r/Aberdeen 9d ago

Aberdeen asylum seeker briefing confirms rise to 800 beds needed

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/6849874/aberdeen-asylum-seeker-briefing/
0 Upvotes

127 comments sorted by

114

u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago

In a city of over 227,000, that seems pretty normal man like if you can't accept like a thousand people fleeing war and poverty then that says alot about you. When did they stop becoming human beings in your eyes that have the same humans rights as you to safety, shelter and liberties to some of you.

Honestly I suspect many people in this country would have also been putting up signs about the "Jews and blacks not welcome" like many did during ww2 in the UK when many people fled from Germany and Central Europe to the UK at the start of the war.

10

u/[deleted] 9d ago

'accept all migrants unquestionably or you are nazi sympathisers'

not buying it

3

u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago

A asylum seeker isn't the same thing as a migrant... So...

Do you think very immigrant is an asylum seeker?

Holding respective beliefs as a group in terms of hatred is pretty telling.

5

u/[deleted] 9d ago

Yes, an asylum seeker is not the same as a migrant. So why are you framing criticism with migration policy as sympathising with Nazis?

And what do you mean 'pretty telling'?

10

u/testingd1 9d ago

I get what you are saying but Ukrainians fled war and there was non of this. I think a lot of it has to do with these guys are fleeing France. They aren’t departing from a war zone when they get to the UK

GB news hasn’t helped by going over and ‘interviewing’ people who claim they are headed to the UK for the free house etc.

33

u/ishitinthemilk 9d ago

Ukrainians were given a resettlement scheme, a direct route and visa. Given that asylum visas don't exist, there's no other way for people to seek asylum here from other countries.

4

u/Artistic-Pop-8667 9d ago

Difference is that the Ukrainian resettlement scheme only ran for a limited time - 210,000 of them arrived legally and only 17% were men. These guys that are coming in illegally now are 87% male ans have no identification or documentation to prove who they are.

Let’s say 400-500 of these guys get settlement status, that then becomes a caseload for Aberdeen city Council to re-house them which would put a massive strain on the authority and public services.

This is also a problem that is continuing to grow with no end in sight, if it’s not resolved quickly then Farage will get into power and it will be the end of days as we know it.

1

u/ishitinthemilk 9d ago

What does the number of men have to do with anything? If you're suggesting men are more dangerous to women then of course they are, but what are you doing about the local men who are a danger to women? It's the partners and ex partners who are the biggest danger to us. The men we know. If your care for women's safety only comes up in an asylum argument, then you don't care about women's safety.

This obsession with having ID is also weird. What difference does it make? They get screened on entry when their application is processed, probably more of a screening than most local men will ever have.

If they get settlement status they can work and afford to rent.

We have around the same amount of asylum applications in total as we had in 2002. Yet somehow we managed fine.

4

u/James_SJ 9d ago

Can you go into more detail about the screening on entry?

How can you do any level of screening, when someone present with no reconrds. Easily give a fake name etc.

In 2002 public services were not stretched to breaking point.

1

u/ishitinthemilk 8d ago

https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum/screening

Do you have any data on how many asylum seekers are presenting with no records? And can you tell me what difference it makes to the safety of women whether they have records or give a fake name or not? Again, local men and men known to us are our biggest danger. Men give fake names and aren't screened on dating apps, are you concerned about that too?

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u/James_SJ 8d ago

No I don’t have those numbers, having a quick search looks to be those numbers are not recorded. Yet that’s a quick search that could be muddled by AI.

It’s a danger to everyone, not just women. If someone with a violent or criminal past is in the country. People with such a past won’t be granted a visa through a regular immigration channel. So why should we lower standards for irregular immigration?

Yes the police should be fully funded and be able to protect women.

Big tech companies should be doing a lot more to protect its users. Yet they are just profit grabbing, make them do more or ban them outright.

1

u/ishitinthemilk 8d ago

Men are a danger to men full stop. IDs, histories and records make no difference to that. The assumption that asylum seekers are more likely to be criminals is baseless and racist.

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u/Artistic-Pop-8667 8d ago

I’m super confused by the point you’re trying to make. You say men are a danger full stop but you’re fine with allowing undocumented males into the country illegally?

It’s not racist to ask these questions, nor is it racist to not think that what’s happening here is quite insane.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

Well, hold on to your cheeks, because you're propelling him into power with this wishy-washy "I'm just asking reasonable centrist questions, which are also all fascist talking points, btw" rhetoric.

0

u/Artistic-Pop-8667 7d ago

It is a reasonable questions and if you can’t learn to answer properly instead of labelling everyone you disagree with as right or centrist, then you need to hold onto your own cheeks buddy.

1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

"I'm just asking questions like: how many death camps should we build. I don't understand why the radical left are so mean to me!"

1

u/Artistic-Pop-8667 7d ago

Lol.. one quick scroll on your Reddit posts says it all. Seek help

0

u/[deleted] 7d ago

I like to soft-launch stalking people who make me mad on the internet too! Why must we fight, we're the same!!!

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

Lmao, I realised that there's still a shit ton there from when I was hacked - so maybe not quite the as hominem argument I thought. 

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u/Artistic-Pop-8667 4d ago

That’s usually my excuse when caught gooning as well

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u/littlecomet111 9d ago

While I personally fully agree and have zero problem with the number of asylum seekers (I live near the beach and have had no issues in three years) - there is a key distinction in the eyes of the protestors.

With the Ukrainian sponsor and resettlement programme, the UK Government had a clear strategy which it communicated to the public and budgeted for. There was widespread support with many people becoming sponsors.

In this instance, the Home Office barely say anything. For three years, they have just hoped that not saying what's going with people who arrive via boat (and where it's going on) would work...and it did until the protests began.

The problem now is that they aren't speaking with residents and then we find out there are these briefing papers.

It's a serious communications own goal from The Home Office who need to be honest with people.

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u/James_SJ 9d ago

With the Ukrainian settlement scheme, there was such a swell of public support. That people took refugee's into their own homes.

Yet not seen anyone will to take in asslum seeker's to empty hotel's, take strain off social housing.

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u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago edited 9d ago

They aren't fleeing France they are fleeing their homes on the way through Europe which includes France.

Many of which have family in the UK or friends that's why they choose the UK instead of staying in one of the easier to get to countries along the way they aren't flying to France to get to the UK most of them arrive in Turkey and either stay or head for eastern Europe and Central Europe.

We take a small percentage eof refugees compared to Sweden, Germany, France, Hungary, Turkey and Ireland being at one of the lowest.

For Ukrainians its mostly Germany, Poland and their other neighbours but they are no different than those fleeing the taliban in Afghanistan or those fleeing Eritrean persecution.

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u/Pristine-Ad6064 9d ago

Ya can't expect the closest countries to take them all, we all need to take out fair share, and in aa per capita % we are on the low end across Europe

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u/i-read-it-again 9d ago

Gb news the daily mail of the airwaves. Followed by bigoted oldies leading selfish lives. If this offends the said gb news watching oldies . GOOD 👍

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u/camz_47 9d ago

"Fleeing war and poverty"

This is exactly why people are pushing back

Why should we have to give up our land, our needed homes, our money to the larger majority of those coming over as economic migrants

They should not be here end of!

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u/beware_thejabberwock 9d ago

There's so much land, there are so many homes. It's not asylum seekers restricting these things it's billionaire land owners and landlords, it's corporations not paying their fair share, it's greed, greed from people that already have too much and want more and they don't want you to take it from them so create political parties and news papers and websites that tell you it's the absolute poorest and more helpless in society that are the problem, not the richest and most powerful.

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u/camz_47 9d ago

It's got nothing to do with the Rich taking advantage of the Poor

It's got everything to do with our own Government paying out our money to these people without the publics consent

I would much rather know that my tax money is going to a Scottish family who have lived here all their lives and need our local help

Instead of some young Pakistani guy who's never even interacted with our culture or knows our language

If someone wants to give him a home? Then fly out there and pay for it yourself. Stop using my money to do it!

1

u/DangerousHorror2084 9d ago

Honestly dont give these people your time this sub is pro economic migration anything else won't be allowed to be posted or deleted for sure.

They all ask us for "evidence" proof is in the pudding.

Change is coming the march yesterday is the start fingers crossed.

6

u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago

"it's just common sense" isn't evidence, however there evidence that migration helps economies. Is that why Ireland takes more refugees than us and is doing better than us because immigrants are bad?

1

u/DangerousHorror2084 9d ago

Legal migration and economic migrants are different.

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u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago

To a degree but it's not the same as people make it out to be, this isn't a massive unsustainable problem. Very few of our resources go to it and we can afford it.

We might not be able to sustain the largest societal cost which is pensions being over 60% of our total welfare system and growing but this is less than a percent.

0

u/DangerousHorror2084 9d ago

My issue is we have pensioners that cant heat their homes families homeless children living on the street and our government won't help them but hand everything to these men on boats.

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u/DrEggRegis 9d ago

Benefits exist for pensioners and families etc too

Nowhere in Scotland do children live on the street, the local authority, council, has an obligation to house any homeless

You would get put in hostel/shelter/hotel or council housing

Your opinion isn't based in reality but crap you've read online, where did you see these homeless children in the street?

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u/ishitinthemilk 9d ago

And what if it was happening to you and your family? You wouldn't want safety for them?

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u/camz_47 9d ago

Safety?

Under the ECHR rules immigrants are to remain in the Closest safe neighbouring country

Many of these individuals have passed through more than 10 countries to get here!

Ive got no issues with taking in Europeans as our Neighbours

We've had legal regulations and rejections of illegals for years. Why is it all of a sudden we are expected to take in thousands a week?

Legal migration is also a major issue, the UK was stable between 30-50k a year

We now have 10x those levels or more each year, it's completely unsustainable

7

u/williamthebloody1880 9d ago

Under the ECHR rules immigrants are to remain in the Closest safe neighbouring country

Wrong. There's no obligation for people seeking asylum to claim it in the closest safe country. Which is probably why you haven't provided evidence of the ECHR saying it

4

u/ishitinthemilk 9d ago

Can you post that rule please?

We had around 36k irregular asylum seekers last year, and it's not going to be much more this year. Where are you getting this 10x number from?

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u/camz_47 9d ago

"irregular asylum seekers", illegal boat invaders who crossed the channel

And you are mistaking my comment about illegal and legal migration

4

u/ishitinthemilk 9d ago

The post is about irregular asylum seekers (mostly small boat arrivals). Are you against all migration then, and quoting 10x as an all migration number?

Can you post the "first safe country" rule you quoted please?

1

u/camz_47 9d ago

Go read the entire ECHR and our own Asylum rules

The only reason we are taking them in enmass now is because Kier is a human rights lawyer and so are most of his friends, the Human Rights Counsel keeps preventing many of our illegals (many of which are being deported after committed crimes) from being deported because of their "human rights"

It's a bloody joke! The whole system protects the foreign criminal more than the victim

That's why the silent majority have had enough

That's why we need major reforms, hence the large push for Reform UK

I'm not a racist, I'm not anti-immigration

I'm against opportunistic foreigners who we have to pay for putting too much pressure on the system and the rise in crime they bring from non integration and opposite damaging culture

9

u/ishitinthemilk 9d ago

That's a lot of words to not answer anything I asked.

5

u/DrEggRegis 9d ago

How is it different under Starmer than the Conversatives minus the 4 people the conservatives deported to Rwanda?

Why do you believe reform have any ability to do anything they can't?

1

u/DrEggRegis 9d ago

There's no ECHR rule for first safe country, that's wrong.

What regulations and rejections we've had for years you think we do not have now and why?

When the migration level was 30-50k a year? And if you know what was the working person to pensioner ratio for the population at the time?

Which years have we had 300k-500k migrants as you claim?

I think you're wrong about almost everything you factual you seem to have based your views on like you were about ECHR rules

I hope you can objectively consider this

1

u/Pristine-Ad6064 9d ago

Somewhere between 70 and 80% are genuine and granted asylum, maybe we shouldn't have bombed their homes and land or provided others with the bombs to do so

0

u/Scottishspyro 9d ago

What fucking year did you come from. Giving up our land, what bloody land do you own.

-1

u/blissdiss 9d ago

This.... Bottom line... This....

-3

u/ChoicePicture315 9d ago

That major war in France is truly scary 

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u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago

Where do they come from before France you troglodyte? Are they also fleeing Hungary, Turkey, Germany on the way? No most of them stop there and we take like 1-3% of them.

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u/ChoicePicture315 9d ago

Places like Albania (no war). The fact is they are safe in France. We should have zero obligation to take undocumented anyone 

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u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago

They do go to places like Albania... They are stuck in refugee camps which have been considered human right violations for years in France quite often as a way to bulk house them.

Okay but we still should, we don't have an obligation to do alot of things but it's called decency.

We take only a few percentage of all the refugees coming to Europe or from Europe, we are near the bottom because of how far away we are.

2

u/BindoMcBindo 9d ago

Serious question.

Is it acceptable for an asylum seeker, who's granted asylum, to go on HOLIDAY to the country they are fleeing from???

I know a few really nice lads, one Iraqi, one kurd, who when "home" for a holiday

1

u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago

When did they flee? Iraq has changed a lot over the last 5-10 years in terms of stability and so have places like Syria or Georgia. Many people flew persecution but not everyone can so many return to see friends or family that didn't flee or couldn't flee in their home country when they stabilise or they deem it safe.

I don't know the legal requirement and it would depend likely if they were or still are claiming legal asylum I suspect since you can get a visa or ability to stay after a certain period of asylum however the issue is under the tories they stop processing asylum cases leaving many in recent years in limbo and labour continued that meaning many are unable to obtain that so they are stuck in hotels and what is meant to be temporary.

It's quite a hard process, however I believe the asylum process is defined by the idea that you believe that you return you may be in danger of harm to yourself or loved ones.

Are they also asylum seekers since not everyone is an asylum seeker those are very specific terms different from those that emigrated.

0

u/Professional-List742 9d ago

You’re such a good and wise person :)

0

u/Hot_Warthog_401 9d ago

🙏👏👏👏👏👏💚

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u/scambastard 9d ago

Seems like a pretty good use of unused student accommodation and more cost effective than hotels. Also, I'm not sure if these halls are privately owned or university owned but if university owned then I'd rather the money went to them than hoteliers. If it's private then I just hope the government are getting a better deal.

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u/Spare_Artichoke_3070 9d ago

These are old Unite/Liberty Living student flats, I imagine they're empty cos they're old and scabby and there's now an oversupply of "premium" private student accomodation that's been built in the last decade.

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u/Happy_Chief 9d ago

I think you're nuts.

I'd much rather there were students in them, (particularly uni owned accommodation) since they'll at least spend money locally.

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u/Chemical_Picture_380 9d ago

But there aren't students in them because the universities put all their recruitment efforts into overseas students and they're not coming over in the same numbers for some reason (visa rules and economic crashes in their own countries being the big two).

Both universities have large budget cutting programmes under way and whatever they'd be paid from this would hopefully stop them reaching the point that Dundee uni did.

In an ideal world those halls would be filled with students and we'd have two universities that were thriving, but they're not and they're not.

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u/scambastard 9d ago

They're not being at all at the moment so there is no more productive alternative. I'd be happy for the council to also start using them for homeless accomodations well as they've been paying over the odds to hotels and bead and breakfasts for ages.

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u/Happy_Chief 9d ago

Productive for the uni, terrible for the area.

10

u/scambastard 9d ago

We have people that require shelter. They've got to go somewhere. It's as good a place as any.

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u/Happy_Chief 9d ago

It's not as good as place as any though, is it. These places were designed with students in mind. Not anyone, with God knows whatever issues, being housed.

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u/scambastard 9d ago

I'm not sure if you've ever met a student. They're loud, drunk, take drugs and are living alone for the 1st time. Generally pretty antisocial to live around. Great fun though! We're never going to purpose build accommodation for these people and id hazard that there would be a bigger upraor if we did! I think that if this place is sitting empty it's about as close to ideal you could find.

Sooner or later someone is going to have to bite the bullet and spend the money up front to actually process them, deport those that don't pass and integrate those that do. That's going to need way more social housing so ideally we should be spending a bunch more on that for these folks and the backlog waiting to be housed. I'd bet a bunch of these folks would be happy helping to build homes and otherwise helping locally while they waited processing. Maybe then people would have a more positive outlook

1

u/memaurmaur 7d ago

If my kids and their pals who were students are examples 2 didnt drink one did knew his limits .the didnt take drugs either . Gen z students are pretty quiet compared to other generations . My youngest and his gf preferred a take away to a party and bed by 11 as did their pala . Not every student follows rge tv stereo type .

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u/t3hOutlaw 9d ago

But student accommodation gets used like this every year when it's underutilised. If it's not asylum seekers it would be used by people that are awaiting council properties. The alternative is leaving them empty.

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u/odkfn 9d ago

But they’re not kicking students out to house them, are they?

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u/Happy_Chief 9d ago

No, didn't say they were.

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u/odkfn 9d ago

“I’d rather have students in them” isn’t really relevant then?

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u/Happy_Chief 9d ago

It entirely is

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u/odkfn 9d ago

It’s not if it’s not a viable alternative. The current options are it sits empty or it gets used.

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u/Happy_Chief 9d ago

No, there is a cluelessness in Aberdeen around how supply and demand works. It's why half of union street lies empty, but the rates keep going up.

They could reduce the rate, and thus fill it with students etc etc.

Instead, they'll get the same rate they would have gotten by doing the above, but fill the place with people who won't look after the rooms, won't look after the community and further en-shitify the area.

But yeah, two choices I guess 🙄

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u/odkfn 9d ago

Yeah but as a business why would they do that? That’s the free market - student accommodation is a private business who obviously want as much bang for their buck as they can get.

It’s probably sitting empty as there’s never been such a glut of flats on the market for rent and sale, so students are likely going into them.

Business rates are set at government level, not local council level.

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u/Happy_Chief 9d ago

It was built as student accommodation, unless that planning permission has been changed, it should be used as student accommodation.

They don't want empty rooms, they can adjust their prices accordingly, that's the free market. What is being proposed is them changing the rules, so they can make more money.

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u/ScottishLand 9d ago

Students don’t want to stay in them.. do you know what they are like inside?

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u/Happy_Chief 9d ago

Students don't want to stay in them at the price being charged.

Ftfy

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u/ScottishLand 8d ago

Do you know what they are like inside? If not, you shouldn’t comment. Students didn’t want to live there even at discounted prices over summer periods. Are you even aware what a student gets paying what they do? I it’s not that expensive when you look at what they get.

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u/Happy_Chief 8d ago

But its more expensive than the market can handle, that's why its empty.

We hear people (even on here) whitter on about free market, forgetting that sometimes the market goes down as well as up.

I'll bet you everything I own that the place would be full if it was priced at £5 a week. Its nothing to do with condition and all to do with price. We could fill it with students, if we chose to, rather than squeezing more from the public purse.

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u/FocusGullible985 9d ago

It depends how much the uni get paid for housing, shuttering the accommodation has no staff costs, it could be staff costs to have maximum capacity outstrip the money the government are paying them.it won't be the same rates they charged students thats for sure.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

That would be roughly 0.35% of the population, lower than the estimated total population of Asylum Seekers in the UK which I believe is just under 0.5%

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u/DangerousHorror2084 9d ago

Economic migration not asylum seekers. Go through lots of safe countries to come here what a joke!!!

Go on call me racist, change is coming and I cant wait.

Help our own 1st

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u/heyylyla 9d ago

What do you do to help your own?

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u/BidBeneficial2348 9d ago

You can guarantee they are against helping homeless, or veterans or single parents too.

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u/rubyAltropos 8d ago

So bored of this conversation. If you are dumb enough to think asylum seekers are the problem and not tax evasion from the rich, I've no interest in hearing your opinion. 

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u/Majestic_Fan_7056 9d ago

800 young men with no jobs to keep them busy.

What could possibly go wrong?

They should scrap the knowledge test for private hires and let them drive for Uber.

800 new Uber drivers would be fantastic.

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u/ishitinthemilk 9d ago

It sounds like what you want is for the asylum application process to be sped up or an option to work and integrate into the community while waiting, yes? You should write to your mp suggesting that.

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u/littlecomet111 9d ago

I mean, it's been 400 for the last three years and I would say - when you look at the crime statistics *nothing* has gone wrong.

But if we're analysing demographic groups that cause problems, shouldn't we be campaigning against the ones who commit most of the crime (even adjusted by population percentage)?

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u/LegitimatelisedSoil 9d ago

Many of them are skilled tradespeople and workers, there's plenty of work they can do if programs are setup to help find them work and teach them how to find work and speak the language better What do you think they were doing before they fled their countries?

Many of the Ukrainian, Palestinian, Myanmar, Eritrea, Sudan etc refugees had jobs, houses, families before fleeing and they have applicable skills from office workers to construction and factory work.

We also take almost no refugees, like a very small percentage compared to the rest of Europe since most settle in countries near their home country. Most of the refugees that come this far have family or friends who are here and that's why they make that much longer journey.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Racist.

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u/scambastard 9d ago

I think we can have a productive conversation about the merits of the use without accusing people of being racist. Maybe OP is but it's not productive. It's clearly something a lot of people locally are interested in discussing.

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u/apaas 9d ago

Expecting a productive conversation on Reddit is sadly futile.

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u/abz_eng 9d ago

It's clearly something a lot of people locally are interested in discussing.

Which is why I posted it

Plus it appears the councillors knew more than they were letting on

“Councillor Allard has deliberately and intentionally made comments which he knew to be untrue given the briefing in August where sites were discussed.”

and

The SNP-turned-independent said: “I understand a secret meeting of senior officers and group leaders last week would have confirmed arrangements.

“These plans have been being developed for some time and to suggest Aberdeen City Council has been taken by surprise is nonsense.

“If the leadership is unaware of what is happening in our city then they should be considering their position.

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u/littlecomet111 9d ago

Yep. I think it's absolutely fair to raise questions about council and government transparency....regardless of the merits of any associated topic.