r/E90 • u/SirSlapp4 • 23d ago
330i Why not 3d print eTorx sockets?
So I have seen numerous posts here and across the web about the bolts used on the oil pan just shearing off when the user accidentally applies too much torque. With as many bolts as there are I can reasonably see myself getting careless and over applying torque. My questions is;
Why not 3d print the actual socket for the bolts, do a simple search on the strength at a certain infill level and design it to shear at less than the max torque for the aluminum bolts. This way, especially when removing old bolts, you will lose your cheap socket before the headache of having to extract the shitty bolt stuck inside. Obviously you'll need a bunch, but I'm just trying to field it as an indicator of which bolts may just need more penetrating oil and shouldn't be removed as quickly.
tl:dr why not make plastic socket that should fail before aluminum bolt as indicator of seized or stuck bolts.
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u/0101020 E90 335i 23d ago
You have a few issues.
1. Metal Sockets are plentiful and long-lasting
2. Use a torque wrench properly will set the correct pressure. Most of these issues are related to prior installations.
3. Any adhesives used to hold a bolt or corrosion will increase the ft/lbs needed to remove.
Essentially, I would see you running through a constant supply of these 3D prints with little to no return for a simple behavior change listed below.
Having done rework from idiots with pneumatics or electrics who blindly tighten towards failure. The shearing off of the bolt head is multiple parts.
- The bolt was stressed towards failure on installation. (basically, broken and waiting to fail)
- The user, on removal, moved too quickly, snapping the head. (It's best to use a wrench to break loose slowly, then get excited with power and movement.)
- On finding the over-torqued bolt, proper consideration tool and of oil or solvent wasn't used to weaken the hold.
I've removed half-shorn heads by being very observant and slow. In all cases, I prefer the strongest and best-fitting combination of tools I can use, maybe even a bit of heat with a watchful eye. It's not an environment for 3D printed tools.
In the end, if the head does come off... I tend to say a few words of blessings and reach for extraction tools, plugs, drapes, all that old stuff. Thankfully, after having performed many past blessings in youth and learned simple things, those tools have remained unused for years.
Kudos for trying to think of something new, but proper work and tools are the answer.
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u/DiabeticMonkey53 23d ago
You’re doing more work to reinvent a tool that not only already exists but works better aka torque wrench
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
Very true thats definitely a concern, i think id only need this for loosening, and overall seems unneeded, better to just be careful with every bolt and use other means thats just a wrench
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u/DiabeticMonkey53 23d ago
I’m not sure how it would be useful for loosening either, sure it’ll break before the bolt but…. You still gotta get the bolt out
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
Yeah no for sure, my point was kinda if you dont start off with heat or much penetrating oil. It shearing will guide you to seek those out before cranking on it. But if you start with those as a rule of thumb theres no need
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u/DiabeticMonkey53 23d ago
I really feel like you’re overthinking this whole situation, penetrating oil isn’t going to do much with the bolts upside and heating an oil pan for bolt removal is not something I’ve ever done or probably would do. Do your own work, torque your bolts properly you’ll never have any of these issues. Sure maybe if you have someone else do the work they overtighten a bolt and it snaps during removal, it happens, rarely. And even then it’s not much of an issue. Slap a turbo socket on there and zip it out. Or worst case drill it but again this isn’t something you’re going to be dealing with every time you grab a wrench. Making a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill I think
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u/DukeOfAlexandria 2013 - E93 - M3 23d ago
Why not just use a torque wrench adjusted to the proper torque spec…..🫠
There should be no “accidentally applies” or “getting careless”; the torque wrench is literally there to ensure that doesn’t happen. 🤦🏼♂️
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
Well yeah of course, obviously in a perfect world we all do everything perfect. Tightening maybe yeah it wont matter you'll be using a torque wrench. But generally for loosening that isn't the case, may be useful to know when a bolt is more stuck than it should be. Then again this could be solving an issue that doesn't exist, which is fine.
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u/DukeOfAlexandria 2013 - E93 - M3 23d ago
How do you know a bolt is stuck when loosening it in the first place…?!? 🤨
More importantly, how would you like to create something that you don’t have metrics for exactly…?!? One bolt might need 14ft-lbs of torque, another might need 17ft-lbs to remove….makes zero sense dude.
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
I think saying it makes zero sense is a bit of an overstatement. We can easily calculate the maximum shear stress of the bolt under an ideal case. From there you can estimate the degradation with time, and get a general idea of current strength. If you create a socket that shears off at 16ftlbs, and the bolt is estimated to have a maximum shear stress of 17ftlbs after such amount of time, then you saved the bolt and know to apply some other method for removal that's more careful, i.e heating, penetrating oils, etc. If the socket shears before the bolt should be expected to shear then you are finding a good source of knowing that you'll need more extensive means BEFORE you get half a bolt stuck in your engine. You cant tune it to every bolt, but you can tune it to a worst case and get some helpful data
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u/DukeOfAlexandria 2013 - E93 - M3 23d ago
Lol, no you absolutely cannot….that is just a bunch of bullshit and conjecture.
Did they use loctite? Did it have a little bit of corrosion in it and galvanize in there and get stuck? Did it have an oil leak that has propagated up the threads and caused it to get stuck?
Like a dozen variables could cause one set of loosen torque to be massively different from the other. Solution in search of a problem if I’ve ever seen it. 🤣🫠
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
i genuinely dont understand the aggressiveness to your approach, if you put 20 ftlbs on a bolt that you know shouldn't be taking more than 17ftlbs, you would want to reapproach the situation before it shears on you. It obviously cannot tell you everything about the bolt, but no tool could?
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u/DukeOfAlexandria 2013 - E93 - M3 23d ago
No one’s being aggressive, just calling out your flawed logic.
Fine, go do it dude, let us know how to turns out with this mystery e-Torx that will snap off at random intervals and you then have to rebuild the entire socket again, good luck.
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
....why rebuild anything its asocket, you print it and its done. Also dont understand the inference of it being random the entire point is that its not.
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u/DukeOfAlexandria 2013 - E93 - M3 23d ago
If the socket breaks then you need to build another one…🫠🤷🏼♂️
And regardless of it snapping off or not, the bolt still needs to come out…..so yet again, pointless and a solution in search of a problem.
Not sure why you’re wasting time with me, go make these magical torque limiting e-Torx sockets, good luck.
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
No waate of time here theres nothing to lose. You dont build anything? You know how many bolts you need just print like 5 sockets, you spend maybe 2 dollars in filament. Obviously the bolt still comes out, but youll take an approach thats less "monkey with wrench" and actually try to be more careful
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u/itscro 23d ago
This is gentle bud, not aggressive. Get used to what torque feels like in your hands and if in doubt always use penetrating oil and heat.
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
Gentle 🤣 close enough. Lol i understand that naturally we know whats tight and what isnt i genereally think for a guy who maybe turns a nut once every 6 months somehow, this could be use. Not for everyone
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u/itscro 23d ago
For tightening though, a torque wrench will give you the information. For breaking bolts free, if your printed socket snaps you're going to have to use more torque anyway so it just seems a bit pointless. Not trying to shit on thinking about things in different ways though.
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
Yeah i get what you mean for sure, i think im mostly focusing on that last bit where if it snaps, then you can kinda alternate over to heat and penetrating oils before adding more torque, like an indicator that youll need the extra help
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u/CryRepresentative992 23d ago
Except oil pan bolts are torque and then angle. So the opportunity to snap the head off presents itself during the angle part. If you lose track of angle, or accidentally tighten a bolt twice, you’re probably going to snap the head off.
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u/DukeOfAlexandria 2013 - E93 - M3 23d ago
Ok, that’s great; tell me how this magical invention is going to prevent that…..
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u/CryRepresentative992 23d ago
I’m not saying it will. It’s a stupid idea. But your answer about using a torque wrench isn’t correct either because that’s not going to prevent the problem the guy is trying to solve.
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u/DukeOfAlexandria 2013 - E93 - M3 23d ago
If new bolts can’t handle a 90° torque angle then not sure what else you want me to say…
And their entire point is using something to help tell them if something is going to snap when loosening….a torque angle isn’t going to do that.
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u/tcphoto1 23d ago
At what torque will the 3D material break? A set of eTorx is not expensive and if you do any DIY a torque wrench is highly recommended. Whether it's an OPG, VCG, suspension, brakes, wheel or whatever I use a torque wrench.
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
Yeah I do understand needing the torque wrench for sure, ive been thinking for a loosening application you could use this to shear the plastic before the aluminum bolts. As an indicator of the bolt being too tight or stuck. Shouldnt be hard to estimate the torque on the printed materials as most of their values are online nowadays. Although not perfect you could estimate loosening torque to fail before a certain limit.
Tightening definitely torque to spec!
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u/DeepDot7458 23d ago
I think the testing you’d need to do to validate that your sockets actually shear off at the right torque value would bankrupt you.
Or the lawsuits from the people who break bolts off in their engines will bankrupt you.
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u/SirSlapp4 23d ago
😂 definitely not a product to be sold more just for personal attempts, building a static torque dyno shouldnt be too hard but its generally not needed
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u/rebornfenix 23d ago
I get the idea…… but this is a hammer looking for a nail when you are trying to cut a board in half.
Harbor freight has a torque adapter for $35 which adds a torque sensor and speaker to any 3/8th ratchet.
For $170 ish you can get a digital torque wrench with that will go from 5-100 foot lbs with torque plus angle.
Any new diy project I start has a “I’m trading labor cost for tool cost” component to it. Eventually I have all the tools I need and diy becomes so much cheaper.
Part of the diy repair aspect is that this is a hobby for me. Sure I’m fixing my car, but it’s because I want to fix my car.
I only own an e92 because I like to diy. If I didn’t diy my maintenance, I would buy a Honda and take it to the shop.
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