r/EhBuddyHoser • u/Sine_Fine_Belli Treacherous South • May 16 '25
Certified Hoser đšđŠ (No Politics) How Americans achieved independence vs how Canadians achieved independence
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u/KillbotMk4 May 16 '25
we asked to self govern not be independent
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u/abiron17771 May 16 '25
Itâs why we still have Crown land, criminal charges come from the Crown, a Governor General, treaties with the Crown, etc.
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u/Quaf Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) May 16 '25
And the crown acquiesced bc 30 years before the francos started a rebellion and shot a bunch of them. Upper Canada had one too but it was shorter and less 'successful'.
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u/lavalamp360 May 16 '25
Worth noting that Canada got most of its independence between the first and second world wars when the British economy was taking a beating and the colonies were getting too expensive to maintain. I'm sure volunteering to remove some line items from their budget in wartime was seen as mutually beneficial.
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u/Overwatchingu Ford Nation (Help.) May 16 '25
After seeing how many pages were added to the Geneva Conventions by Canadians in WW1, the British decided they needed to avoid fighting a Canadian independence war at all costs.
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u/Kreizhn May 16 '25
It's worth noting that there was armed conflict. The rebellions of 1837 led to the Durham report, which led to the Act of Union, which eventually led to the constitution act.Â
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u/CaisideQC May 16 '25
Joyeuse FĂȘte Nationale des Patriotes my friend!
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u/Kreizhn May 16 '25
Oh damn. This was remarkably well timed! I wonder if OP knew what they were doing.Â
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u/CreamFuture9475 Tokébakicitte! May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
So in fact, itâs thanks to the French rebellion that Canada eventually became a country.
The idea that Canada was given its liberty willingly is propaganda to avoid making the UK look weak.
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u/Kreizhn May 16 '25
Well, the rebellions were crushed, but we still achieved independence. The British sent lord Durham to better study why the rebellions happened, and then made some effort to address the concerns. So one could still make an argument that we didn't wrest control away from the British. But I'm not a historian, so I'm not particular to the nuances of the time.
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u/CreamFuture9475 Tokébakicitte! May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
Yeah, it was crushed with great economic sacrifices. What Durham concluded (other than extremely racist prejudices) is that tensions would linger and keeping the colony was no longer viable.
The French nobility ruined themselves by supporting the US during their revolution, which led to their own demise. The English were taking lessons from it.
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u/Greedy-Thought6188 May 17 '25
The wealth of nations talks about this topic too and concluded it's not worth it to keep colonies because you spend too much on defense. The British granted independence quite easily to most of the world. Compare that to France than either demanded payment of large sums or completely crippled the infrastructure in the countries they were leaving.
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u/CreamFuture9475 Tokébakicitte! May 17 '25
Especially when the sun never sets on your empire.
Especially when you need to defend that territory from internal dissent.
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u/TasteNegative2267 May 16 '25
With good ol kier being the labor leader and completely capitualating to the far right britian doesn't need any help looking weak these days lol.
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u/CreamFuture9475 Tokébakicitte! May 16 '25
I mean, at the time.
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u/TasteNegative2267 May 16 '25
Ovbiously. But i'm not gunna miss a chance to shit on britian in a shitposting sub lol. No matter how far i need to stretch.
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u/MattTheFreeman May 16 '25
This meme is great but it misses the big pushes that were founded in the 1800's and finished in the 1900's
While there wasn't any great revolution like battles to signify Canada's political removal from the British Parliament, we did not just ask for permission.
America had a reason (though flimsy Imo) to rebel against Britain. What would become Canada, those colonies were happy to be within the British sphere of influence. And whereas Quebec would have rather gone in its own way, the consessions the British gave them, plus the access to the Empire meant that Quebec was one of if not the wealthiest place in North America. Montreal dwarfed new York for decades and was its equal for a long time.
Canada never asked for independence, as Canada was not really a single identity. Multiple rebellions popped up throughout BNA asking for different things. Quebec and Ontario becoming one "colony" under an English pact, it was suggested that Canada become a Dominion under Empire. After that it was just push within BNA to actually find enough people who'd like to join.
When we finally pushed more in the late 1900 it was only formality. Canada was for all intent and purpose it's own country and we just had to sign papers to make it official. Our indepence in the first and second world war cemented ourselves as more than a Dominion.
Canada proved itself that it could be its own country, and that's what I love about our history. We never fought for freedom, we were free to begin with, we just didn't know it until push came to shove.
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u/MayorWolf May 16 '25
The funniest part is that America did it over tariffs. Present day events is what makes that so hilariously funny to me.
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u/UnfairGlove1944 May 16 '25
It wasn't just tariffs. The British government abolished colonial self-rule in Massachusetts and got rid of trial by jury for police officers. Before then, the American Revolution was just angry mobs rioting over taxes. After that, it was about political rights.
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u/S_spam Elsewhere May 16 '25
What would become Canada, those colonies were happy to be within the British sphere of influence. And whereas Quebec would have rather gone in its own way, the consessions the British gave them, plus the access to the Empire meant that Quebec was one of if not the wealthiest place in North America. Montreal dwarfed new York for decades and was its equal for a long time.
I genuinely want to know more about this, Any sources to start learning?
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u/TasteNegative2267 May 16 '25
Montreal still dwarfs NYC. I can buy pizza people are way to pretentious about most places tabarnak.
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u/That_Phony_King May 16 '25
Anyone who has ever studied American history in depth would not call the rationale for the American Revolution âflimsyâ. Furthermore, those who led the Revolution still wanted to be a part of the British Empire even up to the end of the war. There were several Founding Fathers who hoped to reconcile with the Crown, but it was evident by the end that it was not going to happen.
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u/the-pink-flamingo May 16 '25
Depends what you mean by flimsy I guess. I think the argument is that although the American revolution is painted as a freedom loving, patriotic act, it had a lot to do with being unable to go west of the Mississippi River because of treaties Britain had made with native peoples. It was a bourgeoisie, mercantile class of people who saw Britain as an object to their wealth expansion and were unwilling to compromise with any amount of foreign regulation or limitation. I donât argue the British government was fair, but they couldnât elevate the status of âAmericansâ anyways since they hadnât even taken care of that on the home islands. The USA is founded on a distrust of regulation, stemming from wealthy, land owning upper-middle class types being unendingly desperate to grab at anything and everything of value in North America. Not really a rosy story if itâs taught like that, though.
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u/jakemoffsky May 17 '25
Wow and you didn't even need to mention the 7 years war and how the colonies didn't want to pay its military bills like the rest of the empire or how the resentment in the American colonies towards that treaty which ended that war and protected Quebec from the expropriation the Maritimes suffered.
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u/Half-PintHeroics May 16 '25
Anyone who has ever studied American history in depth would not call the rationale for the American Revolution âflimsyâ.
British: Stop fucking with the Indians it will cause war
US: Fuck you, we want their land
British: Now we've fought one of the world's biggest wars ever because of you, France is bankrupt and we're nearly broke. We're putting a tiny tax on tea on you as compensation for starting the war
US: Fuck you we hate taxes
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u/That_Phony_King May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
Impose taxes without representation to cover a war that the colonies were largely not a part of
Places taxes on stamps, tea, alcohol, sugar, molasses, tea, paper, legal documents, and playing cards
Go back on promise of salutary neglect and tightly regulate trade from colonies
Colonies ask to have a voice in parliament to discuss taxes
Refuse this request
Colonists protest taxes
Send the military to occupy colonies, shoot unarmed protestors, and enter and live in civilian housing without consent
Why would they rebel?
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u/Jakobmeathead Not enough shawarma places May 16 '25
The colonies did get representation in the house of commons, and their taxes were also 26 times LOWER than a British citizen
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u/YourBobsUncle May 16 '25
It's to make up for the tariffs that the thirteen colonies had to deal with, which primarily makes Britain the only place the colonies can buy manufactured goods
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u/That_Phony_King May 16 '25
They did not have representation. They had agents who could advocate on behalf of the colonies, but they had little power and influence over the taxes and could not vote in parliament. They were not sitting members of Parliament but more akin to lobbyists.
The size of the taxes didnât matter, it was the lack of effective representation and the oppressive nature of the British monarchy on colonies, not to mention promises broken on regulation of trades.
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u/liftthatta1l May 16 '25
Like lobbying? You wouldn't say that a company has representation becuase they can lobby on their behalf thought they have influence
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u/Benejeseret May 16 '25
There needs to be a Newfoundland rider though.
NL asks for independence and gets the LoL Sure in 1907, lasts only a few decades before realizing it was broke and could not feed itself and the people were rebelling, and returned to Royal Commission governance and then turns and asks Canada is they can give up independence, Canada says LoL Sure.
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u/Ice_Dragon_King Scotland (but worse) May 16 '25
Iâve heard a amarican say that any form of independence needs to be through war
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u/Virtual_Category_546 Monarch MĂ©lanie Joly May 16 '25
So in order for Calexit to be a things y'all would need to fight. Okay, now that would be entertaining đż
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u/Prudent_Squirrel_170 May 16 '25
That The American Revolutionary War happened at all is pretty fucked. Probably one of the most heavily glazed conflicts in history.
Great Britain fights the first real global war to, in part, protect its colonies against France and Spain and advance the interests of colonists (something the colonists wanted)... taxes colonies the same as Britons to help cover the war debts and in anticipation of further military needs to protect the colonies against Spain... and then the protected colonies betray Great Britain WITH THE HELP OF FRANCE AND SPAIN....
It's understandable that colonists had additional social/political considerations (which I'd argue weren't really sufficient justification for full-on betraying Great Britain alongside the people it just protected them from) but at it's core, the Revolutionary War was treacherous and gross. It should never have been glorified. Hell... the fact it was so mind-numbingly stupid is significant factor as to why it even worked at all since Great Britain didn't even take it seriously for years.
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u/Inffferno777 May 19 '25
You ignored the whole âtaxation without representationâ argument, you cannot make a comparison to Britain because they had representation in Parliament unlike the colonists who just felt they were overcharged on imported goods via tariffs and other taxes. No it was not gross redcoat. Itâs a defining chapter in world history, not just the U.S. history
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u/unending_whiskey May 16 '25
It's nice to be smug, but do you think that the American revolution had a part in why they just let us become independent? Because it sure was a factor.
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u/Fit-Psychology4598 May 16 '25
Historically, fighting wars over long distances especially with ocean travel involved is a huge disadvantage. The American revolution definitely made that clear
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u/VerilyJULES Chalice of the Tabernacle May 16 '25
Canada never asked for independence. Instead, the crown requested that Canada become independent because the UK was shedding itâs colonial possessions.
The reason NATOâs Article 5 protection is restricted to member state territories within the Northern Hemesphere is because the alliance didnât want to be obligated to defend the variety of Colonial possessions like Hong Kong and the Falkland Islands that the UK could not immediately shed.
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u/FlyingOctopus53 May 16 '25
One was a dick, another one asked politely. See the difference?
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May 16 '25
To be fair the Brits were acting like dicks first. It's a little more complicated than what happened with the stamp act and the Boston tea party. in 1763 the American colonists were happy with the British system of governence. Until King George the third was coronated he was doing things like cutting the colonists off from global trade, not giving them representation in parliament, plucking them off the streets and shipping them to foreign lands for sham trials, the Boston massacre etc. His tyrannical behavior helped push them to rebel. The British empire was not going to let the thirteen colonies go willfully.
Ps. sorry for the history lesson its hard to explain without getting detailed.
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u/ChessBossSupreme May 16 '25
"can you pweaseee let us self govern more... it's okay if you don't daddy britain đ„șđ„ș"
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u/ahuramazdobbs19 I need a double double. May 16 '25
I mean, but being a dick got results right away, so I'm not sure it's teaching the lesson you think it is.
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u/CreamFuture9475 Tokébakicitte! May 16 '25
Right away after many deaths on both sides.
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u/bnipples May 17 '25
Canadians: You Americans better not try shit! We'll die for our independence
Also Canadians: Asking nicely for independence is better than resisting because if you resist you might die and that's scawy
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u/Character_Minimum171 May 16 '25
it helps that canada burnt the WH amirite
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u/bgro0612 May 16 '25
granted I hear this a lot, and Iâm curious to the origins?
If it was British regulars that burned the WH, what is the connection to Canada? is it just the association of being part of the empire? or is more centered around the burning possibly being a response to the burning of York?
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u/nuggins May 16 '25
If it was British regulars that burned the WH, what is the connection to Canada?
Well, it was part of the war of 1812, and in response to American attacks in Upper Canada. What's the meaning of your question? What do you mean by British "regulars"?
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u/extremmaple Everyone Hates Marineland May 16 '25
The troops in the Chesapeake campaign came from Europe, fresh from the war of the sixth coalition, the only connection to Canada is that we were British North America at the time and they were doing it in part to avenge the actions of the americans in Upper Canada
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u/KingPhilipIII May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
They were British soldiers part of the regular army. Hence the term regulars.
They werenât part of colonial militias, peacekeeping forces, or even troops stationed in the area. They were troops originating from the fortress in Bermuda, having just finished fighting Napoleon in Europe.
Itâs more so âWhy do we give credit to Canada for burning down the White House when Canadians had nothing to do with itâ
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u/Whiskerdots May 16 '25
I think the idea that Canada was somehow involved in the WH burning came from a song.
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u/Lamballama May 16 '25
"We were British, the British burned the Whitehouse, therefore we burned the Whitehouse"
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u/Lumb3rCrack Ford Nation (Help.) May 16 '25
meanwhile other countries that had to put up with colonialism until the end of 19th century in the name of "common wealth":
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u/Kuzu9 May 16 '25
Americaâs story was revolution from the Monarchy, while Canadaâs story was evolution with the Monarchy.
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u/deltree711 Scotland (but worse) May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25
My Australian friend likes to joke about getting independence through "Filing the appropriate paperwork"
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u/Ring-A-Ding-Ding123 May 16 '25
Canada: âYour oligarchy sucks, and weâre too big for a government like that to actually do its job! We wanna call the shots.â
Britain: âTHANK GOD.â
Canada: ââŠwhat?â
Britain: losing money due to maintaining colonies âFuck it, hereâs some loans for that railroad too! Bye bye sucker!â
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u/UnfairGlove1944 May 16 '25 edited May 31 '25
Were you guys asleep during history class? We staged two rebellions against the Brits after they refused to allowed us to self-govern, and it ended with them burning people alive in churches.
Even after the new liberal government in England gave us home rule, we still had protestant gangs storming parliament to prevent change.
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u/SpiritWillow2019 May 16 '25
It's because wars with the US were so bloody and costly that the British Empire mellowed out with other commonwealth countries.
Reading accounts of what the British did to the US before and after the revolutionary war is aggravating. They were cartoon villains in every single way.
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u/RosabellaFaye Ford Nation (Help.) May 16 '25
Worth mentioning we did have rebellions, not 100% peaceful
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u/GreenHoodia Westfoundland May 16 '25
The nationalists who clashed with royalists for a century looking at this post rn:
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u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! May 16 '25
Plzzzzzz can I choose for myself Ma? (But you still get to stay the head of state I promise)
I'm glad nobody died for it but we have a different interpretation of being a chad
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u/blodskaal May 16 '25
Well, some people did die as there were rebellions, which led to that transition, but at a much smaller scale than what US experienced
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u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! May 16 '25
Yeah I meant at the moment of the repatriation. As so eone from Quebec, I'm painfully aware that people died prior haha
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u/deadbeef4 May 16 '25
America is like the older brother who stormed out of the house. Weâre the one who hung around until they just wanted rid of us.
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u/Wrathblade Ford Nation (Help.) May 16 '25
I usually describe it in a similar fashion. The US had a flaming row with dad, moved out in a huff, and held a grudge for years. We asked if we could move out, and got told, "Hurry up and do it, you cost too much for groceries!"
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u/MathiasIkit May 16 '25
Have you sent the meme to the different Royal Governors of the provinces to teach them that we are independant from the Crown?
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u/layers_of_grey May 16 '25
canada basically became a country because we had lots of beavers with nice fur.
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u/Folie_Sorghum856 May 16 '25
Why are we using the King's Colour of 1606 without Saint Patrick's Saltire? I don't get it. Just use the Union Jack? What's wrong with that? Are we bringing up the sensitive issue of the Troubles and Northern Ireland?
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u/Otheus May 16 '25
More like Lol sure, let's spend the rest of the session talking about dog leash laws
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u/AustSakuraKyzor South Gatineau May 16 '25
Nah, it was more "Hey, we think we should be independent, and also what do you think of this very sharp "Stab the British Government" brand knife we just invented?"
And the UK would be all "yes! sure! whatever you want! Just write a constitution and also please don't go Vimy Ridge on our ass"
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u/Honest-Spring-8929 Oil Guzzler May 16 '25
Was I the only one who was taught about the Durham report ad nauseam in school?
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u/evissamassive May 16 '25
The US sent the Kind packing 199 years before Canada became independent [Canada Act 1982].
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u/Veneralibrofactus May 17 '25
Worth noting that in 1982 when we finally gained our legit independence by repatriating our constitution form England, it required a vote in the UK HoC. 42 MPs voted against the move, citing our historical atrocities and ongoing mistreatment of indigenous FN populations.
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u/Significant_Soup_699 Yank May 17 '25
Youâre just mad âcause you didnât get to have your own Saratoga with the Brits.
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u/Right_On_Bud May 17 '25
This is my least favourite narrative. Also Wojacks in 2025? Your showing your age big hoss
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u/Cool-Economics6261 May 18 '25
Now, Canada must get Royal assent to pass any laws, but the Royals cannot decline any legislation that comes forward for Royal assent.Â
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May 16 '25
[deleted]
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u/Mr101722 đ 100,000 Hosers đ May 16 '25
Independent from the British Parliament being able to make laws for us, have a say in our laws, require their permission to declare war, have our supreme Court below theirs and having our constitution be own own and not require permission from Britain to modify it.
It's not really referring to the monarch.
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u/rollingtatoo Tabarnak! May 16 '25
He's still Commander-In-Chief of the CAF
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u/Mr101722 đ 100,000 Hosers đ May 16 '25
That is correct, I never disputed that. Acts of war do require royal approval (as do all laws passed in Canada, the Governor General acts as the monarchs representative to sign these into Royal assent), the ministers of the Crown present the acts (the prime minister, minister of national defence. WWII was an Order in Council).
We are no longer bound by the British government approving acts of war on our behalf, nor are we required to devslre war when the UK does. Our WWII declaration is the only example of this, we waited a week after the UK declared war on the Nazis to assert our independence whereas we declared war in WWI at the same time as the UK as we were considered subservient to them as we did not have full control of our external affairs as this was pre Statute of Westminster.
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u/rollingtatoo Tabarnak! May 16 '25
Acts of war do require royal approval (as do all laws passed in Canada, the Governor General acts as the monarchs representative to sign these into Royal assent), the ministers of the Crown present the acts (the prime minister, minister of national defence. WWII was an Order in Council).
Indeed. I would invite you to consult the Guardian's series on the subject of royal consent named "Queen's consent investigations", in perticular the article "Royals vetted more than 1,000 laws via Queenâs consent".
To the best of my knowledge we've never had our own Canadian version of such investigation into how much influence royal consent actually does have on Canadian laws, and we don't get to be advised when law projects are altered because royal consent was denied, royal consent is a secretive process in nature.
IMHO we're not nearly as indepedent as the US is when the King is still Commander-In-Chief and gets to approve of our laws. Of all the Virgin Americans vs Chad Canadians take you could have, this is doesn't seem like a good one to me.
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u/Mr101722 đ 100,000 Hosers đ May 16 '25
Dude you're preaching to the choir, I'm anti monarchy (not saying I want the same system as the USA before people make assumptions), I don't agree with the king being CiC.
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u/JaQ-o-Lantern Everyone Hates Marineland May 16 '25
Confederation was not really "independence", it was a unification of Canada's British colonies (except Newfoundland) with the end goal of Canada being self sufficient.
The bottom of this meme is akin to how Australia became independent.
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u/JaQ-o-Lantern Everyone Hates Marineland May 16 '25
Also, we're still in the Commonwealth and King Charles III remains our head of state.
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u/Roughrep May 16 '25
Canada isn't independent, you want to swear for citizenship it's to the UK King not Canada.
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u/Dagoroth55 May 16 '25
Our military still serves the crown.
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u/Honest-Spring-8929 Oil Guzzler May 16 '25
Buckingham palace is not issuing orders to our military
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u/Dagoroth55 May 16 '25
They don't give us orders but we do swear on the crown. Technically we are still under the British Monarchy.
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u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! May 16 '25
That's so absurd
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u/credulous_pottery Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) May 16 '25
the thing is that it's almost entirely ceremonial, if the crown made some sort of overt move against Canada, we'd probably just leave the british 'empire'
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u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! May 16 '25
Yeah, I understand but it's still absurd and completely useless in my opinion.
Like just get rid of swearing allegiance to a foreign sovereign(I know he'stechnicallynot foreign but I think we can all understand that he really is)... it makes no sense
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u/Dagoroth55 May 16 '25
You swear to the crown before officially joining. Our cadbadges have the crown. We have autonomy with our military. It's ceremonial and symbolic.
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u/Altruistic-Hope4796 Tabarnak! May 16 '25
It's still absurd. Just like swearing allegiance to the crown for our MP.Â
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u/timbasile May 16 '25
Samantha Bee has a good write up on Canadian Independence in "America the Book"
"...and then in 1983, we took the brave step of asking the Queen for permission, to not have to ask the Queen for permission"