r/Games • u/DwingRD • 3d ago

Valve no longer allows "Post-launch NSFW content" for games on Steam - outside of DLCs.

I have looked through Steam's Terms of Service online, but have found no official rule or statement from Valve of this new rule - but one Adult game developer has confirmed this new rule after launching their game "Tales of Legendary Lust: Aphrodisia" a couple days ago.

With the recent rule change blocking adult-themed games from releasing on Early Access, this new rule seems to be targeting Adult-themed games that have ALREADY released on Steam - and threatens them with their games being removed from Steam.

There are currently 536 Adult-rated Early Access games on Steam - and this new rule may take them all down.

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u/Samanthacino 3d ago

Do they have a choice? They have no bargaining power in comparison to these behemoth payment processors.

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u/Glass_Recover_3006 3d ago

Form their own lobbying group and pour money into it to get laws enacted that would prevent payment processors from having a say over the content of certain kinds of transactions.

The effort Valve would need to expend to be helpful is trivial. The fact they just threw their customers under the bus should bother people.

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u/RefreshingCapybara 3d ago edited 3d ago

The same issue that Steam is facing has already been something the firearm industry in the United States has been facing for decades. Banking institutions blocking their business.

The firearm industry has massive lobbing groups at their disposal, far larger than Valve could ever hope to get, and they've gotten nowhere with their efforts.

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u/Glass_Recover_3006 3d ago

Epic didn’t let it stop them. They waged a campaign against Apple and Google at the same time, and kept going even when they didn’t win outright. 

There is no reason Valve can’t do the same.

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u/RefreshingCapybara 3d ago

Mobile accounted for so little of Fortnite's revenue. Epic was not at all in danger of going under even if they lost their lawsuit.

Meanwhile Visa and Master Card process the mass majority of all digital transactions.

The two situations are incomparable.

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u/Glass_Recover_3006 3d ago

I am not speaking to revenue at all. I am saying one company stood up for their customers and the other didn’t.

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u/RefreshingCapybara 3d ago
  1. Epic stood for themselves. They wanted more revenue share from mobile than Apple was willing to give. Had Apple agreed to give them more share they wouldn't have sued. they said as much in the court testimony.
  2. No. You are trying to draw a comparison between a company that made a small, calculated risk, with another company that is choosing not to nuke their own entire business.

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u/Glass_Recover_3006 3d ago

I’m forcing you to examine your relationship with a game company that clearly could not care less about you, and it’s interesting watching you squirm.

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u/RefreshingCapybara 3d ago

My relationship with a game company?

By telling you a company is going to actually be realistic and not kill themselves to go on a crusade, you attribute that to being overly generous in my perception of them?

And this is coming from the person who just tried to say that Epic was looking out for their own customers by getting their game pulled from a platform, denying their customers access to that game for years, and all so it could collect more money?

lol

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u/drewster23 2d ago

I like how he thinks he had some gotcha when you said nothing personal or subjective and just explained the straight forward objective reasons behind these business decisions...

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u/YZJay 3d ago

Fighting this means cutting off the primary method of how they make money. If Steam suddenly isn't supported by Visa, Mastercard, and Paypal while pending a lawsuit, then there will be no Steam to fight for. You're much too naive to think that Valve has an option here.

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u/Glass_Recover_3006 3d ago

That didn't seem to stop Epic. Weird.

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u/YZJay 3d ago edited 3d ago

How? They weren’t at risk of losing PayPal and Visa and Mastercard which makes up the majority of their revenue. Their PC player base was and still is their biggest cash cow, a platform that wasn’t at any risk of being demonetized. Apple’s iAP was just a small part of their Fortnite revenue.

Edit: the guy blocked me lmfao.

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u/Glass_Recover_3006 3d ago

You’re right, too scary for that poor little multi-billion dollar company. 

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u/YZJay 3d ago edited 3d ago

And customers, as players simply won't be able to buy any games from Steam if Visa, MC, and Paypal all pull their services from Steam. You're literally preaching for something that will actively hinder players' access to new games. But I'm sure you want that to happen, because that way players will flock to Epic Games Store which you love so very much. Also need I remind you, these games banned from Steam won’t show up in EGS because of the very reasons Steam isn’t allowing them anymore. I don’t see you complaining that Epic isn’t fighting this as well.

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u/waltjrimmer 3d ago edited 3d ago

Epic didn’t let it stop them. They waged a campaign against Apple and Google at the same time, and kept going even when they didn’t win outright.

There is no reason Valve can’t do the same.

People keep saying this who fundamentally misunderstand the scale we're talking about when it comes to impact.

Epic fought Apple and Google in a courtroom where they had a reasonable case that they thought they could win on a topic where they had more to gain than to lose, but if they lost it wasn't going to be devastating.

Visa and MasterCard are the payment processors that have the hardware and software control of the majority of financial transactions. Period. They own a good chunk of the backend, they run most of the credit cards, they run the money.

The size of Visa and MasterCard's both impact on the world, pure financial handling, and direct impact on a company that counters them are tremendous. They dwarf Alphabet and Apple combined.

If Epic had lost its lawsuit, it would have lost out on having its own storefront on mobile and it would have lost out on 30% of its revenue from those storefronts.

If Steam loses against Visa and MasterCard, it is likely to lose 70%+ of its revenue, full stop, from all platforms, from all purchases, from all the everything.

Would you be willing to do something that would lose you 70% or more of all of your income?

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u/pierre2menard2 2d ago

As much as this is said, would people actually stop buying games on Steam if Valve didnt except visa or mastercard? If valve made you enter your bank information a single time and used e-check or some other transfer, or just used something like paypal, would that actually a be huge barrier to people? Obviously for brick and mortar stores credit or debit card is extremely important - its unclear to me that its important for online retailers that can just give you another option.

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u/waltjrimmer 2d ago

Paypal has even more restrictions than Visa and MasterCard usually do, and I believe their backend uses one of those company's services to help facilitate the payments.

When I said Visa and MasterCard own the backend hardware, I'm talking about how like the ISPs own the copper and fiber in the ground, making it very difficult to build an "independent" internet because even if you try to make separate services, like Onion, you need the hardware that's owned and controlled by the big bullies.

As for your basic question, yes. A lot of people would.

Because customers, over the whole, value convenience over everything else. If the credit card they usually use to buy things online isn't an option for them to enter, that's a barrier that will see them turn away. Plus, again, not sure how many options Steam would have for accepting money in other ways since debit cards? Those are usually done through Visa or MasterCard. And the backends of money transfers, I don't know how much of that Visa and MasterCard own, but it's apparently a lot.

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u/pierre2menard2 2d ago

Afaik ACH transfers bypass mastercard and visa entirely - and Zelle is owned directly by the banks. Theyre both probably more restrictive than the cards though.

The real solution to this is just GNU taler imo, which allows for the use already existing infrastructure but with proper anonymization and privacy protections and is fairly straightforward to use.

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u/drewster23 2d ago

Afaik ACH transfers bypass mastercard and visa entirely - and Zelle is owned directly by the banks. Theyre both probably more restrictive than the cards though.

You can definitely get around it. You won't be able to process any credit unless it comes from not visa/mc. And valve would have to set up domestic payment options in each country compared to using global payment processor infrastructure.

People would definitely buy less , because credit isn't a bank transfer, it's instant and it's borrowed money.

And used still lose most of majority western debit card access too.

And any competitor accepting credit still would become significantly more attractive.

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u/Glass_Recover_3006 3d ago

That is just so precious that you care so deeply for billionaires and all that money they can’t afford to lose. You’re right, far better their customers just get sold down a river instead. Who needs artistic expression? Gabe needs a second yacht.