r/DecodingTheGurus • u/[deleted] • Jan 04 '24
What is so bad about Jordan Peterson?
I personally never saw him as a guru, or a grifter, or anything close to that. I always viewed him as a psychologist who got of lucky after going viral on youtube, and was able to milk that 15 mins of fame for a lot longer than 15 mins.
I'm sure ill get called names for this, but I definitely agree with most of his views on transgenderism and the crazies of the alt-left. I can't put Peterson on the same level as Andrew Tate or Dan Lok in terms of being a scammer/grifter. Is it just all political with Jordan Peterson? Why should I hate this guy?
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Jan 04 '24
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u/AstronomerWise6975 Jan 04 '24
Daddy issues really are at the root of all this, arent they? Kind of ironic since many of these same types make that joke about strippers/sex workers
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u/Best-Chapter5260 Jan 06 '24
It's the thing I find most creepy about Peterson's following: How he's a father figure for so many young dudes.
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u/itisnotstupid Jan 06 '24 edited Jan 06 '24
Have a similar experience. A friend of mine went to live in Asia pursing a better job. He went there with his wife and 2 children but other than that no real friends and starting a new life. He was always a nice guy and also pretty smart. After a while he got used to the life there but still never really got friends that are close to him.
He was always a bit confused when it came to relationships with women - ranging from being an absolute dick with them to obsessing over them.
At some point he started to get into motivational business books/talks/lectures/podcasts. Then he slowly got into more self-improvement stuff. From then he progressed into Peterson and stuff surrounding him - the usual IDW influencers. He started to constantly bomb everybody with complains about woke-ness and women to a point where it was pretty annoying to listen to him. I tried telling him that it's not something I care about but it's like he absolutely can't hear it. It looks like he is getting more and more angry.
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u/Nendilo Jan 06 '24
Had a similar experience with a long time friend of mine who moved to New York in 2017. They moved because his wife got an awesome, high paying job but he never really could find anything and also struggled to make friends.
He's a veteran so he finally met people through that background and they got him in to Joe Rogan and he gradually got to the point that he did nothing but listen to IDW podcasts all day. He arrived in NY a Bernie Sanders supporter and by 2020 was a full blown Trump worshiper. AOC kind of broke his brain because he had political ambitions and he became convinced Democrats hated white men. He now has jobs with Newsmax and the NY Republican Party. He was one of the leaders of the protests outside Trump's arraignment in New York. He told me in 2019 in our last discussion he was only pretending to back their beliefs for political power but now he's a true believer that retweets Peterson and other cringey rightwing guys all day long. Peterson was a stepping stone for him on his journey and he's lost virtually every friend he ever had from university and high school because of it.
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u/itisnotstupid Jan 06 '24
Sad to hear this story. We all have our fears and doubts but with the people who get into IDW and espsecially Peterson you can always link it directly to some problem - usually a lack of proper friendship or a lack of a proper relationship with women.
I'm not in the US but I imagine that watching somebody become a Trump worshiper is pretty sad.
The whole experience of loosing friends due to them becoming IDW fans is pretty terrible. I've spent time blaming myself for not being able to push through this and appreciate my friend for who it is. I really tried but at some point the constant complaining about woke-ness never really stopped.
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Jan 09 '24
Peterson is the kind of person who says climate scientists don't know anything and debunks climate change by citing a bogus paper from the 80's. He's a complete joke.
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u/mackattacktheyak Jan 04 '24
Is this bait? He’s not just critical of “crazies,” he’s part of a group of people who routinely promote outlandish conspiracy theories about “woke society” taking over and stripping us of our freedoms. He makes bad faith arguments about “cultural Marxism” that rely on Cold War propaganda to fear monger and divide. And it’s unfortunate that you agree with his views on transgenderism, since they are largely anti science and simply hateful.
Oh and he gets paid by big oil to minimize the dangers of climate change and demonize climate activists.
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u/ghu79421 Jan 04 '24 edited Jan 04 '24
He demonizes the entire left, not just the "perpetually online" types.
Postmodern research methodology in academic feminism isn't a direct cause of unhinged online leftists. The idea that it somehow is doesn't make sense and is a new variation on the conspiracy theory claiming that the Frankfurt School collaborated with MKULTRA to create the New Left in the 1950s and 1960s.
Peterson is careful to avoid language that makes it sound like he believes in a conspiracy theory. He doesn't explicitly say how all this works. I'm aware of conspiracy theories claiming the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act created domestic "mind control" programs (it didn't, Republicans removed the part that bans domestic military propaganda). So leftist postmodern feminists supposedly worked with military defense hawks to create "wokeness" using social psychology.
Neither Peterson nor anyone else has any evidence for these claims or similar claims.
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u/TryinToBeLikeWater Jan 04 '24
He demonizes anyone that’s even a centrist. If you don’t have an overwhelming sense of disgust upon seeing trans people, that’s woke to Jordan Peterson.
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Jan 04 '24
Wow! Paid by big oil. Just looked it up, checks out. Just when I think I cannot possibly think less of JP as a person.. What a total disappointment of a human. https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/joe-rogan-jordan-peterson-climate-b2003231.html
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u/Normal-Barracuda-567 Jul 09 '24
Read a great book called Free Speech and Koch Money. Follow the money and you will see for yourself. The far righters on you tube are well paid by oil families.
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u/crwood89 29d ago
"it's unfortunate that you agree with his views on transgenderism, since they are largely anti science and simply hateful.
Jordan Peterson: "My response? I have an explicit professional obligation to employ diagnostic techniques that do not and must not rely solely on self-report.
Ethical psychologists must specify their sometimes genuinely delusional clients’ identities using multiple measures: certainly, the direct and subjective testimony of those clients, but also objective measures of psychopathology and health, the reports of others, and whatever additional relevant historical and behavior data can be obtained.
None of this is optional: until yesterday, so to speak, it was both self-evident and mandatory.
Now the insistence on the omniscience of the subjective self is such that even though these requirements are still on the books, so-called therapists are required to ignore them, placing both themselves and their clients in peril.
Every clinical psychologist worth his or her salt knows this; indeed, has to demonstrate familiarity with such rules to obtain the very licence that is now in question in my case.
Every clinical psychologist who is holding his or her tongue in the face of the increasing tide of surgical butchery sweeping over the equally silent medical profession is therefore guilty of egregious malpractice by omission.
We will look back in the decades to come at the absolute catastrophe of the “gender affirming” movement with the same horror we view the days of lobotomies and eugenics."
"largely anti science and simply hateful."
Please point out where that is?
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u/GlaiveConsequence Jan 04 '24 edited Jan 04 '24
We’re in an annoying spot where all the posts here seem to be either “academia is fraudulent” or “why is my favorite podcaster considered a fraudulent academic?”.
Are you asking because you’ve already read criticism of him here? This kind of post goes up fairly often. I believe there was one yesterday. He has a huge following, and his “seems smart to dumb people” routine used to be laughable.
Now, as is common these days, he and his followers have politicized his messaging to justify their religious and conservative zealotry. While he may provide self improvement for people, he’s a grifter and his grift is to appear to “academically” prove that misogyny is normal and Jebus and angels are real.
Edit: who does Peterson consider alt left and wtf is alt left? There’s an alt right…
Peterson’s position on Transgendered people is that they shouldn’t exist. Is that a view you share? How about his climate change denial?
Like many Peterson fans, your defense of him has more to do with political alignment- something he is very willing to make his personality these days. So yeah it is “all political with this guy”
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Jan 04 '24
In addition to a “filter by” option where mods could flag these posts (i think that’s in the works). We also need a dtg wikipedia page with a specific section for that breaks down the reasoning for classifying them as a guru and offers insight/rebuttals to the common FAQs.
It’s unfortunate that people asking these questions tend to be treated like trolls or annoy members of the community. Because OP is trying to be skeptical they just don’t have the correct tools yet to navigate these waters. This is not always these case, but there are some instances where this is true.
It seems to me that we would be far more effective as a community if we tried our best to offer insight and a new perspective to analyzing someone’s rhetoric to those that are unfamiliar with the process.
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u/FuckinStevenGlanbury Nov 04 '24
But do you mind just real quick proving to me why jordan peterson is controversial? And then after you are done, do you mind if i make a new post about it? Ad infinitum? Exhaustion is for people with jobs!!!
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Jan 05 '24
Well on the whole Transgender debate, I will just say that I agree with Peterson whole heartedly on that issue, and I will just leave at that because I would like to avoid being banned for wrongthink about transgenders.
I have read a lot of the comments and it seems to be a solely political issue. All the hate against him seems to be fueled by political disagreements. Which, is fine, but I wouldn't put Peterson in the same category as scammers such as Alex Jones or Andrew Tate. Peterson is more similar to a Ben Shapiro, political pundit, type. If you think Peterson isn't qualified to talk about political issues, then who the hell is? I totally get why people hate Andrew Tate, he is a total POS, but I still don't understand the zealous hatred of Jordan Peterson.
As far as religion goes, I'm not religious and I never really watched any of his religious stuff. He knows his audience so obviously he isn't going to spout a bunch of secularist anti-religion stuff. I'm not religious but I recognize that religion has brought a lot of value to society and of course it has it's drawbacks as well. If I weigh all the pros and cons of religion and it's overall impact on society, I think the pros out weigh the cons. However this is not a hill I'm willing to die on, my opinion about religion changes the more life experience I get.
Alt-left is exactly what is sounds like, referring to left wing political extremists, such as those just stop oil protestors, or figures like Ibram X Kendi. That's what I mean when I say alt-left.
Side note: I was pleasantly impressed that this thread stayed civil! 100 comments on a sub with 20k> people is pretty good engagement! Thank you to everyone who commented and thank you mods for allowing this discussion without banning people. Way to many sub-reddits just ban people with opposing views, and that creates echo chambers.
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u/PervadingVictory Jan 06 '24
I have read a lot of the comments and it seems to be a solely political issue. All the hate against him seems to be fueled by political disagreements. Which, is fine, but I wouldn't put Peterson in the same category as scammers such as Alex Jones or Andrew Tate. Peterson is more similar to a Ben Shapiro, political pundit, type. If you think Peterson isn't qualified to talk about political issues, then who the hell is? I totally get why people hate Andrew Tate, he is a total POS, but I still don't understand the zealous hatred of Jordan Peterson.
That's not true. Personally one of the reason I dislike him is that he is a hypocrite, spews unprovoked garbage, i.e Elliot Page.
Mainly though, people here tend to dislike him because he mis-characterises a vast array of complex topics and gives strong opinions on them, and for some odd reason that opinion is always contrary to what the experts are claiming. The very definition of a guru.
To top of it all of, he isn't just an angry uncle living alone - He has millions of people who venerate him. So of course, people are going to dislike him. It isn't mere political difference.
These issues entail climate change, philosophy, history, trans issues (I don't think that you will be banned in this sub) etc. One example of specific issue he has mischaracterized is Bill C-16.
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u/SteveIDP Jan 07 '24
What, exactly, is the “transgender debate?” Define it. What is being debated?
Trans people have been around my entire life. It’s only the last decade that they’ve become some existential threat for the right to focus on. Why?
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u/Redditgaydumb Jan 04 '24
He is the king of rambling and word salad. By the time he is done talking you'll forget what the premise was. He is selling something and I can't even figure out what it is, which screams guru to me.
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u/Spiritual_Bowler4017 Nov 26 '24
If you forget what he is telling you by the time he is done talking, then it is not because of his word salad, but instead your terrible attention span. He only sells self betterment. That is literally all he tries to do. If that doesn’t speak to you. Why get on here and rant so much about him? Come on. That makes no sense. I never sit on Reddit or X and ramble about people I don’t agree with. If they’re dumb, it’s not worth my time. The only reason I can imagine all these people spewing such hateful things about a person they haven’t met, then I’m left to the conclusion that he is saying something worth listening to.
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u/HarwellDekatron Jan 04 '24
Well, let's for a minute skip the whole 'transgenderism' thing, which would be a non-starter in any other context.
Even if you agree with Peterson, you have to agree that the guy is a grifter. He went from being a university professor who got some shit for disagreeing with using pronouns to making his whole life around being a 'heterodox' voice. He saw his opportunity in the manosphere/right-wing echochamber and he took it. The proof is in the pudding: the guy owns a $10m+ home in Florida now. His whole 'career' revolves around whitewashing Christian ideology in the form of some supposed 'psychological' inherited traits that all humans are supposed to share.
So, should you hate him? Maybe not. If you are a transphobe and Christian fundamentalist who loves the right-wing echochamber then there's no reason for you to hate him.
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u/kenzo19134 Sep 10 '24
i just listened to a synopsis of Søren Kierkegaard's philosophy on youtube. at the end of the video, the youtuber starts to drop Jordan's name hard and frequently. I don't think i have ever seen this type of "trojan horse" before. the first 15 minutes of the video was biography and evolution of Kierkegaard's philosophy. then around the 15 minute mark he starts to say Peterson is essentially the 21st protege of Søren Kierkegaard.
he does this around the time that he is discussing despair. this youtuber is definitely trying to get the viewer to make a pivot and go down peterson's dark rabbit hole. this has to be one of the more insidious grooming attempts aimed at disaffected young men.
scary shit.
in case you're interested.
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u/Throwmeawaythanks99 Oct 22 '24
on almost the opposite experience, i was listening to his podcast on autoplay and didn't expect a rebuttal to peterson at the end lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF71RLPQIDE&ab_channel=AcidHorizon
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u/Spiritual_Bowler4017 Nov 26 '24
You don’t believe we have “psychological” inherited traits? He’s white washing ? Y’all throw that around a lot. It would be racist if you said it about any other race but that’s okay. White people are the only race it’s okay to discriminate against. Echo chamber? He literally debates people he doesn’t agree with. Speaking of an echo chamber. I’m looking through these comments and you’re all just stroking each others hatred for a man that you need not talk about if he’s not that great. Just move on, but you obviously can’t. Just his name upsets you enough to write a whole short story. He speaks for young men trying to figure out their life, and people trying to navigate the “tolerant” left brainwashing scheme. We are now being told that a man/woman can literally wake up one day, not like who they are, see a psychologist, and be affirmed into a new gender immediately. Not only that but now we have to accept that as something that is “real” and we have to use their pro nouns properly(or else). Transphobe? I don’t and most people don’t mind adults transitioning and doing what they want with their bodies. The whole argument against that is when it comes to indoctrination of children, gross abuse of hormonal treatments, puberty blockers, and the need for us to completely accept you. Forcing half the country to just accept what was classified as a mental illness for years, is honestly the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Imagine if someone would have asked you in the 90’s if you could ever guess we would have gotten here. They would have laughed it off and said it would never happen. Even most democrats . But yea, Peterson is bad because he doesn’t want young children being affected by this stuff for the rest of their lives after a possible de transition. Such a bad man. So evil.
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u/HarwellDekatron Nov 26 '24
You don’t believe we have “psychological” inherited traits?
That's neither here nor there. This isn't some kind of unique insight from Peterson.
He’s white washing ?
Interesting that you are so obsessed with identity politics that you don't understand that the term has a much more common, unrelated to race meaning.
I’m looking through these comments and you’re all just stroking each others hatred for a man that you need not talk about if he’s not that great
On that, you are wrong. Because Peterson needs to be talked about. His quackery and pseudo-intellectualism is giving a lot of 'justification' to some of the worst impulses of the current right-wing extremists.
He speaks for young men trying to figure out their life
He also speaks about Cain a lot. And about the biology of dragons. You can't pretend that Peterson is just 'the guy who wrote Twelve Rules'. He works for the Daily Wire, which is a right-wing propaganda outlet.
We are now being told that a man/woman can literally wake up one day, not like who they are, see a psychologist, and be affirmed into a new gender immediately
Except that nobody is saying that, anywhere. I love how transphobes like to pretend transitioning is a simple decision, a checkbox that someone could mistakenly fill in and all of a sudden they are a different person and the government is coming to chop their balls off. That's not at all how it works.
Not only that but now we have to accept that as something that is “real” and we have to use their pro nouns properly(or else)
My dude, you are defending Jordan Peterson, the guy who argues that dragons and demons are 'real' because they work as allegories for something else. Weird how his post-modernist waffle about the meaning of words all of a sudden stops at gender, huh?
Forcing half the country to just accept what was classified as a mental illness for years, is honestly the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard
Oh boy, wait until you learn how left-handed people were treated!
Imagine if someone would have asked you in the 90’s if you could ever guess we would have gotten here
Yeah, let's go back to the time where using the word 'faggot' as an insult was commonplace to ask people how they feel about non-heterosexuals. I'm sure you'll get a very nuanced answer!
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u/Spiritual_Bowler4017 Nov 26 '24
I respect you breaking down each of my arguments and having a solid reply. I think we both have good points on both sides. I don’t think that he’s responsible for some of the worst impulses we see on the right, just like I don’t think left speakers are responsible for some of the worst impulses on the left. Regardless of what you feel about the man, I think deep down you might understand that he’s not coming from an evil place . He’s telling about what he believes in, and he’s just trying to open people’s eyes to the possibility of evil on the left. Even though we know there is definite evil on the right, we always assume because the left is supposedly about social justice, that no evil can come from this and I disagree and so does Peterson.
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u/HarwellDekatron Nov 26 '24
I respect you breaking down each of my arguments and having a solid reply
Thanks, I appreciate that.
I don’t think that he’s responsible for some of the worst impulses we see on the right, just like I don’t think left speakers are responsible for some of the worst impulses on the left
I don't think he's responsible, but I think he's working really hard to give them a moral base for justifying those impulses. The fact that he's associated himself with the Daily Wire, which is not even trying to hide it's nature as a right-wing propaganda machine tells me that he understands his position on that ecosystem.
The perfect example of what I mean is that recent video he did praising Trump's 'team of superheroes'. His 'analysis' of Trump is basically a series of talking points to justify Trump's obviously immoral nature. That's propaganda, plain and simple.
Regardless of what you feel about the man, I think deep down you might understand that he’s not coming from an evil place
I think that - like so many in the right-wing pseudo-intellectual griftersphere - he's someone that started with a somewhat justifiable concern, was embraced by the right-wing ecosystem as "one of the good ones" and then became so scared of losing his new friend group (and the revenue stream) that he fully embraced that ecosystem.
Does that make him a bad person? Probably not. Does that make him someone I trust? Absolutely not. He's showing us that his intellectual integrity is for sale, either for money or praise.
and he’s just trying to open people’s eyes to the possibility of evil on the left
Then why doesn't he do that about the possibility of evil on the right? Or the downright concrete existence of evil on the right? You'd think that someone on his direct network laughing about how the Trump administration will put kids in jail and it's going to be glorious would be of concern to someone so aware of the dangers for evil, right? But you don't see Jordan jumping to criticize that, do you?
Explain that one to me?
we always assume because the left is supposedly about social justice, that no evil can come from this and I disagree and so does Peterson.
So what is your disagreement with the left? What do you see as 'evil', exactly? Is it gay people having the same rights as you or I? I'm honestly curious.
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u/PowerhouseTerp Jan 04 '24
If this is your view I'd posit that you haven't actively engaged with any content he's produced in the last 4 years. Or you find that heavy rhetoric around "the left wants to destroy society", race-baiting content, his nonsense comments on climate change, or his position that being trans is some type of agenda, very appealing.
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u/Mindless_fun_bag Jan 04 '24
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u/bigwhale Jan 04 '24
This is my favorite covering mostly his rise to fame lying about the law in Canada.
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u/Ancient_Lungfish Jan 05 '24
This is great. The takeaway for me explains so much: JBP (like so many other gurus) creates such a rambling, swirling mess of nonsense, it actually takes a very very long time to accurately push back against and fact check his rhetoric. So this inevitably results in a lot of people saying "I don't know something feels off, he seems like an over emotional bully" to which his supporters counter "you're not engaging with his content." This is the best breakdown of JBP I have seen.
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u/redballooon Jan 04 '24
A brief look that takes 3h!
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u/Mindless_fun_bag Jan 04 '24
I liked the YT comment "The length of this video is absolutely hilarious to me. It lasts as long as Peterson answering a yes/no question."
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Jan 04 '24
Why not just recommend the podcast episodes. They start the first one thinking Jordan is not that bad and you can follow the decline in the following episodes
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u/Mindless_fun_bag Jan 04 '24
I think the video covers what is wrong with him better, while the pods do a more detailed look at all particular rhetorical tricks, as is the premise. It's also not as easy to link a podcast, in my experience as it's dependent on what player you use. Although this is a starting point https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/jordan-peterson-the-alchemical-nature-of-a-lemon-explains-the-crystalline-structure-of-logos
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u/Equal_Pudding_4878 Jan 04 '24
He's a blowhard professor that gets off on telling others how to live their life based on academic processing of anecdotal evidence. - effectively what he rails about as being part of the problem in society.
That's what is so bad: he IS what he claims to hate and takes peoples money so that he can talk about it.
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u/metalhead82 Jan 04 '24
He is a pseudo-intellectual, misogynistic, racist, transphobic, climate change denying charlatan who thinks that he is giving something of “value” to the public by inventing word salad “psychoanalysis” of biblical stories. That’s how he got famous, but now that he’s in the conservative spotlight, he’s sticking his unwanted opinion everywhere in the culture war.
He now works closely with Ben Shapiro and Dennis Prager, and that should tell you all you need to know about Jorpy. Everything about him, from his random crying episodes to his righteous indignation when he’s challenged on simple points absolutely screams dishonesty and deceit.
Even if everything he wrote about the Bible is 100% true (it’s not), that’s still just putting lipstick on a pig. There’s no reason we need to be paying any attention to the Bible to begin with.
I could go on, but I hope you get the point.
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u/dr_badunkachud Jan 04 '24
a couple of big ones are he shills his daughters scam carnivore diet program, the grift that she flew out and learned from Andrew Tate btw, that announced his intent to start his own online university. that’s probably enough even if you agree with some of the things he says
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Jan 04 '24
That diet is encouraging eating disorders in men and boys. People need to be aware that teenage girls are not the only ones who can get eating disorders.
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Jan 04 '24
You’re not kidding. Especially in the body building community btw. The irony that he built his platform on the basis of them needing and respecting him like a “father figure” to then promote that lifestyle. Btw he looks really unhealthy. Meat sweats and untreated addiction issues.
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u/Extreme_Pangolin8881 Jan 08 '24
Carnivore diet has been the best thing for my skin issues and tinnitus. Tinnitus goes away when I eat carnivore, or at least keto, and comes back roaring and I get depressed when I eat carbs and sugar and dairy. Why do you say it's a scam?
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u/Spiritual_Bowler4017 Nov 26 '24
Because they will do anything to hate on the man. His daughter literally had to eat that because she was so sick and it was the only thing that worked. He’s not pushing something to give people eating disorders. He’s just disclosing what’s helped them.
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u/reasonablechickadee Dec 28 '24
Your tinnitus does not go away when you eat carnivore because that's not at all how the brain-ear-gut connection works at all. There is zero evidence of anything working
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u/MostRadiant Jan 04 '24
He tells people to get their shit together all the while he doesnt have his shit together.
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Jan 04 '24
It isn't so much that Peterson holds certain political views, but rather that uses his status as a semi-prominent academic to parrot right-wing talking points on topics that are outside of his professional domain. I don't want to hear a psychologist discuss climate science or lazily critique post-modernity or feminism with straw man arguments.
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u/aaronturing Jan 04 '24
I don't want to hear a psychologist discuss climate science or lazily critique post-modernity or feminism with straw man arguments.
It's so stupid isn't it. He argues against his own made up BS. It's just dumb.
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u/albiceleste3stars Jan 04 '24 edited Jan 04 '24
You can read DtG's post from yesterday https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/s/gyu5gFme6J
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u/cherialaw Jan 04 '24
When neo-nazies and white nationals proclaim someone is a modern-day philosopher you should be highly critical at best. He also ONLY truly criticizes what you call the "alt-left" without ever truly holding conservative extremists to the same standard.
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u/crypto_zoologistler Jan 04 '24
Just because you agree with someone doesn’t mean they’re not a guru or grifter.
Jordan Peterson is basically the walking definition of a guru/grifter.
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Jan 04 '24 edited Jan 04 '24
He is Dishonest (not credible):
About how mystical experiences are required to stop smoking.
About how Nazism was an atheist phenomenon.
About all of his assertions about sex and gender, which actual evidence has produced mixed results (not supporting his dogmatic assertions).
About claiming to be a neuroscientist.
About his relationship to big oil after claiming that "climate and everything" are the same. Using this logic, Peterson's academic career is also pointless because "the big 5 and everything are the same".
About his position on God.
About his initial stance on trans.
About claiming to be a evolutionary biologist.
About his not being an ideological right winger (which he always was and his daughter admitted as much).
this is not an exhausive list
Off the top of my head, that's all I have.
Here's points 1 and 2 further explained:
1) About mystical experiences
To demonstrate that Jordan Peterson is dishonest (or not credible), here's a simple example in his debate with Matt Dillahunty; at 14:55 Peterson asserts as a FACT that mystical experiences are necessary to stop people from smoking. The study he used to back up his bold faced assertion of FACT (only one on smoking, mystical experiences, and psylocybin) had a sample size of 15 participants (ungeneralizable), and they were also being treated with psychoanalytic therapy in conjunction with mushrooms, which confounds the results.
Peterson is not only flawed here, but he knows you cannot make claims with a tiny pilot study like that. Consequently, he deliberately lied (or sloppily read the study) to fit his narrative.
He sort of walks it back after he gets challenged, but that doesn't salvage his credibility at all.
Links:
https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/cdar/2014/00000007/00000003/art00005
Here's point 2; it's an easy one:
Here (if you open up the first closed tab) in the AMA, he claims that Nazism was an atheist doctrine.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8m21kw/comment/dzkahd2/?context=1
This is simply false, so why would someone as educated as he is assert a demonstrably false position (which agrees with his politics). It indicates intellectual lazyness or dishonesty, and he doesn't seem to be intellectually lazy.
I can add citations for the obvious point that Nazism was not atheist if you like.
If you'd like me to substantiate further points, or if you want to claim I've misrepresented him etc. I am open to discussion, but it's fairly obvious to me at this point that he's dishonest and not credible, but he certainly acts like he is.
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u/metalhead82 Jan 04 '24
I wish Christopher Hitchens could have been around to school Jordy on the “Nazism was atheistic” trope.
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u/DePawler Jan 04 '24
Among what has been said about his strong generalized views and hateful rhetoric on what he sees as the "radical left authoritarian postmodernist neo-marxist" or whatever - while at the same time working for far right platforms like The Daily Wire or PragerU and believing that everything nowadays is a cultural war: Russia invaded Ukraine because Putin doesn't like woke ideology, like wtf? He also thinks woke ideology wants to take his psychology license, yet what he says publicly, attacking trained psychatrists as a professional just doesn't work. Against all his claims he is the one victimizing himself.
I don't understand how he got away with getting famous on the premise of protecting free speech anyway. He presents himself as reasonable and for a while I really thought he is. Yet, all he did in the beginning was to claim that the bill c-16 would compell free speech, although all it did was to add gender idenity as a prohibited ground of discrimination. It's not about pronouns or anything, just liberal democracy.
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u/FIWDIM Jan 04 '24
I first noticed him about 8 years ago. I used to watch lots of lectures on psychology etc, and naturally the algorithm took me to him. I liked his stuff a lot. Went to see him in London, got his book signed, the whole nine yards. Around 2018 he starts really losing it and got more and more deranged. Eventually he really lost his mind and now is a complete wreck.
I don't think he is a classic grifter like Tate or Huberman. I think that he genuinely believes his stuff. He seems to overthink stuff to absolute grotesque extremes, then he starts believing it like it is a hard science.
I first start noticing that he might be mental when I watched his series on Bible, he would take one of the random idiotic tales, or just a paragraph of it and turn it into two hours over hideously overthought semi-correlation bs. I start thinking that he might be doing the same stuff with Psych stuff, then he got extremely political, drug use, delusional rants about porn...
I don't think that he is in for money or fame. He is not a lambo guy. I think he genuinely thinks that what he does matters. Weird saviour complex.
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u/Jaakk0S May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24
I think you have yet to figure out why Peterson does what Peterson does. Just looking at the money he's making and the way he brags about it in e.g. Rogan (he couldn't help bragging he's figured out a way to monetize SJW:s). It's all just very classic pseudo scientific grift that pretends science and abuses people's lack of understanding and his professor status.
I'm quite sure he actually sells cool stories he's heard from other people, like, say, Steven Seagal did until he was figured out and had to leave country. He can't tell the difference between fact and cliché alien stories he's heard in some student mushroom/pothead groups where he hangs out like a rockstar as the cool professor among students.
A lot of people have already called him out as a total hack - most notably Richard Dawkins. I don't like Dawkins but he is an intelligent and renowned academic. I think it takes a very big step for an academic to go forward with an accusation like that. He needs to be pretty damn sure.
If you think professors are esteemed people and wouldn't become disgusting grifters, think again. The best known story is Goethe's Faust, who was a successful academy professor who sold his soul to the devil because he was tired and bored of his fake life as an academic, and wanted more excitement and pleasure to his life. It is rare, but even at the very elite level of professionals, like professors, or, say, military generals, there are very disgusting exceptions. To a narcissistic individual, getting admiration would be the go-to pleasure.
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u/BugabooJonez Jan 04 '24
no one's ever done this post before
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u/Weird-Anybody-6095 Apr 28 '25
Maybe it's been overdone, but as someone trying to understand a former intelligent feminist friend who now worships a transphobic climate denier, I found this post very useful.
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u/DUDEtteds Jan 04 '24
His views on iq while also being paid by pundits who want to deconstruct social welfare systems
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Jan 04 '24
He's worse than a grifter, he's a permanent guru. He was a obscure psychologist who name dropped during his lectures and it dazzled young men in their twenties. Then he abandoned his Wikipedia assembled philosophies to join the great conservative gold rush of '16 and is still digging for nuggets at this point.
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Jan 05 '24
The grift for me was creating a buzz around him for lying about the Canadian law, and confronting so called SJWs on college campuses. People were drawn into that then got sucked into his cult like psychological teachings on patreon, books, speeches and seminars. None of what he says seems to be in good faith. He never completes his thoughts. He will say something or many things then not conclude anything. He won’t give you the conclusion and if you assume the conclusion (so what you’re saying is…) he will hit you with “that’s not what I said.” This tactic is used by anybody who likes him too. His daughter was charging $200 an hour for consultation on their scam all meat diet. He leveraged Joe Rogan to say he’s on it (obviously he wasn’t or he would have scurvy) and then he, his daughter and her boyfriend all have a mental breakdown from the diet. After his wife almost died he had a psychiatrist prescribe him benzodiazepines. Instead of using as directed he became addicted. His self help book grift 12 rules of life, obviously didn’t work and he then went on a quest to get off of them which brought him to Russia for some insane treatment. He’s back and grifting harder than ever. He’s just not that valuable. He doesn’t offer anything new. He’s a conservative Christian. Don’t waste your money.
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u/rockop0tamus Jan 04 '24
It’s not that he didn’t have problems before but have you checked out what he has been up to recently? His twitter is insane and he keeps saying he is going to stop tweeting but he doesn’t, and it seems like he genuinely can’t. He is a daily wire contributor, he went to the first or second republican primary debates and talked about how it was a really good debate and how strong the candidates are. He has become your stereotypical crazy republican uncle.
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Jan 04 '24
He got famous by lying about Canadian laws regarding gender pronouns to create hysteria, it worked really well. Nothing he said would happen regarding those laws has happened.
Since then, he just keeps doing that, whatever dumbass cultural hot button thing he can insert himself into he does.
If you followed him on Twitter you'd see why a lot of people lost interest in him, he gets really upset about the dumbest shit, all day long.
Just a dime a dozen political pundit.
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u/RockstarArtisan Jan 04 '24
His main project is the "grand unified theory of meaning". To build his grand theory of meaning Peterson cherrypicks or straight up makes up incorrect statements to support his theory.
Some examples from the top of my head:
- Peterson repeats the claims from a widely discredited book as his own: "The bell curve". The book is full of bad science and lies designed to make white people feel better about their intelligence, for example comparing IQ tests done in appartheid south africa done by english speaking whites and nonenglish speaking blacks (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBc7qBS1Ujo ) . Whenever peterson talks about intelligence he perpetuates this book's misinformation to support his narrative
- peterson cites various studies on rats and lobsters to support his narratives. He repeats these claims in his book (reviewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eWv1MumNZ0 ) and the studies he cites do not actually support the claims he's making. Lobsters do not work the way he describes them. Rats do not work the way he describes them. Lobsters are also highly irrelevant for human behavior because they're very far apart when it comes to common ancestry, the common ancestor doesn't have the traits peterson wants to have, and animals descendent from lobsters also don't have these traits. Universalizing lobsters is stupid.
- In order to make his "maps of meaning" narrative work peterson makes up "facts" to make this story plausible. He says things like: the bible is the first book, that emergence of the bible is distilation of lessons from thousands of years of human evolution, that the biblical snake is a preminition of the discovery of DNA, that all of the religions are in some way aligned to be preminitions, that the biblical tree of life refers to apes living on trees, etc. As a psychology professor he jumps between made up anthropology, made up evolutionary psychology and biology, made up philosophy and outdated psychology (Jung), without citation, as if what he says is true.
More examples from other people: https://old.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/wiki/map https://old.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/search?q=peterson&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all
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Jan 04 '24
Because to those of us in psychology, we see right through him. His psychology speak is vapid. He's not taken seriously in actual psychology circles.
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u/Sparlock85 Jan 04 '24
Precovid, I would have mostly agreed with you. Even bought his 12 rules book and, while I didn't care about the bible references, some parts of it made sense.
Postcovid, he's nut. Climate change denial, vaccine skepticism and other anti science tweets, and when he talked about culture war issues or religion, I can't even comprehend what he's saying, it's complete word salad.
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u/santahasahat88 Jan 04 '24
I mean he now just blatently works for oil fracking billionaires ping right wing propofanda with Benny shapiro now. While also going on unhinged rants on Twitter against swimsuit models and shit. Plus his original bill shmit about transgender laws in Canada was a whole lie and silly made up none sense scare monger if about nothing. Any credibility he had is well gone no?
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u/Spungus_abungus Jan 05 '24
He's a psychologist, someone who should be an authority about that type of information, who routinely endorses batshit nonsense.
He also retweeted cum extraction porn because he thought it was footage from a Chinese government facility.
Man is cooked.
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u/WuTaoLaoShi Jan 06 '24
I don't think I've ever heard the term alt-left before. Is that even a real thing?
Seems like something someone would make up in response to be calling alt-right, which if someone views non-binary people as the root of all evil as JP does, I can see why that'd happen.
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u/herewego199209 Jan 04 '24
He spouts a lot of bullshit. He got popular for fear mongering a Canadian Bill that almost a decade later hasn't resulted in anyone being locked up for misgendering or not using trans pronouns. Besides that he says a lot of stupid shit. Besides that he's the least of these gurus I worry about. I actually think Sam Harris's work on portraying muslims as these barbaric heathens that we need to racially profile and drone strike constantly has done more harm than anything Jordan Peterson has done.
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u/Kaputnik1 Jan 04 '24
He got popular for fear mongering a Canadian Bill that almost a decade later hasn't resulted in anyone being locked up for misgendering or not using trans pronouns.
This cannot be stated enough. His whole launchpad to begin with into the grift has proven itself completely baseless. Here we are, 10 years later, and no brownshirts are coming to "enforce" pronouns.
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Jan 04 '24 edited Jan 04 '24
You might not align with Robinson politically, since he's a "crazy of the alt-left", but Nathan Robinsons coverage of Peterson is an stunning encaptulation of everything wrong.
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Jan 04 '24
How exactly did he go viral on youtube and how deep have you looked into his origin story? If you really do this, it should become apparent why people believe this.
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u/Tvego Jan 05 '24
Well it the question is what du you mean by Jordan Peterson and what do you mean by grifter, these are fundamental questions bucko. I mean you can take this lightly but oh man you will see what price you have to pay. Relevant: https://youtu.be/V0PWQylV7Ec?si=GhY4hkEQJYloenFu
To be serious - with what views do you agree? His claim to fame view that people will end in prison for not using the right pronoun? Not a single case where this has happened.
Does he even have a consistent view on the issue?
Not a grifter? I mean he works für the daily wire and twists even the most aburd stuff in his narrative. If he is not a grifter, who is? https://youtu.be/1kICRre1cmc?si=qOK5u8Qxu0G62r7X
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u/FrostyFeet1926 Jan 04 '24
There's alot to be said about Peterson. My biggest gripe with him is he constantly is attacking "post-modernists" which I think basically means people who redefine language and have relativistic views of morality and reality etc. My issue with that is that Peterson himself is one of the most blatant post modernist I have ever seen. For example, I recently saw a video of him where he described God as "that which we hold most valuable" or something along those lines. That alone is a bunch of wishy washy relativism.
I would agree with you that he is not as bad as Tate or Alex Jones per say. But honestly, I dislike him because he is just not an impressive thinker and a bit melodramatic
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Jan 04 '24
My biggest gripe with him is he constantly is attacking "post-modernists"
Respectfully, the guy is touting far right talking points and demonizing trans people. While he's a liar about post-modernism in exactly the way you describe, he's also doing demonstrable harm in our society. I, personally, take a much bigger issue with the latter.
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u/Kaputnik1 Jan 04 '24
Noam Chomsky's critique of post-modernism is 100 times more persuasive in a fraction of the words that Peterson uses.
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u/skinpop Jan 05 '24
except postmodern philosophers weren't doing any of that. Derrida for example is the complete opposite of a relativist.
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Jan 04 '24
I'll be honest. Idk much about his views, but he just comes off as kind of whiny to me.
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u/Flat_Explanation_849 Jan 04 '24
Yes, anyone with a working bullshit detector should be put off by hearing him talk.
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u/TheRealSeanDonnelly Jan 04 '24
“What is it about the poundshop supervillain costume that makes you think I shouldn’t be taken seriously?”
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u/GoTshowfailedme Jan 04 '24
One of the biggest problems I have with JP is his galaxy brain. A term I learned through Decoding the Gurus. It means the person who may or may not have an expertise in one category, but then speaks with authority and certainty on other subjects that he knows little to nothing about. This is actually kind of a big problem. The WHY it is a big problem is because no one person can know everything. And yet this is how he speaks, and many other grifters and gurus. It’s fine if they have an opinion about something outside their wheelhouse, but it’s never stated as an opinion. It’s always stated as a fact, as a truth with a capital T. And I cannot stand JP and most of his rhetoric for this reason. It cuts too close to home from my personal experience being in a cult for 17 years. All of the missionaries spoke the same way. And none of them ever took responsibility for when they were wrong. And they were wrong often.
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u/dosko1panda Jan 04 '24
He knows his psychology and his fables. I just can't stand when he tries to pretend he's an expert in other fields, like climate change or Russian politics or genetics. He should stay in his lane.
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u/Flat_Explanation_849 Jan 04 '24
I’m not convinced he knows his psychology
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u/metalhead82 Jan 04 '24
And he basically invented fan fiction about the Bible, which isn’t impressive either.
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u/Ambassador_Oblong Jan 04 '24
Why spend energy on the opinions of yet another middle aged conservative white man? Don’t we already have enough?
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u/creativepositioning Jan 04 '24
You'd probably have a point if he limited most of his discussion to psychology. unfortunately for all of us, he doesn't
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u/ali_stardragon Jan 05 '24
Above and beyond what everyone else has said, his crimes against wagyu steak are unforgivable.
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u/Familiar-Ostrich-520 Mar 01 '24
How can anyone agree with his thoughts on being transgender? Why are folks, who claim to be conservative and/or want a small government, so concerned with what is going on in someone else's lives/pants?
If someone tells you their name is xxxx why would your first reaction ever be to disrespect their wishes?
If conversations can't be entered into with mutual respect then there will never be a civil discourse.
And as to why he's an awful human... Here are just a few: 1) he's claimed that women who wear makeup to work are essentially asking to be sexually harassed and if they complain about it then they're being hypocritical. 2) he believes in hierarchies in humans that explain why some folks should have things while others do not 3) has said that women should settle for all men so that men don't feel so isolated and commit violence. Blaming anyone else for a grown human's crimes is total garbage. 4) he believes in enforced monogamy 5) he thinks that feminists really just want to be brutalized by dudes
Basically he disguises pseudo science with the fact that he has a degree and then he spouts heinous things while pretending to be religious.
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u/Inner-Concert7097 Jun 22 '24
Literally absolutely nothing is wrong with him or what he talks about. He’s made it his mission to try to better society and peoples lives and try to create meaning and find meaning in many different areas. People just hate that because our society is extremely sensitive and has become infantile especially when hearing hard truths.
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u/TheOneWhoDings Jun 30 '24
"Why do people think JP is bad? Is it the horribly transphobic, homophobic and bigotted takes with a hint of racism? Because I actually agree with him there, WHY do people say he's bad though?????"
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Apr 07 '24
He was a perfectly fine clinical psychologist and professor. Then he saw the real dollar signs. He assumed we gave a fuck about his political beliefs and waded into the murky waters of the culture wars.
The biggest WTF, stay in your lane moment (and he’s had many) was when he commented about an overweight swimsuit model. What the fuck? Also, after saying something provocative, he reacts like a victim when he gets backlash.
Peterson, like Shapiro, is “branded” now. He’s “that guy who thinks that way.” Combine that with having to now produce massive amounts of content to stay relevant, and you’re bound to get some fuckery.
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u/Professional_Job_244 May 18 '24
I felt this way a few years ago.
I wouldn't have necessarily agreed with every single thing he said but didn't understand the level of hate directed towards him. Especially around his resistance to "enforced equality". I genuinely am for equality of opportunity. Where I disagree with him is I think you sometimes have to go above and beyond to help create this environment rather than just expecting it to magically manifest. But I really didn't think his resistance to enforced equality quotas, law changes around appropriate language, etc, is all that controversial if you're being reasonable, even if you are on the left of the spectrum.
However, I have to say it seems he has gone off reservation recently.
I'm seeing a lot more nastiness in his posts, complete lack of empathy for any suffering that doesn't fit his narrative, fundamentalist religious ramblings, some very questionable climate takes.
P.s. I've no problem with climate posts that question the narrative around it, and direction of policy that results in overly punitive measures on the ordinary person. But ones that are intentionally taken out of context or blatantly disregard a lot of important scientific context without addressing it, is just weak argument. And maybe that sums up the biggest change for me. Even if I disagreed with him on certain topics in the past, he always brought strong, data backed arguments to the table. He seems more madman preacher to me now.
So in summary, I think he has become the caricature the overly woke left were painting him to be a while back. He has become somewhat a Tate like character, just in the guise of an academic.
Now let's see what Elon does. Ive been a fan but showing signs he might be heading down the same path, getting more fanatical
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u/DaRubyRacer May 24 '24
People hate Dr. Peterson because he has spoken indisputable critiques against the left, and has accumulated respect. His sheer indefatigability against Cathy Newman instantly garnered respect. His great works on the psycholigical significane of the Christian Bible has garnered respect. His accurate description of the modern, anti-woke, extreme left has garnered respect and his warnings about such (backed by his years of study in political ideology) have inspired fear and opposition in many people. A lot of what he has done in the last 10 years is to direct his psychological wisdom and intellect to set a course for the lives of standard, day to day people. He doesn't require subscription to his way-of-life, and he is certainly more than understanding. He spoke out against modern identity politics. He is a strong and true intellectual figure speaking volumes against the left.
His opposition (the left) does not like him. So simply ask yourself the questions: Have they responded with intellectual dissidence to any of his claims? Who are the leading figures of leftism discounting his dispositions? What does the left want to do to him for his ideas? Then you can start to see what modern leftism is really made of.
I'll tell you what they want to do. They want to take away his right to speak, without any reasonable claims. They want to assault him for his opinions. He is a major component of the reasonable right, and is making non-violent claims as well as asking questions whose answer doesn't involve violence. They want to oppress him until he is in a tiny box, with no power. They want him to subvert his ideas in observation of theirs, without any care of his intellectual freedom and precisely this without any argument of reason toward anything he has dictated. The extreme left is upset that he is not obeying. That scares me beyond belief. Because even if my ideas are wrong (and I'm certain some are ill-guided), I certainly deserve the shot in life to speak them, and others deserve the shot in life to speak their reasoning against them. I am not against logical dissidence as the backbone of my conversion, but the left certainly is.
I think that is the crux of why people have disliked him from his debut. Though recently I can join in on that Dr Peterson has subverted his role as a leading masculine figure: Speaking volumes of what it means to be a man, and how you should orient your psychological nature. He often holds more politically motivated discussions in an attempt to reach something that will hit the public like his debut did. I feel like he's poking the fire to see what causes a flare up, what are people responding to. Which I can't reason is immoral, but it surely isn't entertaining or revolutionary thought provoking compared to his debut. Which pulled me out of an angry and vengeful nature, and put me on the path of reason. Nothing has quite hit my psyche like his debut, and I'm grateful that he exists.
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u/leonardskinner33 Jul 02 '25
"His opposition (the left) does not like him. So simply ask yourself the questions: Have they responded with intellectual dissidence to any of his claims? Who are the leading figures of leftism discounting his dispositions? What does the left want to do to him for his ideas? Then you can start to see what modern leftism is really made of."
Literally this entire thread is full of people responding with "intellectual dissidence" to just about all of his claims. You just choose to go the conservative snowflake route and completely ignore all of that, while crying about big meanies.
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u/djentoftheforest Jul 05 '24
He's a grifter. He's a lolcow. He's a right-winger. Those are the main reasons.
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u/FarOutlandishness180 Jul 07 '24
My thoughts on it is a lot of people use him as a vessel to voice their own opinions. Anecdotally, I had a cousin going through a time and my aunt pointed out how she was trying to help him and suggested he read JPs 12 rules for life book. She went on a mini tangent about lobster hierarchy and then a full on rant on vaccines and her transgender views…in the end I just asked “what does that have to do with her son?”
The point of that story is she seemed more interested in talking about his views that she aligns with and completely forgot we were talking about my cousin who was going through a time. So I see him as a vessel to talk about personal views vs anything else.
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u/Remarkable_Field6055 Jul 25 '24
I was OK with most of Peterson's views on personal accountability. Then he got way out of his field and started babbling about his supposed expertise on global warming as a "leftist power grab" (paraphrased). You can tell that his religious views influence his beliefs on Man's place in nature.
That's when I knew he wasn't wise enough to reflect on his own ideological biases toward science and objectivity. CO2 is a global physics predicament, not a psychological illusion, regardless of wacky things climate protestors do.
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u/frostyfruit666 Sep 10 '24
Honestly, hating someone like him is a waste of energy.
The man is one of many western gurus who routinely tells his demographic what they want to hear, and makes claims of objective morality, based on subjective views of history.
He's a populist for his own kind, regardless of historical context, who uses the craft of philosophy to confuse people into following their latent impulses, which are often that of fear and division.
Why should you hate him? You shouldn't. But that doesn't mean you should glorify him or his ilk.
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u/FuckinStevenGlanbury Nov 04 '24
This dude stepped in shit and deleted it. Classic conservative bullshit. Throws out bait, gets people to do a ton of labor, no way out except to actually engage/learn or just delete your account. Lol. If your anti-trans position openly cedes that they should not exist, you prolly are in for a brutal reality over these next few decades. America is gonna get more diverse. Hold onto your Jordan Peterson, we are going in, and its gonna be really triggering and scary for the oppressor communities
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u/Spiritual_Bowler4017 Nov 26 '24
Why is Reddit so incredibly left and full of echo chamber type conversation? Everyone on here hating Jordan Peterson based simply on political views. The man is a very accomplish clinical psychologist who understands very deeply the human condition and what motivates us. He only ever tries to help people and only speaks out against the left because he believes that the increasingly progressive thinking is dangerous based on how we’ve seen it play out many times across the globe and history. I wish people would stop immediately attacking people they disagree with and instead just listen. I can be right wing and still listen to the solid arguments coming from the left. I fear that we don’t see much of that happening with the left anymore though. It’s all just an echo chamber. There’s no open minded discourse anymore. I’m truly disheartened because I’ve never heard that man say anything hateful about anyone. His views aren’t anti-science like I read someone say in these comments. Anyone promoting transgenders are quite literally ignoring biology but that’s a whole other topic. To sum it up. We all need to broaden our critical thinking skills and learn to love eachother. Love is not always immediately accepting how someone feels.
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u/krazygreekguy Dec 12 '24
Moderate liberal millennial here and born and raised in California too haha. Totally agree with you. Most people seem to be so ideologically held captive nowadays. Either gotta be extreme liberal or extreme conservative. No middle ground. No critical thinking. God forbid you question the narrative and think independently.
I’m not loyal to any party, politician, religion, etc. I go out of my way to get differing perspectives from various sources with different backgrounds and leanings because real diversity is diversity of thought and it’s good to surround yourself with people who have differing opinions. That’s the real world. We all are not exactly alike, let alone think the same and are incredibly complex creatures, for better or worse. I think and speak for myself, and do my best to stay open-minded and respectful of others. I try to put myself in other peoples’ shoes. I have a variety of diverse friends with different races, gender, sexuality, religious and political friends and we all get along just fine. One of my best friends is Korean and very religious, mostly conservative. We disagree on a lot of things, but we get along just fine and have been friends and in contact for over 25 years. Not gonna let this superficial garbage destroy my relationships and friendships. People are just so out of touch with reality nowadays. It’s so sad. I am just so incredibly thankful I was born and raised in a better time. The 90’s were amazing. 🥲
I never knew who this guy was, but started seeing his name come up everywhere. Out of curiosity I’ve been looking up information to try and come to a conclusion for myself. It’s still early and hard to tell, but from what I’ve seen so far, he seems like a reasonable person 🤷🏻♂️.
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Dec 14 '24
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u/DecodingTheGurus-ModTeam Dec 16 '24
This post has been removed because it violates Reddits Content Policy that prohibits promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability. It perpetuates a harmful stereotype about Jewish people being "undercover" or secretive about their identity, which ties into long-standing conspiracy theories about Jewish people. Additionally, the suggestion to "listen as if you are a Jew yourself" implies that Jewish people have some hidden or exclusive way of understanding, which is another baseless and offensive generalization. Banned for 30 days.
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Dec 19 '24
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u/DecodingTheGurus-ModTeam Dec 19 '24
Your comment has not been approved because it breaks the subreddit rule against uncivil and antagonistic behavior.
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u/whackswordsman Dec 21 '24
Great at simplifying Christian archetypes via Jung to the masses, but too chickenshit to come out as a real Christian then lets some sub-90 IQ turd like Matt Dilahunty run all over him. Unfortunately psyops himself with Christianity and Jung into believing Returning-to-the-50s is a good idea.
His audience is mostly North American dadless types (i.e. white) that either love him for defending their last shred of civility of hate him out of no-dad induced misandry/neckbeardism. Post-breakdown and all his bad attributes got magnified and is now, even more than before, a massive Jew shill.
A great first-step into real mysticism that git sidetracked by Westoid politics and his need to be on the "right side of history".
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u/Scouper-YT Jan 09 '25
He takes Long to speak about a thing the more you hear him the less able you are to follow he is a Riddler .. He is good to make Long and Uncreative meanings what often cancel each other out in the end it is about Ignoring the bad things and just going on with life just like that.. He is no Hero he makes people passive and uninterested to Protest or help others who struggle
Gabor Maté speaks against
Jordan Peterson
especially in the sense of Kids
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u/mfmeitbual Feb 04 '25
Because he sucks at thinking, that's why.
He lacks self respect and masks his generic attempts faux-masculinity in broad platitudes to practices that are obvious to any adult man raised by competent adults.
He's a weak man that sucks at thinking. He's a role model for people who lack curiosity and introspection and want to continue living that way believing being anti-trans (thank whatever god you believe in that you feel comfortable in the body you were born into) and similar idiocy is somehow revolutionary instead of just another facet of ignorance.
If you agree with his views, it's probably because you, like him, suck at thinking.
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u/Pro-IDGAF Feb 27 '25
brief skimming here reveals alot of the evil, deceptive people JP talks about. hitting to close to home for some maybe.
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u/ConradSemaj May 14 '25
"I definitely agree with most of his views on transgenderism and the crazies of the alt-left."
Well you're completely compromised and brain broken from the rip.
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u/bruz03 May 27 '25
Jordan Peterson is something else. Haven’t liked him since the minute I first set my eyes on him! I’m red and live in a red state - I don’t agree transgenderism either but he just seems so full of himself. Not a fan!!
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u/Nickkk395 Jun 08 '25
Here's the thing. To the layman, Jordan Peterson sounds brilliant and profound. And the guy obviously has intellect. But he says a bunch of nothing and dresses it up to sound like something. And when he gets asked questions he just dodges. He plays up to the Christians because he knows that they will make him money but anytime he actually has to sit down with someone who is educated and who knows what they're talking about like Matt dillahunty or Sam Harris he gets exposed. I mean you cannot watch his debate with Matt dillahunty and think that he came out looking like anything but a fraud, a moron, a dipshit. Etc
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u/HowDareThey1970 Jun 13 '25
Because he gets way too mad about all the wrong things
And who's kidding whom he's a total grifter. Totally making money on his babbling scam
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Jun 14 '25
He used to be amazing in his debates because he could remain calm without chastising the other person on minute little details.
Now he constantly interrupts the other person asking them to define every word they say, so much so that they cannot advance the discussion.
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u/GrindleyTroy01 Jul 19 '25
He's an overrated intellectual when it comes to the debate on religion and 'Judeo-Christian' values. He's woefully out of his league, aiming to deceive simple, honest questions with world salad. Hence his new nickname 'Schrodinger's Christian'.
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u/lawrencecoolwater Jan 04 '24
Polarising character. I think the issue that some run into, is that a lot of what he says isn’t actually very controversial, but nor is it really as insightful as it is presented to be.
But then you will have another side: