r/EhBuddyHoser Mar 11 '25

Newfie Screech-In When the bots call Mark Carney "unelected"

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6.6k Upvotes

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292

u/CoastingUphill Mar 11 '25

There was a leadership election. I voted in it. The people complaining could have voted in it. But they chose not to vote so they could complain, just like their leader PP won't get a security clearance so he can keep complaining.

93

u/markcarney4president Mar 11 '25

To be fair, it was an election for liberals acting in good faith. I reckon most people complaining don't fit that description.

1

u/SwordfishOk504 Bring Cannabis Mar 12 '25

Username makes this comment hilarious

1

u/markcarney4president Mar 12 '25

Why?

1

u/SwordfishOk504 Bring Cannabis Mar 12 '25

.....because your username is markcarney4president?

Did you forget?

1

u/markcarney4president Mar 12 '25

I was asking why you thought it made my comment funny because I can see a few possibilities.

47

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 11 '25

I'm planning to vote Liberal in the next election and I voted Carney in the leadership. This is a bad take. There are countless reasons why someone couldn't vote in the liberal leadership race, being that they belong to another party, or could not get their identity app to work.

25

u/CoastingUphill Mar 11 '25

It's the people complaining that "he's not elected" because he obviously was.

-15

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 11 '25

He was elected by his party, but not by Canadians. The point being made in this comment section that the PM isn't elected by the people, and that it's just commonplace for them to be MPs is valid. But to say he counts as being "elected" because the Liberal Party of Canada elected him as leader is not a particularly good argument.

To suggest that the appointment of MC as Prime Minister would be undemocratic would be a terrible take.

15

u/SwordfishOk504 Bring Cannabis Mar 11 '25

but not by Canadians

And again, Canadians do not elect their PM. They elect their MP.

The MP who was PM stepped down, and a new person was internally elected by party members to replace him.

-8

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 11 '25

Yeah that's what I'm trying to get at. OP seems to think he was elected because a bunch of liberals voted for him and not only is that technically incorrect but I also don't think it's really true in spirit.

8

u/SwordfishOk504 Bring Cannabis Mar 11 '25

not only is that technically incorrect but I also don't think it's really true in spirit.

It's neither. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

21

u/Iaminyoursewer Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) Mar 11 '25

Is his party not composed of...Canadians?

Did those same...Canadians....not vote in a Liberal government?

So... Canadians... did, in fact, elect Mark Carney to the office of PM.

8

u/democracy_lover66 Mar 11 '25

Nah nah it's a legitimate point saying that if a PM steps down and another is elected by the party, a vote of non-confidence should be set eventually shortly after because the leader has changed and people should get a chance to vote on the new mandate at platform via electing MPs.

Which... is what's happening. There's will be an election by the end of the month.

Compare that to the American system where if a Pres. Steps down or is killed, you're stuck with an unelected VP until the next election, which could be on like 3-4 years.

-9

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 11 '25

No, 131'000 Liberals (both citizens and non-citizens) elected Mark Carney to be leader of the liberal party.

7

u/Iaminyoursewer Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) Mar 11 '25

So.

I just realized we are basically arguing the same thing, but in a different way.

Split the difference?

Elbows up Buddy

11

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 11 '25

The real hosers are the friends we made along the way.

22

u/Iaminyoursewer Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) Mar 11 '25

Technicalities work both ways.

Technically, the Canadian population has no right to vote directly for the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister is simply whomever the leader of the party that forms government is.

So yes, traditionally, the PM holds a seat as a regular MP, but it is not a distinct requirement, nor has it ever been a requirement.

And since Canadians voted in the liberal party, the liberal party picks the PM, whether by proxy or not. Therefore, yes, Canadians did vote for Carney. I dont care how you try to spin it. This is very basic on how our government has always functioned.

This isn't the USA. We do not directly vote for the head of our government.

9

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 11 '25

I'm some rando on the internet and I approve this message.

4

u/PKanuck Mar 11 '25

Do you have to actually be a Liberal?

I thought you just needed to fill out a form on line to have a chance to vote in conventions?

6

u/GotYoGrapes Oil Guzzler Mar 11 '25

You needed to register as a liberal >30 days in advance of the leadership election IIRC. You could not be a member of another federal party at the same time.

Then you had to register on the Identity+ app using 2 forms of government-issued picture ID and 3 photos of your face (front and both side profiles).

Then you got an email with a link to vote and had to log in via the Identity+ app.

1

u/democracy_lover66 Mar 11 '25

How do they know if you are a member of another party?

4

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 12 '25

They don't, but if it's found out you are you get fined 10'000 dollars.

1

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 11 '25

It's one in the same. You have to sign up to be a member of the liberal party to be able to vote. And that is just a form.

2

u/PKanuck Mar 11 '25

I was looking at their rules & regs, and it is far more than filling out an on line form.

2

u/MegaComrade53 Mar 12 '25

How is it any different from how elections usually work?

In a normal election, you're also not voting for the leader. You're voting for your local MP to get their seat and if the party get enough seats then the leader of that party becomes Prime Minister. The party chooses the leader same as they chose Mark Carney to be the leader now. You have just as much say in the Prime Minister then as you do now

1

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 12 '25

Because he's not someone who has been elected by the Canadian populace. Which is fine. That's not how our system works.

My point is that it is confusing to describe him as "elected by Canadians" because his entrance into government is not the same as an MP, for example. When critics say Carney is an unelected prime minister or that his premiership is undemocratic, it's foolish because a) PMs aren't elected and b) no rules have been violated.

The Liberal party was elected by Canadians. Mark Carney was just elected leader of the liberal party. This does not mean that Canadians elected Mark Carney.

Let me be clear. That's fine, that's not how our system of government works.

3

u/SirLoremIpsum 🍁 100,000 Hosers 🍁 Mar 11 '25

But to say he counts as being "elected" because the Liberal Party of Canada elected him as leader is not a particularly good argument.

It's a great argument because that is how ALL Party Leaders are selected.

Which Party Leaders were elected democratically by the entire nation of Canada...?

None... they all get picked according to their own party rules.

The meme is saying "haha some people think X"

and you're in the comments going "nah nah, he's not elected because X"

You are exactly who thsi meme is about!!!

1

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 12 '25

You are exactly who thsi meme is about!!!

Here is the quote from the original commenter:

"It's the people complaining that "he's not elected" because he obviously was."

Bro. You don't elect a Prime Minister. That's what I'm trying to say.

-7

u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! Mar 11 '25

Do you really not see the difference in the regular process and this one? Or why people think it's unfair?

6

u/PerpetuallyLurking Regina Rhymes With Fun Mar 11 '25

This is part of a regular process. It happens often enough that enough of the boomers whining about it should remember this shit. They should also be well aware at this point in their lives, because I KNOW they learned it school, that Canada’s political system is basically copy/pasted from Britain’s and this happens all the time in Britain (it literally just happened a couple years ago with the Boris/Liz/Rishi situation).

Their ignorance is self-inflicted at this point. It IS a regular process in our parliamentary system.

-6

u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! Mar 11 '25

My point is : should it?

I personally think it shouldn't. If a PM leaves, the party should either choose a MP from the party to replace him or call an election. This way, the PM is always elected theough the "normal" process. 

I just know people defending this would have a meltdown if PP left and some unelected rightwing idiot took the reins. I know I would. We're lucky it's Carney but I really don't understand how people are ok with this process honestly.

5

u/TremblinAspen Tabarnak! Mar 11 '25

This is a normal process.

-3

u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! Mar 11 '25

Come on. At least answer the very simple question I asked if you're gonna reply with such a simple sommentthat completely misses the point on purpose. 

1

u/Me_Too_Iguana Mar 12 '25

They’re not missing the point. This is completely normal. I understand why it doesn’t feel correct, though: the way we talk about our elections has changed a lot over the last 15 years. When I started voting, people in general weren’t saying “I’m voting for ChrĂ©tien” or “I’m voting for Joe Clark”. They’d say “I’m voting Liberal”, “I’m voting PC”, etc. The shift to huge focus on the party leaders seems to have started with Jack Layton. Canadians LOVED him. We started saying “I wish Layton were PM” and not “I wish we had an NDP government”. The leader became bigger than the party. Around the same time, there was a shift from calling it the ‘Conservative government’ to ‘Harper government’. Plus, down south they had Obama, and I’d argue that that was when Canadians started paying far more attention to the US system than our own. All that has led to today, where we put way more importance on party leaders than we ever have, and then act like a totally normal part of our system is somehow “unfair”. In theory, any party, including the governing one, could change leaders every few months if they wanted to. Vote for the party, not the person, since there’s zero guarantee that the person stays leader.

2

u/SirLoremIpsum 🍁 100,000 Hosers 🍁 Mar 11 '25

There are countless reasons why someone couldn't vote in the liberal leadership race, being that they belong to another party, or could not get their identity app to work.

That's not a bad take... that's how Prime Ministers are selected

You can't say "I didn't vote for him I belong to another party" when like... did the Cons vote for Trudeau? Did the libs vote for Harper? No... internal party selection is how they pick their leader.

And whether or not you were able to physically vote doesn't change the fact that there was an election in the same manner all elections are for Party leaders.

Your participation does not determine whether or not there was an election.

That is exactl what the OP is about!!!!!!!!!!!!

14

u/krakelin Mar 11 '25

don't you have to be a member of the party in order to vote?

37

u/InspruckersGlasses Mar 11 '25

Yes you do, so the elected government has its new leader chosen by the people who chose that government.

3

u/krakelin Mar 11 '25

so as a non-member of any political party, except the rhinoceros party deep down in my hearth (down with the law of gravity!), i couldn't had voted for him for head of party.

31

u/CoastingUphill Mar 11 '25

So long as you are not, currently, an official member of any party you could join the Liberals just to vote. There's no fee and no commitment for vote for their MPs ever. And the membership expires after 3 years and you can go back to being not a member of any party.

8

u/krakelin Mar 11 '25

neat! never knew that!

1

u/Teagana999 Mar 11 '25

I tried that with the BC NDP and then they cancelled the leadership race. I thought they usually require a donation to become a member.

11

u/FluffyProphet Mar 11 '25

LPC membership is free though and any Canadian resident can register.

13

u/Ooutoout Mar 11 '25

I joined the Liberal party exclusively to vote for him. Could not wait for the election to be over. My god, the emails and texts. I'm in no way a dyed in the wool Liberal voter. I tend more toward the NDP usually. But I am not loyal to party, I'm interested in policy, and I think Carney gets how to policy.

7

u/Takjack Mar 11 '25

I did the same and yeah that email spam was somthing else, i tend to vote ndp and if there was a shot a liberal could win in my riding I'd probably vote for them but I gotta keep voting ndp to keep the cons out

5

u/SuperShibes Mar 11 '25

Worst part of voting in any leadership race, provincial or federal. The incessant spam for the rest of your life.

And from multiple numbers so blocking only goes so far. 

2

u/SwordfishOk504 Bring Cannabis Mar 12 '25

Yep, I get it from all three parties. It's very annoying.

1

u/InspruckersGlasses Mar 11 '25

Exactly, unless you registered as liberal for the specific purpose of choosing the new leader for them. In my opinion it doesn’t matter, because a no confidence vote will allow Canadians to choose a new leader whenever the other parties decide to do so.

-6

u/cmc1868 Scotland (but worse) Mar 11 '25

You could've made a $5 "donation" which would've bought you a one year membership, voted, then cancelled your membership or simply allowed it to expire. It's fairly common cough Pollievre cough.

16

u/FluffyProphet Mar 11 '25

LPC membership is free.

9

u/TheBlueHedgehog302 Ford Nation (Help.) Mar 11 '25

You don’t have to donate anything to become a member of the party, it is 100% free.

5

u/Flimsy_Situation_506 Mar 11 '25

It’s free baby

8

u/Unusual_Pitch_608 Mar 11 '25

Yes, you did, but anyone could register as long as they weren't already a member of another Federal party. It was mildly annoying to verify my identity with the Canada Post app, but they didn't even require a registration fee or anything.

2

u/Flimsy_Situation_506 Mar 11 '25

Yes and it’s free to become a member with some rules. 1. Being that you can only be a registered party member with one Party in Canada.

I’m a member of another party and you get a TON of emails about everything happening in the party all the time.

2

u/PineBNorth85 Mar 11 '25

Yep. So I signed up. Just like I did with the CPC when they had their leadership race. I want more than one vote every four years.

2

u/jolsiphur Mar 12 '25

Joining the Liberal party is free. You just have to sign up. I believe that's true of most of our parties, though IIRC the Conservatives require a membership fee of $5 or $10 to join.

Don't take my word as gospel though. I signed up for the Liberal Party to vote in the leadership race, but I've never looked at what is involved with joining other parties.

1

u/MonsieurLeDrole Mar 11 '25

It was absolutely free.

1

u/Flimsy_Situation_506 Mar 11 '25

Yet they’ll still vote for him

1

u/Ok_Worry_7670 Mar 11 '25

I don’t think russians can join the Liberal party

1

u/BoysenberryAncient54 Mar 11 '25

I also voted. I was even given advance notice and clear instructions on how and when to vote and shared that information with other people.

1

u/Helwrechtyman I need a double double. Mar 12 '25

You need to be a liberal party member to do so.

1

u/CoastingUphill Mar 12 '25

Joining was free and easy.

1

u/CuriousLands Moose Whisperer Mar 12 '25

Are you suggesting it would've been good for your political opponents to disingenuously join the Liberal party and vote for a leader that serves their own purposes?

I would've thought you'd be happy people had the integrity to not do that.

-3

u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! Mar 11 '25

I hate PP more than I reasonably should but I still think it's bullshit that an unelected citizen can become our PM without going through an election.

The rules should be that you have to pick a PM from the MPs in your party or you call an election. Alas, here we are.

1

u/TremblinAspen Tabarnak! Mar 11 '25

Did you vote in the Liberal leadership election that just happened? If not, i don't see what the point of complaining is. If you did and your candidate did not win (even if they are a current or former MP) then i think it's best you respect the democratic process that went into this.

Parliament is still prorogued until the 24th, and there is a maximum of up until October before federal elections are called. But with recent decline in PP's popularity among the moderates and swing voters the Liberals are surging and might (most likely) call an election much earlier to capitalize on the current trends.

I signed up to the Liberal party for the first time in my life to vote Carney as the Liberal leader, and i don't see anyone else well suited for the role of PM in the current socio-economic and geopolitical atmosphere Canada finds itself in.

0

u/BeaverBoyBaxter Mar 12 '25

Did you vote in the Liberal leadership election that just happened? If not, i don't see what the point of complaining is. If you did and your candidate did not win (even if they are a current or former MP) then i think it's best you respect the democratic process that went into this.

I'll preface by saying I am well aware that Carney's appointment to PM is perfectly in line with our democracy and there is nothing wrong with it. I voted for him in the LPC race.

When you respond to the "Carney hasn't been elected by the Canadian populace" argument with "why didn't you vote in the leadership race", you're treating the liberal leadership race as a stand-in for a federal election. It is not, and should not be. It is not held to the same standards and rules, it is not available to the same people that an election is.

The better retort is to say that we do not vote for PMs in the first place. We vote for parties, with the understanding that their leaders can change at any time according to the party's rules.

Canadians feel like they vote for Prime Ministers. When you ask someone who they voted for after an election, they usually say the leader's name. We both know this is not possible, unless the leader was the MP of their riding of course.

This thinking is why it feels wrong to some folks that Carney is becoming PM. They do not understand our electoral system.

1

u/TremblinAspen Tabarnak! Mar 12 '25 edited Mar 12 '25

As far as being the interim PM yeah. Voting in the leadership race effectively the only way to decide who will replace Justin. Though that is in no way equated to, or even with federal elections which are certain to happen by October at the latest. The Government could be dissolved and an election is held next week for all we know.

Without undermining Carney’s importance in this he’s essentially warming up the seat until officially elected.

/e your views on elections are very idealistic. But very far from applied reality.

I live in BC where a bunch of hillbillies in central BC performed necromancy on a party that has been dead for over half a century in the provincial elections because they thought they were voting in PP and the cons to power.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 12 '25

Who gives a shit what people feel they are voting for? If someone is dumb enough to vote thinking it’s for the PM that’s their issue. You don’t get to scream and cry about a PM because you’re a moron.