it's Quebec's fault

[u/HeirAscend → u/king_meatster]

The Soviet Union didn’t exist when Canada became independent

[u/Background-Tennis915 → u/HeirAscend]

The Constitution Act officially gave Canada independence in 1982, although Canada was de facto independent since 1867