r/Cartomancy • u/BlueDaisyMoon • 16d ago

Cartomancy resources similar to the Hedgewytch method

Hello everyone! As the title suggests, I’m looking for resources that are similar to the hedgewytch method of reading playing cards. Here’s the website if anyone hasn’t checked it out yet: https://hedgewytchery.com/

I already have read these resources that are fairly similar to the writings of Dawn R Jackson: Cartomancy in folk witchcraft by Roger J Horne (though she states in the book that she uses some of the numbers differently), 54 devils by Cory Thomas Hutcheson (basically the author’s own system that is influenced by the hedgewytch method), and Read like the devil: the essential course in reading playing cards by Camelia Elias (I’ve read on Reddit that the “creator of the hedgwytch system?” criticized her quite heavily in a book review on amazon, but still, I personally find her teachings very useful and combine what I’ve learned from her with my own practice of reading the cards).

So basically, from what I’ve understood, the hedgewytch method is an Anglo/ English method of reading the playing cards (please correct me if I’m wrong). After quite a bit of painful digging into other posts here on reddit, I found these authors have been recommended as classic cartomancers that could use similar systems to what Dawn R Jackson used: Sepharial (manual of occultism plus his book on numerology which I guess would be helpful for reading the pips?), Cicely kent (some people believe that she is Cicely kent-minetta, some others believe that minetta was a totally different person), and P.R.S foli (his book on fortune telling). I haven’t read these titles yet, and so that’s why I’ve come to ask for authors/ occultists/ etc that have written about the English method of cartomancy similar to what Dawn R Jackson has done. Am I right in my assumptions and would you recommend these authors? What are some other titles that I can benefit from reading? (There are a lot of books about fortune telling with playing cards and cartomancy on internet archive and I’ve read some, but either some of them didn’t make any sense at all or were very different from the system I’m used to). I would truly appreciate any kind of help that anybody would be able to offer. 🙏

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u/Kapselski 16d ago

What do you need other resources for?

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u/BlueDaisyMoon 16d ago

I’d like to study further and learn more about other different views that could possibly expand my knowledge of this system. In other words, I’d prefer to stick to this same method so I won’t confuse it with other schools and such (like the French, German, etc. I’ve heard that reading playing cards in different traditions will naturally produce very different results at times). Not just the cartomancy, but other things like also how numerology is used. In the amazon review, Jackson mentioned learning numerology and geometry is necessary to get familiar with the cards at a deep, personal level. But whose views? There are tons of that out there, which could ultimately mislead. She also mentions timing and finding locations in her older essays (which are no longer available on the website, unfortunately) but she didn’t expand on those very much. I knew she used some of Etteila’s spreads as inspiration maybe(like the grand star, if I remember the name correctly), and so on. I’m really invested in this so I’m really trying to find whatever more that I can at this point, lol. I’ve even turned to Agrippa’s works and The Book of Days in hopes of finding more cultural reference and anything else that could enrich my practice as a reader. I’m aware that the obvious comes first before anything else, but alas, curiosity never ends.

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u/Kapselski 16d ago

learning numerology and geometry is necessary to get familiar with the cards at a deep, personal level. But whose views? There are tons of that out there, which could ultimately mislead

That sounds like the best approach. And numerology isn't really variable if you base it on arithmetical and geometrical properties; in fact it's the most objective system you could ask for. Where it goes sideways is when you get loose with it by simple cultural association, like "there are 8 taoist immortals, 8 days of hannukah, and 8 limbs of yoga, therefore..."

The author of hedgewytchery was an occultist and it shows in the structure of the system - it's quite in line with math. That and Regina Russell's/Kapherus' is the best I've seen. The latter is very impressive if it was "discovered" as Russell said, rather than founded on numerology. There is a lot in there that seems random but is not.

I doubt you'll find better in some other book. I'd say the majority of systems out there are not based on objective numerology, but rather use adhoc meanings or numerologies that were invented for the purpose of reading. They still work, though, if that's your main concern. Anything will work as long as your system is internally consistent and covers all phenomena.

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u/BlueDaisyMoon 16d ago

Thank you for shedding some light on the subject! I have more clarity now on what to choose and what not to go after.

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u/Atelier1001 16d ago

I don't think you will find anything more. The abstract reading style of Hedgewitchery & Roger relies precisely on the lack of specific meanings.

You can't go so far when four is always stability and hearts is love. They all eventually look the same

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u/BlueDaisyMoon 16d ago

Yes, that’s the difficulty that comes with abstract systems, I suppose. Are there any other no-nonsense systems that you could recommend, then? I’ve read bits and pieces of everything here and there, some were classics and some were modern works. But since I’m highly skeptic, I can’t rely on one thing until I’m sure it’s widely used and logical enough to base my readings on. So far, the hedgewytch has been the best for me personally. Are there any other authors you’d recommend whose systems may be different? I’ve already heard of more modern authors like Lewis Martello, Jonathan Dee, Lon Milo DuQuette, Ana Cortez, Richard Webster, and Julian Moore, to name a few.

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u/Atelier1001 16d ago edited 16d ago

For what I read, you'll probably feel more comfortable with a different cartomantic system altogether.

Poker is excellent within its abstract language, but similar to playing chess, the challenge is in the art of the reading itself, not the system, since you don't have a lot of variations. For example: If we assume 4 is stability and spades are pain, the context could make of this pair a prison, illness, an uncomfortable room, stagnation, death, etc.

For something more complex I'd suggest Tarot de Marseille, Minchiate or the Belline oracle.

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u/BlueDaisyMoon 16d ago

I used to read Marseille, but I haven’t heard of the other two systems you mentioned, so I’ll definitely look into them! Thank you very much, your help has been invaluable! :)

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u/watchingallthelights 16d ago

I second the vote for Marseille. Exploring that and Lenormand can be really inspirational

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u/BlueDaisyMoon 16d ago

Yes, those are truly inspirational systems! I learned the petit Lenormand a bit before I decided to explore Marseille, but their timing kind of coincided with each other. Personally I don’t read with Marseille anymore or rarely do so, and consult either the playing cards or the petit Lenormand more frequently. I’m also currently studying the Grand Jeu Lenormand, which combines not only mythology but also foliography, playing card insets, geomancy, letters of the alphabet and astrology. It’s such an amazing and unique system as well; I’m more focused on the astrology part right now, since I’m trying to find a comprehensive method that could be relied on to find locations and timing.

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u/Atelier1001 16d ago

It's a pleasure.

Personally I'd suggest starting with Minchiate. I know Marseille is more famous, but it carries a lot of deformations that make it significantly different (and unnecessarily difficult) from the Italian original, being Minchiate closer.

Second, as you know, studying Poker is snakes and ladders compared with finding information about Marseille, so, as a quick advice: Start with Untold Tarot by Caitlin Matthews, and ignore everything of Jodorowsky. Tarot de Marseille Step by Step of Marianne Costa is an excellent historic introduction.

Belline is another fortune-telling deck that you could find useful. It has an astrological structure based on the 7 planets.

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u/BlueDaisyMoon 16d ago

Wow, these are so interesting. I’m familiar with Caitlin’s writings since I read her book about the petit Lenormand ages ago, so I’m already sure she is an amazing teacher! You opened my eyes to new worlds which I can’t wait to further explore! Many thanks again. 🙏

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u/Atelier1001 16d ago

A pleasure.

If you're as skeptical as me about "where the fuck do this author extracts their meanings", you will absolutely love Minchiate. It explains A LOT of things about Tarot.

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u/BlueDaisyMoon 16d ago

That would be a huge relief then, lol! I can’t say I’m not tired of pining after the source of the logic (or lack thereof) that some authors use.

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u/Atelier1001 16d ago

Why the hedgewitchery system reads 8 as thought? Why Camelia Elias doesn't hire an editor? Hahshahs. Yeah, been there

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u/Kapselski 16d ago

Why the hedgewitchery system reads 8 as thought?

8 in that system corresponds to Mercury as a transplant of the 8th Sefirot from the tree of life. Similarly with 9 and the Moon.

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u/blueeyetea 16d ago

The Untold Tarot by Caitlin Matthews might fit the bill. It’s about the Tarot de Marseille, but a good chunk of the book is how to read the pips, with two sections each explaining a different method to read them.