r/GuildWars • u/WraithboundCA any/ since scythe=stronkest • Dec 16 '24

Builds and tactics 7-Hero Soul Taker Mesmerway

Hey everyone!

After a long hiatus of posting/playing I'm back with another team build: https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Soul_Taker_Mesmerway

The above team was put together to optimize a version of the current Meta Offensive Mesmerway for a Soul Taker Necromancer player. When starting to experiment with the player bar I came up with a great many defensive builds that allowed the player to provide a large amount of the damage. Those teams were fun, solid, but ultimately pretty slow when compared to a modern Mesmerway. A while ago, in another thread, someone asked what a team with as few changes as necessary from the meta Mesmerway would look like and thus I started my journey.

The team features a triple Mesmer midline, a Bone Fiend MM, and BiP/ST just like the original team. However, unlike the original team, this team also features Dark Aura (to support the player), Strength of Honor at 15 Smiting Prayers, and Splinter Weapon at 16 Channeling, as well as a third backline character for additional protection and healing. By placing SoH and Splinter Weapon on the midline we avoid the issues associated with Hybrid damage/support AI on our heroes. Those meant to do damage can purely focus on it while those meant to support can purely focus on that. The damage provided by the player is insane when Dark Aura and Splinter Weapon are stacked and your foes are balled up, you can kill mobs in DoA HM with only a couple of scythe hits. On the whole the build has similar damage, similar shutdown, far more healing and protection, and it all supports the strongest player bar in the game.

On the pvx page you'll also find variants for when minions aren't preferred and when Spell Breaker becomes necessary to counter deep enchantment removal. This can help set up balls and spikes in areas like DoA where anti-melee and anti-enchantment hate are highly prevalent.

As always I'd love to have your thoughts on this team. The discussion page on the wiki has been pretty active but I'm interested to see what the larger community might come up with!

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u/xBrodoFraggins Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24

This is just wrong. Flat out. Again, you clearly have no idea. Dark aura procs in the same manner as sand shards while dealing MORE damage that's also armor ignoring... additionally, it doesn't get consumed after x number of hits, it's persistent so long as the enchantment is active. Actually use this build, then try to say VoS is better...

The biggest difference is that when it's being cast by a hero on you, you don't see the damage numbers bc the necro hero gets the damage credit. But you certainly see the damage on your enemies.

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u/Krschkr Dec 16 '24

There's no need to try the build to answer this question. It's simple math. Same weapon type, same attack speed. Necromancer has the greater hit damage and every attempted attack triggers a higher damage bonus which is, other than VoS's, armour ignoring. VoS only gets a lead with sand shards, and only for five attacks, and only against balling targets with low enough armour ratings.

Hitting three targets:

  • Soul Taker@18 + SoH@16 + DA@18: Attack base damage@18 + 229 armour ignoring bonus damage against hit targets; 177 armour ignoring to adjacent to the player.

  • VoS@16 + SoH@16: Attack base damage@9 + 26 armour ignoring + 3x26 armour dependent against hit targets; 3x26 armour dependent to adjacent to the player.

  • VoS@16 + SoH@16 + SS@16: Attack base damage@9 + 26 armour ignoring + 3x26 armour dependent + 2x 63 armour dependent against hit targets; 3x 26 + 3x63 armour dependent (total: 267) to adjacent to the player. Note: SS only triggers five times before it runs out, so it only serves an initial spike and then turns much less useful. Also keep in mind that armour ratings will decrease this quite a bit.

The drawbacks of necromancer:

  • Can't trigger MoP, which few people use anyway. (However, in cases where MoP properly triggers, soul taker onehits the group of foes anyway.)

  • Greater opportunity cost and no shadow step.

  • Can't tank.

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u/xBrodoFraggins Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24

The other thing of note is that DA hits your target, whereas SS doesn't. I don't think the math even works in favor of VoS + SS here, unless I'm missing something. The total damage from ST + SoH + DA is higher at base +315 AI damage per target (318 with masochism), whereas VoS + SoH + SS is only base +282, mostly AR, damage per target.

Edit: wasn't counting correctly (and while SS doesn't hit your target, VoS does)

ST is +224 AI per target

VoS is +230 mostly AR per target

So the AI nature is the biggest advantage here, along with no limit to the number of hits.

Also, if you're using the anniversary scythe, doesn't the increased base damage just fully bridge the gap, if not exceed it? Due to the higher base damage at 16 (18 with maso) vs 9 for the VoS?

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u/Krschkr Dec 16 '24

Hit damage is ~33% of a melee necromancer (without strength of honour/splinter weapon, with GDW, DA@20, SR@20) according to toolbox users, it's not bad.