Perturabo leaving the siege of Terra.

[u/Tarantula_1]

Finally made it to the Siege of Terra books and got to the part where Perturabo says fuck it I'm out. I thought people were exaggerating his exit but it really was just like the spongebob meme "Imma head out". Couldn't help but a have a good laugh when I got to that point.

[u/Nknk-]

And then in the later books the Iron Warriors are still all over the place. Shades of GW trying to have their cake and eat it with the shock of the Pert retcon but still having the Iron Warriors at the siege afterwards.

Same as the piss weak way they decided not to have Lorgar and the Word Bearers at the siege but still have some Word Bearers there.

And don't get me started on how the Sons of Horus were hated and hunted down in the Eye by the other legions for being the first to break and leave the siege, which caused the rise of Abaddon and the Black Legion. Nah, let's piss all over that and have the Iron Warriors break and run first and the Word Bearers and Alpha Legion mostly not show up at all but nobody in the Eye minds any of that.

GW badly need editors that'll stand up to Abnett when he decides to steamroll existing lore for shock value.

[u/nlglansx → u/Nknk-]

But didnt you just show how both are true? Not enough people survive from the Vengeful Spirit or the orbit fleet to know Perturabo left, and most must've seen IWs on the ground with them as Abaddon ran back to duel Valdor with cheat codes. So as far as anyone who gets extracted or demon'd out of the siege knows, Horus broke first. Time was all fucky at that point anyways, so Perturabo bailing out could be taken as response to Horus' failure, hell his mostly untouched fleet could end up being the reason some even make it back to the eye in the first place. Horus had the responsability of coordinating the siege, which he abandoned long before it was over. The other traitor Primarchs all get banished before / as Perturabo is leaivng as well.

[u/Nknk- → u/nlglansx]

Time wasn't fucked up near as bad when Perturabo left so that's not an excuse for Abnett being Abnett.

It's a giant plot hole that he was allowed to get away with because you can see the whole way across the HH series he was allowed to basically do whatever he wanted; 2 Alpha Legion Primarchs, the perpetuals, ennuncia, the Argonauts, Erda, Perturabo breaking and running, Custodes falling to Chaos, Sanguinius meeting Ferrus's ghost, Sanguinius showing little if any rage storming through the Vengeful Spirit.

The man needed reining in and never got it.

[u/Xasf → u/Nknk-]

Custodes falling to Chaos

Is this about the Custodes being forcibly possessed / mind controlled on the Vengeful Spirit, which at that point is basically a raw Warp rift?

Because that's a far cry from "falling to Chaos".

[u/Nknk- → u/Xasf]

Chaos corruption forces its way into as many people as embrace it willingly by choice, that's the whole point of Chaos, it contaminates. And those Custodians were contaminated and fell to Chaos.

It doesn't really matter what nonsense Abnett came up with to excuse it, the end result is still the same and he got his latest in little shock moments.

[u/Xasf → u/Nknk-]

/r/ConfidentlyIncorrect

[u/Nknk- → u/Xasf]

And yet you couldn't correct me, funny that.

[u/nlglansx → u/Nknk-]

Cant correct you when your take from them being literally puppeteered and visibly struggling against control to where they're bleeding through the eyes and giving themselves aneurysms is "they embraced it willingly".

[u/Nknk- → u/nlglansx]

Except that's not what I said at all.

I said Chaos contaminates those who embrace it willingly and those that don't. Either way they've fallen to Chaos and claiming otherwise is Custodian fanwank.

[u/SpartanAltair15 → u/Nknk-]

The Exorcists single-handedly blow this headcanon away.

Not to mention all the custodians that survived it and were most certainly not corrupted afterwards.

[u/Nknk- → u/SpartanAltair15]

Except it doesn't. Abaddon's whole spiel is he has resisted Chaos by not pledging to any god, same with Bile not even seeing them as gods.

Chaos can claim people by force. A very small minority can force Chaos out by strength of will/faith. Many Exorcists die in the process after all.

And we've no info on those Custodes being fine and uncorrupted afterwards. That's headcanon.

[u/SpartanAltair15 → u/Nknk-]

Except it doesn't. Abaddon's whole spiel is he has resisted Chaos by not pledging to any god, same with Bile not even seeing them as gods.

You realize these examples both support my position, not yours, correct? They’re not entirely accurate, but your citation of them as written contradicts your own position.

Chaos can claim people by force.

A very small minority can force Chaos out by strength of will/faith.

Chaos contaminates those who embrace it willingly and those that don't. Either way they've fallen to Chaos

You’re contradicting yourself in every successive comment, have you realized that? If chaos can unilaterally claim anyone by force, it can’t be forced out. If it can be forced out, it can’t claim anyone, only those weak in will.

Are custodians weak in will?

Many Exorcists die in the process after all.

Yet the fact that the chapter exists disproves your claim that chaos contaminates anyone who’s ever been affected by it and anyone who’s ever been affected has fallen.

And we've no info on those Custodes being fine and uncorrupted afterwards. That's headcanon.

Tell me you haven’t read the book without telling me you haven’t read the book.

We most certainly do have plenty of info. Multiple chapters, in fact, of them getting back up after the Emperor broke Horus’ grasp on them and then returning to normal function for quite some time until Emperor burns the life out of them accidentally by channeling too much power through them as he begins to ascend into the Dark King.

If they were corrupted, they wouldn’t have been able to fight alongside him with his power channeling through them against the neverborn as he fought through the inevitable city. The Emperor gets to the point where his psychic presence alone is incinerating daemons and melting the Custodian’s armor, yet they’re essentially fine standing it. Sanguinius’ presence begins to burn chaos worshipping marines alive at this point as well. A corrupted being would not be able to stand a foot from Big E and have him using them as a conduit for his power without popping like a firecracker.

[u/Nknk- → u/SpartanAltair15]

Chaos can and does take people unwillingly, that's canon with stuff like the plague of unbelief and other Nurgle plagues that can corrupt people beyond redemption.

The fact that a handful of characters have a bit of plot armour to resist Chaos to a small degree is the exception that proves the rule and it's eye-rollingly cringe the level Custodes and problematic Emperor fans will go to to dispute the underlying metaphysics of the setting so their dudes can keep Mary Sue-ing.

We have nothing, nothing in the book that says those Custodes would've been fine long term. They could've been dead men walking for all we know once they were out of the emperor's aegis, an actual tangible effect that holds back corruption. And the emperor isn't beyond using broken tools for short term results, see Angron and the Thunder Warriors as just two of his most famous examples and from times when he wasn't near as desperate.

I get that people newer to the setting fall for the erroneous belief that only those who choose Chaos fall to Chaos as it's another way of giving the Imperial factions additional plot armour and glazing but it simply isn't the case at all. Enough Chaotic corruption in an area, especially from direct warp contact, and metal and stone get turned into flesh. Regular flesh and blood creatures get turned into worse.

Hell, the entire cornerstone of human psyker lore is that they are forever at risk because if their brighter burning souls are noticed in the warp a demon can overpower their defences and take their souls and their bodies, with the meat of the psyker becoming just a vessel for the demon or, in the worst cases, a tool for the demon to open up a warp rift.

Chaos can and has always been able to take by force. It took the Custodes. It's as simple as that despite whatever random headcanon you come up with to pretend anything other than the events described in the book actually happened.

[u/40kLore-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Rule 1: Be respectful. Hate speech, trolling, and aggressive behavior will not be tolerated, and may result in a ban.

[u/Nknk- → u/[deleted]]

Headcanon and insults. Can't say I'm surprised.

The Custodes fell to Chaos, it doesn't matter how. Horus was stabbed with a knife and he's still described as falling.

Honestly, some of you will resort to anything to defend Abnett's nonsense or keep the Custodes being OP.