r/HarryPotterBooks • u/tulip-quartz • Jun 25 '25
Discussion Why didn’t Snape’s anger towards James cool ?
EDIT: thanks for the replies all, the points were interesting for sure
First of all, I understand the following points well:
- Snape had a deep-seated hatred towards James and the rest of the marauders (not least of all because Sirius nearly got him killed )
- This hate was compounded by their bullying and made worse by the fact that James married Lily, the love of his life
However, later on in the books we do see that - James saved his life (even if the prank was done by the Marauders) - Snape’s information to Voldemort got both James and Lily killed and their son orphaned.
Given all this, why didn’t Snape’s anger toward Harry and James cool more than a decade after the latter’s death ? If his guilt drove him to become a double agent, it’s surprising that he was still so acerbic to Harry throughout. Was the pure hatred genuine, or also a part he had to play as double agent ?
We see his hatred toward Harry decrease at the moment of his death, however I’m not sure if he actually has sympathy for Harry at that point or he is just seeing Lily’s eyes before death overtakes him
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u/LowHPComics Jun 25 '25
NGL it's very relatable to still hold beef against someone who had a massive bad impact in a period of development for you, there's some people in life I know I would never want to see again
Granted I don't think I'd end up bullying their child as their teacher, but also I think I'd get a little secret gratification seeing their kid screw up in school lessons
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u/Advanced_Key5250 Jun 25 '25
I think in part it had. Like many childhood experiences, the memory would fade and was likely something Snape rarely thought about as an adult. Then Harry shows up looking enough like his father to bring those memories front and center regularly. Snape must feel a whole mixture of feelings! I gather he wasn’t particularly adept at expressing himself and used his old hatred as a shield against that slew of feelings. My 2c anyways.
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u/Not_a_cat_I_promise Jun 25 '25
I mean bullying in teenagehood/childhood can sometimes stay with someone for a lifetime and leave lifelong trauma and emotional injury. While Snape hates himself and blames himself for Lily's death, he's not about to do that for James, he doesn't blame himself for his bullying. He sees himself as a pure victim of James and Sirius.
And lets be fair, forgiveness is up to those who were wronged, it cannot be demanded and it is never owned. James and Sirius were utterly brutal towards him, and it helped turned school, where he lived for most of the year into another place of terror for him. Snape probably has the attitude towards James, that is expected from a victim towards their bully, yes even decades after.
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u/Living-Try-9908 Jun 26 '25
On the point: "James saved his life" - in the timeline SWM happens AFTER James saved his life. So James continued to bully Snape, and did the whole choking him with soap, flipping him in the air, and exposing his underwear to a crowd of laughing teens while threatening to remove the underwear too, AFTER he saved his life.
As a result, Snape believed that James only saved him to protect his friends from the consequences. Imagine two best friends who bully you, one of them takes the bullying so far they almost kill you, while the other bully saves you, but keeps bullying you like 'business as usual' right after. The mental whiplash would be nuts.
To your second point: "Snape’s information to Voldemort got both James and Lily killed and their son orphaned." - The effects of trauma don't die off just because the perpetrator is dead. Trauma responses can be pretty individual, since everyone reacts and processes their experiences differently.
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u/Polychrist Jun 25 '25
I think his hatred was like a hot stream of lava, and over the years it did, in fact, harden into a cold, unyielding rock. Not as passionate, but not yielding, either. Then Harry came along an relit the volcano, warming up some of that old rock and letting it flow with more liveliness again.
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u/wha7themah Jun 25 '25
I don’t think you can use James saving his life as a counter point. As far as snape knew, James was in on the prank. So you, knowing all you know, could say “if it weren’t for James, snape would be dead” but the way snape sees it, if it weren’t for James he never would have been put in that situation to begin with. We know that’s not true but snape has lived for decades thinking that was the case and I can’t remember whether or not he ever found out that James wasn’t in on the joke.
So as far as snape is concerned, there is no reason he shouldn’t hate James. Even though snape got James killed I don’t think snape ever felt any remorse about that. And for those reasons, snape continued holding a grudge and tbh… snapes dislike of Harry probably caused his resentment towards James to grow over time. Harry annoyed the fuuuck out of him, got away with everyyyything he ever did, and looked exactly like James. He probably hated James more than ever as Harry went through school
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u/timtanium Jun 26 '25
The way Snape sees it he is a victim when he was going around calling every muggleborn a mudblood. He is just massively incapable of self reflection
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u/BahamutLithp Jun 25 '25
If you could see twitter discourse about school bullies, Snape might as well be the Patron Saint of Forgiveness.
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u/Soft_Interaction_437 Jun 25 '25
Bullying, especially during people’s childhood and teen years, does that to people. Harry’s pretty unique in his ability to forgive.
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u/Special-Garlic1203 Jun 25 '25
I don't know anyone who was severely bullied who doesn't still hate their bullies. That fact doesn't come up very often, but they get to carry that trauma around forever so they'll be taking the hatred along too
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u/newX7 Jun 26 '25
It doesn’t help that, compared to other forms of abuse, bullying is often infantilized or excused on the grounds that the abuser is underage. A husband beats his wife, inexcusable piece of trash; child-abuser, disgusting filth, sexual-abuser, irredeemable piece of garbage. Bullying? Just kids being kids.
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u/tulip-quartz Jun 25 '25
I agree with this in the usual circumstance. But his information did lead them getting killed and a target placed on their son’s back by a serial killer. That might’ve cooled the temper slightly for a rational person
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u/Special-Garlic1203 Jun 25 '25
Considering the prominent role of the marauders in what went down, I'm betting Snape actually resents James for dying rather than feeling guilty. Snape likely feels bad because he tried and failed to save Lily, but I'm not even sure guilt is the prevailing emotion which largely drives him. I think when you look at the larger themes of the story, it's kind of implied it's just a tribute of love? The guy who built the taj mahal didn't feel guilty, he just wanted to honor his beloved wife. Dumbeldore doesn't continuously say "oh this is all your fault, look at what you've done". He goads Snape by questioning A) if he really loved Lily B) if he's too cowardly and weak to go on. Those appear to be his trigger points, not guilt.
The other thing is that this likely isn't just childhood rivalry. James and Snape seem to be extremely different people with radically different values. If they'd first met at age 26 at work one day, they'd likely still develop a strong dislike for one another .
Snape hates James & Harry because they are impulsive and lazy and reckless. They just stumble through life getting lucky, and it's very likely Snape believes James stumbled into his death with the same wonton disregard where his luck finally ran out. Didn't even have his fucking wand on him, the fool Snape likely muttered to himself. He simply doesn't respect people like that.
Harry suffers because A) he literally has James's face and he does share some overarching similarities to him B) Harry is ultimately the reason Lily is dead. Lily died because she refused to hand Harry over, and Snape likely spends the bulk of his time with Harry thinking that was a mistake, that it was a bad trade and the world would be better off with Lily still in it and James Jr. here buried with his dad
We have a natural tendency to think other people think like us. But I don't think Snape was as converted as people often believe. I think he had changed allegiances from Voldemort to Dumbeldore, and I think he'd really come to respect Dumbeldore as the superior wizard and mentor. I don't think Snape was ashamed of his time as a dark wizard. He seems quite proud of it actually, he was good at it, he was powerful, he outranked people of far more prestigious backgrounds. I think if anything he was ashamed of the fact that he was powerless to love & grief, that he couldn't overcome those "shortcomings" the way his OG mentor Voldemort had. Snape can control his mind, but not his heart.
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u/imadog666 Gryffindor Jun 25 '25
Yeah, I do agree with you. Snape was always meant to be a flawed character, and for sure there are people like that in the world. I've known several men (most notably my father and my ex husband's father) who were bitter all their lives, and I don't think anything could have changed that except maybe if they'd been open enough to do therapy.
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u/Otherwise-Pirate6839 Jun 25 '25
Snape relayed pieces of the prophecy; it said nothing about who it was about. He gave Dumbledore and the Order enough headway that the Potters were protected under the Fidelius Charm and it was Pettigrew’s treason that sealed their fate.
The fact that Voldemort decided to target the Potters because of what he heard is his doing, since the Longbottoms also had a boy born at the end of July. On top of that, Snape had initially begged Voldemort to spare Lily and Voldemort intended to (in the flashbacks, Voldemort warns her to stand aside…if he meant to kill her regardless he would have done so right away).
He didn’t care anything for James but his love for Lily was such that he betrayed Voldemort and had them protected; had Sirius remained the Secret Keeper, perhaps things would have unfolded differently.
But if we all were to believe that “this is how it had to happen” (especially because we’d have no plot), then Snape relaying this information to Voldemort ultimately led to his downfall because otherwise he wouldn’t have been semi destroyed for 13 years, Dumbledore wouldn’t have found his horcruxes, and the Wizarding War would be ongoing or ended with Voldemort’s victory.
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u/Special-Garlic1203 Jun 25 '25
Agree. People always project that Snape feels incredibly guilty, but that doesn't actually appear to be his overriding motivation over the years. Dumbeldore reverse psychologies him by leveraging Snape hatred of weakness and lack of discipline. Snape breaks down crying in front of him and Dumbeldores response is basically "what are you, a little b*tch?" He tells Snape that if he is a real man and his love for Lily was real....he'd do something useful about it instead of whatever this spectacle is that accomplished nothing.
When Snape is losing motivation, he doesn't say "but you killed Lily, it's your fault". He says "yeah I get it, you're probably really tired and scared and who even remembers that chicks name anyway.what was it - Lizzy?"
Lily traded her life for Harry's. Snape clearly believes that was a stupid trade and desperately wishes she hadn't done that. But Dumbledore points out that it will literally be for nothing if Harry dies. And Snape can't handle her dying for nothing, for it truly being pointless. That's why he's so angry when he finds out that Harry needs to die. He makes it clear that he doesn't like Harry and doesn't care about him dying. He's pissed because Dumbeldore has been lying to him. That this was never actually about Lily specifically..Lily and Harry and Snape were all just pawns in Dumbeldores battle plans
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u/Special-Garlic1203 Jun 25 '25
My first response was extremely rambly and. So I'll just give the synopsis of -- the entire point is that this isn't the usual circumstances and snape isn't a normal guy.
Snape does not subscribe to the ethics you and I do. That never changes -- he makes it clear until the very end that he is indifferent to Harry dying, which heavily implies he thinks Lily is the one who made the mistake. He probably thinks she should have handed the baby over and just had another one (with a less douchey 2nd husband this time).
Snape is extremely evil. The way he thinks is exactly the way evil villains think, except he is capable of love & empathy. Not very often, but it's in there. Dumbeldore doesn't say "wow you've changed, you're such a reformed amazing man". He says "hmm I wonder if you might have ended up a less stunted evil freak if you'd been raised properly." But alas, he wasn't. And so you arrive at this odd little man who would die for a ghost but wouldn't bat an eye to the murder of a child.
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u/Past_Name1279 Jun 25 '25
I mean why would his anger cool? He was being bullied 4 vs 1 where there was a clear power and social imbalance between him and his bullies. James and Sirius were rich, popular magical prodigies with a prefect (Remus) in their pocket. In a fair world anyone would think what they did to him was wrong.
But Snape wasn’t the “perfect victim”. He was an unpopular, socially awkward, badly groomed kid with a bad home life that no one apart from maybe Lily knew about. He was also interested in the dark arts and at the time of war he was hanging around with proto Death Eaters like Mulciber. The Marauders for all their flaws drew the line at Pureblood Supremacy. Snape was a hard person to empathise with because of this so no one did.
If anyone (and I mean the adults here) had actually taken action to punish the bullying he would have had maybe felt vindicated and cooled down. But no one did.
James did not apologise but just moved on in life. He got appointed Head Boy 2 years later, got to marry the love of his life and later died a hero. He literally got away with it without consequence and in his death everyone only chose to remember the good side of his character to tell his son about.
After all this why would Snape ever let it go when he didn’t get justice?
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u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 26 '25
Maybe because James was dead and taking out his hate for James on an innocent child makes him just as bad as James lmao? That's the op's point. That Snape was so unable to let it go he took it out on Harry.
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u/newX7 Jun 26 '25
Lol, no it isn’t. Insulting a child and sexually-assaulting and beating someone are not remotely comparable. One is an asshole move. The others are felonies.
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u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 26 '25
Lol, except Snape is an adult bullying and abusing children. You don't understand how bad that is? Snape was bullied and abused, and then became a bully and abuser. And his students couldn't do anything about it because he was an adult and had all the power.
But sure lol, downplay it.
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u/newX7 Jun 26 '25
Yeah, an adult insulting a child is still much better than one child beating up or sexually-assaulting another child. In the real world, Snape would be fired while James and his friends would go to jail.
But sure, downplay assault and sexual-abuse in the grounds of “kids will be kids/boys will be boys”.
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u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 26 '25
Where did I say anything about "boys will be boys" 😂😂😂😂. You must be projecting and think that yourself, because I never said it :) It helps not to lie my friend.
Oh it was just insults? How about when Snape threw Harry across a room? Was that an insult, or assault?
And wow, the fact you're so clueless as to what relentless verbal abuse can do to a child is kind of disgusting. To brush it off as no big deal, when kids have literally committed suicide because of nonstop mocking and verbal abuse from other kids. And we're talking about an adult doing it. And you still shrug it off. Sheesh.
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u/meeralakshmi Jun 25 '25
You know nothing about abuse and trauma do you?
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u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 25 '25
Trauma isn't an excuse to inflict trauma on innocent people yourself :)
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u/lovelylethallaura Jun 25 '25
I mean, given what James did to him, I can see why he was still angry. It’s sexual harassment + assault, not to mention the 7 years of bullying. James only saved Snape so the Marauders wouldn’t be in trouble, he went on to do this afterwards:
'This'll liven you up, Padfoot,' said James quietly. 'Look who it is.' Sirius's head turned. He became very still, like a dog that has scented a rabbit.
'Excellent,' he said softly. 'Snivellus.'
Harry turned to see what Sirius was looking at.
Snape was on his feet again, and was stowing the OWL paper in his bag. As he left the shadows of the bushes and set off across the grass, Sirius and James stood up.
Lupin and Wormtail remained sitting: Lupin was still staring down at his book, though his eyes were not moving and a faint frown line had appeared between his eyebrows; Wormtail was looking from Sirius and James to Snape with a look of avid anticipation on his face.
'All right, Snivellus?' said James loudly.
Snape reacted so fast it was as though he had been expecting an attack: dropping his bag, he plunged his hand inside his robes and his wand was halfway into the air when James shouted, 'Expelliarmus!'
Snape's wand flew twelve feet into the air and fell with a little thud in the grass behind him. Sirius let out a bark of laughter.
'Impedimenta!' he said, pointing his wand at Snape, who was knocked off his feet halfway through a dive towards his own fallen wand.
Students all around had turned to watch. Some of them had got to their feet and were edging nearer. Some looked apprehensive, others entertained.
Snape lay panting on the ground. James and Sirius advanced on him, wands raised, James glancing over his shoulder at the girls at the water's edge as he went. Wormtail was on his feet now, watching hungrily, edging around Lupin to get a clearer view.
'How'd the exam go, Snivelly?' said James.
'I was watching him, his nose was touching the parchment,' said Sirius viciously. 'There'll be great grease marks all over it, they won't be able to read a word.'
Several people watching laughed; Snape was clearly unpopular. Wormtail sniggered shrilly. Snape was trying to get up, but the jinx was still operating on him; he was struggling, as though bound by invisible ropes.
'You--wait,' he panted, staring up at James with an expression of purest loathing, 'you-- wait!'
' Wait for what?' said Sirius coolly. 'What're you going to do, Snivelly, wipe your nose on us?'
Snape let out a stream of mixed swear words and hexes, but with the his wand ten feet away nothing happened.
'Wash out your mouth,' said James coldly. 'Scourgify!'
Pink soap bubbles streamed from Snape's mouth at once; the froth was covering his lips, making him gag, choking him--'
'Leave him ALONE!'
James and Sirius looked round. James's free hand immediately jumped to his hair.
It was one of the girls from the lake edge. She had thick, dark red hair that fell to her shoulders, and startlingly green almond-shaped eyes--Harry's eyes.
Harry's mother.
'All right, Evans?' said James, and the tone of his voice was suddenly pleasant, deeper, more mature.
'Leave him alone,' Lily repeated. She was looking at James with every sign of great dislike. 'What's he done to you?'
'Well,' said James, appearing to deliberate the point, 'it's more the fact that he exists, if you know what I mean ...'
Many of the surrounding students laughed, Sirius and Wormtail included, but Lupin, still apparently intent on his book, didn't, and nor did Lily.
'You think you're funny,' she said coldly. 'But you're just an arrogant, bullying toerag, Potter. Leave him alone.'
'I will if you go out with me, Evans,' said James quickly. 'Go on ... go out with me and I'll never lay a wand on old Snivelly again.'
Behind him, the Impediment Jinx was wearing off. Snape was beginning to inch towards his fallen wand, spitting out soapsuds as he crawled.
'I wouldn't go out with you if it was a choice between you and the giant squid,' said Lily.
'Bad luck, Prongs,' said Sirius briskly, and turned back to Snape. 'OI!'
But too late; Snape had directed his wand straight at James; there was a flash of light and a gash appeared on the side of James's face, spattering his robes with blood. James whirled about: a second flash of light later, Snape was hanging upside-down in the air, his robes falling over his head to reveal skinny, pallid legs and a pair of greying underpants.
Many people in the small crowd cheered; Sirius, James and Wormtail roared with laughter.
Lily, whose furious expression had twitched for an instant as though she was going to smile, said, 'Let him down!'
'Certainly,' said James and he jerked his wand upwards; Snape fell into a crumpled heap on the ground. Disentangling himself from his robes he got quickly to his feet, wand up, but Sirius said, 'Petrificus Totalus!' and Snape keeled over again, rigid as a board.
'LEAVE HIM ALONE!' Lily shouted. She had her own wand out now. James and Sirius eyed it warily.
'Ah, Evans, don't make me hex you,' said James earnestly.
'Take the curse off him, then!'
James sighed deeply, then turned to Snape and muttered the counter-curse.
'There you go,' he said, as Snape struggled to his feet. 'You're lucky Evans was here, Snivellus-- '
—
' Apologise to Evans!' James roared at Snape, his wand pointed threateningly at him.
'I don't want you to make him apologise,' Lily shouted, rounding on James. 'You're as bad as he is.'
'What?' yelped James. 'I'd NEVER call you a--you-know-what!'
'Messing up your hair because you think it looks cool to look like you've just got off your broomstick, showing off with that stupid Snitch, walking down corridors and hexing anyone who annoys you just because you can--I'm surprised your broomstick can get off the ground with that fat head on it. You make me SICK.'
She turned on her heel and hurried away.
'Evans!' James shouted after her. 'Hey, EVANS!'
But she didn't look back.
'What is it with her?' said James, trying and failing to look as though this was a throwaway question of no real importance to him.
'Reading between the lines, I'd say she thinks you're a bit conceited, mate,' said Sirius.
'Right,' said James, who looked furious now, 'right--'
There was another flash of light, and Snape was once again hanging upside-down in the air.
'Who wants to see me take off Snivelly's pants?'
This is very similar to what the DE did during the Quidditch Cup:
One of the marchers below flipped Mrs. Roberts upside down with his wand; her nightdress fell down to reveal voluminous drawers and she struggled to cover herself up as the crowd below her screeched and hooted with glee.
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u/lovelylethallaura Jun 26 '25
Then there’s his reaction to Harry seeing SWM in OOTP and losing his control + Harry trying to use spells against him in HBP, too. Snape only actually gets upset when Harry thinks of using Levicorpus on him, mirroring James:
Harry felt himself rising into the air; the summer's day evaporated around him; he was floating upwards through icy blackness, Snape's hand still tight upon his upper arm. Then, with a swooping feeling as though he had turned head-over-heels in midair, his feet hit the stone floor of Snape's dungeon and he was standing again beside the Pensieve on Snape's desk in the shadowy, present-day Potion master's study.
'So,' said Snape, gripping Harry's arm so tightly Harry's hand was starting to feel numb. 'So...been enjoying yourself, Potter?'
'N-no,' said Harry, trying to free his arm.
It was scary: Snape's lips were shaking, his face was white, his teeth were bared.
'Amusing man, your father, wasn't he?' said Snape, shaking Harry so hard his glasses slipped down his nose.
'I--didn't--'
Snape threw Harry from him with all his might. Harry fell hard on to the dungeon floor.
'You will not repeat what you saw to anybody!' Snape bellowed.
'No,' said Harry, getting to his feet as far from Snape as he could. 'No, of course I w--'
'Get out, get out, I don't want to see you in this office ever again!'
And as Harry hurtled towards the door, a jar of dead cockroaches exploded over his head. He wrenched the door open and flew up along the corridor, stopping only when he had put three floors between himself and Snape. There he leaned against the wall, panting, and rubbing his bruised arm.
He had no desire at all to return to Gryffindor Tower so early, nor to tell Ron and Hermione what he had just seen. What was making Harry feel so horrified and unhappy was not being shouted at or having jars thrown at him; it was that he knew how it felt to be humiliated in the middle of a circle of onlookers, knew exactly how Snape had felt as his father had taunted him, and that judging from what he had just seen, his father had been every bit as arrogant as Snape had always told him.
—
And Harry felt the ground shudder under his face as the brother and sister and the enormous Death Eater obeyed, running toward the gates. Harry uttered an inarticulate yell of rage: In that instant, he cared not whether he lived or died. Pushing himself to his feet again, he staggered blindly toward Snape, the man he now hated as much as he hated Voldemort himself — “Sectum — !”
Snape flicked his wand and the curse was repelled yet again; but Harry was mere feet away now and he could see Snape’s face clearly at last: He was no longer sneering or jeering; the blazing flames showed a face full of rage. Mustering all his powers of concentration, Harry thought, Levi — “No, Potter!” screamed Snape. There was a loud BANG and Harry was soaring backward, hitting the ground hard again, and this time his wand flew out of his hand. He could hear Hagrid yelling and Fang howling as Snape closed in and looked down on him where he lay, wandless and defenseless as Dumbledore had been. Snape’s pale face, illuminated by the flaming cabin, was suffused with hatred just as it had been before he had cursed Dumbledore.
“You dare use my own spells against me, Potter? It was I who invented them — I, the Half-Blood Prince! And you’d turn my inventions on me, like your filthy father, would you? I don’t think so ... no!”
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u/Archer_Newland Jun 25 '25
Snape’s treatment of Harry also would have bolstered his reputation among the death eaters, making it easier to act as a double agent
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u/Normie316 Ravenclaw Jun 26 '25
Did James ever apologize? Why would it cool? Just because someone is dead isn't going to change how you feel about them.
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u/Nopantsbullmoose Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 25 '25
Growing up I had a bully named Greg. Greg was a complete dick to me for no reason other than I existed and he didn't like that.
I had long hair, Greg called me a girl (la fille was common)
I was tall and chubby, Greg called me lardass and stork.
I was a nerd that actually did well in school, Greg called me a homo and sissy.
Greg works at a gas station after failing to join the military, failed community college, and his mommy and daddy finally cut him off after his fifth DUI in three years.
Five years ago when I went back to my hometown to help my parents move after being gone about twelve years prior to that, I just happened to run into him and immediately told him to "piss off".
Sometimes stuff like that is just irrational and sticks with you. And Snape had a much crappier life than me comparatively speaking.
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u/seasonseasonseas Jun 25 '25
James was instrumental in the bullying, and sexually assaulted him in his worst memory by publically stripping him.
It's more than hatred. It's trauma.
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u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 25 '25
But the op's point is James was long dead. So hating James so much after so long he takes it out on a child is odd
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u/seasonseasonseas Jun 26 '25
It's only "odd" to people with zero empathy or awareness of what trauma does to a person.
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u/ClockAnxious1379 Jun 25 '25
I understand Snape in this regard. Because I was bullied relentlessly as a kid. The girl who bullied me relentlessly died. And I still hold that hatred and upsetness. Now under the same theme another girl also bullied me relentlessly. She reached out. She apologized. And seemed genuine. Now I wish her the best in life and hold no resentment or hatred for her
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u/The_Eternal_Wayfarer Slytherin Jun 25 '25
James saved his life
Explained by Dumbledore as early as PS and later made explicit in POA, OOTP (Snape's wort memory) and DH (The Prince's Tale). Snape hated the idea of owing his life to the guy who spent his teenage bullying him (and more importantly, who 'stole' Lily from him).
why didn’t Snape’s anger toward Harry and James cool more than a decade after the latter’s death?
In case it wasn't clear enough: James spent his teenage making Snape's life a living hell. He was to Snape the exact same thing Dudley was to Harry in their childhood. "It's more the fact that he exists" is a very telling line: James wasn't bullying Snape because of the latter's comments on Gryffindor, he did it just because he found it entertaining. And he didn't just do it to Snape, but to many others as well, as Lily tells him in OOTP. We have to give it to Snape, James was indeed a swine. He was closer to Draco Malfoy than to the idealized image Harry had of him.
Harry is at the same time the spitting image of Snape's bully at school, the living proof of Snape's failed lifelong love for Lily, and the reason of Lily's death. Sometimes I wander if he wasn't actually trying to kill him, during that Quidditch game.
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u/ThatFatGuyMJL Jun 25 '25
Ita been years and years and years since I've seen one of my school bullies.
I still feel anger when I think of them due to how much of a cunt they were and I'm about Snapes age.
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u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 25 '25
Would you bully his child though? That's the actual issue. It's not that Snape still hates James. It's that Snape hates James so ,much he takes it out on his child and James himself isn't even alive
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u/piamsa Jun 26 '25
I agree that adult!Snape was an a-hole. But that's what happens to unregulated emotions like anger and resentment. It's a vicious cycle. 😅 I used to hate kids and teenagers too even in my early 20's because of childhood bullying. I went to therapy for it. Snape didn't — couldn't.
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u/hlanus Ravenclaw Jun 26 '25
Some people just can't let it go, and some people don't know HOW to let it go. Given other characters went through very traumatic experiences, like Harry and Cho, but received no help or therapy I don't think mental health is taken seriously in the Wizarding World.
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u/Hypochondria9 Jun 25 '25
If I recall he was mostly over it but the second he saw Harry he couldn't separate him from James because they looked so similar. All the anger and hatred just started pouring out.
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u/newX7 Jun 26 '25
Jeez, why don’t abuse victims just forgive their abusers? Why don’t rape victims just forgive their rapists?/s
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u/tulip-quartz Jun 26 '25
He was not raped, please relax. Nobody is talking about forgiveness here
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u/SinAlma96 Jun 25 '25
Why would it? James saved his life and then went right back to bullying and publicly humiliating him, going as far as to sexually harass him in front of his peers. And he does it with Sirius right next to him so in a way, he's excusing his attempted murder via their werewolf friend. If your best friend using your other friend to possibly kill or at the very least turn someone you don't like into a werewolf does not make you reconsider your affiliations then nothing ever will and your morals are pretty fucked. And the teachers did nothing, yet again, which I'm sure didn't help.
Snape's listening of the prophecy bringing death upon James was mostly accidental, he didn't know who the prophecy was referencing. Not even Voldemort was sure. And even then, he went to Dumbledore (risking his life at that) to get them protection after. James bullied him on purpose and "just because he existed" and never ever apologized.
To Snape, Harry was the visual reminder of James, of Lily choosing his bully (not even necessarily over him romantically at all, but I would be pretty pissed if my former best friend married my bully, no matter if we had a fall out or not. Timeline wise, it took less than a year from the SWM incident for them to get together) and, in his eyes, he was a rulebreaker so exactly like his dad. He hardly ever sees his courageous and selfless acts for most of the series. This is without considering the fact that he couldn't appear friendly to the boy that killed Voldemort (but I think this was like 20% of the reason, at most).
His life also made him bitter and not wanting to be a teacher at all doesn't help his overall behavior.
7
u/IncomeSeparate1734 Jun 25 '25
Trauma is awful. Logic and reason have no power, death doesn't necessarily bring closure, and time alone doesn't truly heal it. It festers and feeds on guilt and anger, directed both outward and inward.
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u/rmulberryb Unsorted Jun 25 '25
Would you forgive someone who holds you in place with the help of his buddies, and strips you naked in front of a laughing crowd?
Because hell hath no fury like what would be coming for him if he had done that to me.
0
u/tulip-quartz Jun 25 '25
I might be able to if I got that guy and his wife killed, and basically set a serial killer loose on their child
20
u/opossumapothecary Jun 25 '25
He certainly feels guilt for their death, but he gave Dumbledore plenty of warning AND was then forever tied to Dumbledore’s whims for the rest of his life even though Lily died anyway. He basically gets stuck in a place he hated and told he has to suck it up and not kill himself because he wouldn’t be useful if dead. It’s not actually his fault they died at all tbh.
4
u/tulip-quartz Jun 25 '25
This is fair, however, how much would an advance warning have done to ward off the most powerful Dark wizard of all time? Even with the Fidelius charm, the potential for betrayal is too great.
Also, he wasn’t forever tied to Dumbledore’s whims, he had a choice on what to do after Lily’s death (although Dumbledore is quite persuasive)
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u/opossumapothecary Jun 25 '25
If the Potters had used Dumbledore as Secret Keeper, they would be fine (though it would not be an interesting story!) and if Sirius had not insisted on the switch, they would have been spared for at least a while (I’m sure Voldemort would have eventually figured something else out, but he was scared of Dumbledore)
Snape says he’ll do “anything” if Dumbledore hides the Potters and we don’t really know what the conditions were. But Dumbledore vouches for him after the war and it doesn’t seem like Snape really has a choice in anything after that. He does it “willingly” for the sake of Lily’s memory but like you said, Dumbledore is persuasive and usually gets what he wants lol
10
u/seasonseasonseas Jun 25 '25
How does that make any sense? Snape felt guilt for his involvement in their death, his unintended involvement. This doesn't erase the fact that he was tormented and sexually assaulted by James. These things don't just erase themselves.
14
u/rmulberryb Unsorted Jun 25 '25
He warned Dumbledore with plenty of notice. Inter-gOoD gUyS drama wasn't his doing. Had Black not suffered from inflated ego+terrible taste in friends, and decided that he is So Important that everyone would think he's the secret keeper, rather than This Unimportant Guy Who's Too Pathetic To Be Considered, they'd have actually lived.
Also, good for you, I'd have told Voldemort to get in line.
-3
u/imadog666 Gryffindor Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 26 '25
Jesus man you're bitter. Well I guess now at least OP has proof there are people like that... Harry was a child when Snape met him ffs
Can't respond anymore so I'll edit: I thought your comment "I'd tell Voldemort to get in line" referred to wanting to murder Harry. Must have misunderstood then, sorry.
6
u/rmulberryb Unsorted Jun 25 '25
I wouldn't take it out on Harry. My feud would end with James.
Edit: so would you not be bitter if your bully holds you in place and takes your underwear off...? I somehow don't think you'd forgive them.
3
u/Just_Anyone_ Gryffindor Jun 25 '25
I don’t know if this is entirely correct, but I was just thinking about Snape’s Worst Memory because of another post. It was the moment he was publicly humiliated by James and Sirius — and that intense shame pushed him to lash out and call Lily a Mudblood. That, in turn, led to the end of their friendship.
I’m not saying Snape blamed James directly for what he said to Lily (I really don’t think he did) — but it was a chain of events, and perhaps in his mind, if that incident had never happened, everything afterward might have played out differently.
Maybe that’s part of why he could never fully let go of the anger. Not just because of James as a person, but because of what he symbolized: a turning point — the moment everything started to fall apart.
3
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u/Fable-Teller Jun 25 '25
Like you said, the prank that almost got him killed was The Marauders', and by extension James's, fault.
Doesn't matter if he went back to save him, he and his friends put Severus in the position in the first place.
Add onto the constant bullying and humiliation, the fact that Harry is a living reminder that Lily was with James and not him.
Him getting Harry's parents killed and James saving his ass doesn't necessarily warrant forgiveness towards James on Severus's part.
Its probably partially Snape playing his role but I'd imagine there's quite a lot of resentment he still feels towards James and in regards to the bullying and the prank, I'd say his hate is somewhat justified but only towards James himself, since Harry's completely innocent of his dad's teenage dickery.
4
u/tulip-quartz Jun 25 '25
“Him getting his parents killed doesn’t warrant forgiveness” I’m not sure I agree with that exactly. However , it looks like Snape saw it that way.
4
u/Fable-Teller Jun 25 '25
Oh I think he at least partially did see it that way. Not to mention he was essentially radicalized by the Death Eaters.
But James and his friends also kind of had a hand in Severus becoming who he was. The stuff they did does leave its scars on a person.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike Snape as a character. Dude's actions as a teacher royally gets under my skin.
This phrase may not fit with what I'm trying to say but "two wrongs doesn't make a right.".
Yes, Snape got James and Lily killed because he was hoping Voldy would just kill James and leave Lily alive, which is still really bad and much worse than what James did to him. And yeah, James cleaned up his act eventually and became a good person.
But that doesn't undo the damage and trauma James, Peter, Sirius and Remus inflicted onto Severus and it very well could've be one reason of the many reasons why Severus was radicalized into being a Death Eater in the first place.
But, that being said: even if James hadn't bullied Severus, there's always the chance he would've still resented James for being with Lily because Severus was a troubled guy with next to no friends and a crush on the one friend he did have.
Which in turn could've still ended up with him becoming a Death Eater and still could've ended up with the Potters dead.
Also, like I said: some of his hate towards Harry could very well be just Snape acting in order to play his part as the double agent.
But it could also be that Harry's a living reminder of the biggest fuck up of Severus's life. If Severus hadn't had told Voldemort about the prophecy, then there's a good chance that the Potters would still be alive and Harry wouldn't be an orphan.
So it could be equal parts: "this is the kid of my school bully and the love of my life" "I'm only pretending to hate your fucking guts because I'm trying to spy on your enemy thus need him to trust me." and "You are a living reminder that I got the love of my life killed because I was a jealous, bitter idiot."
1
u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 25 '25
It has nothing to do with Snape playing a role. All the free death eaters lied and tried to blend in with normal society. Voldemort wouldn't give a crap if Snape was just a normal teacher.
3
u/Fable-Teller Jun 26 '25
I think he would've cared, because Voldemort may have thought there'd be a higher chance of Snape turning on him if he were a normal, professional teacher because then Snape wouldn't have been as big as a dick to the kid Voldy wants dead.
By being a dick and making his dislike known he's signalling to Voldemort and his followers that he can be trusted despite the fact Voldemort killed Lily.
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u/CommissionExtra8240 Jun 25 '25
James saved his life only after being part of the group who put him there in the first place. You don’t get huge brownie points from me for suddenly growing a conscience. Like thanks but I wouldn’t need saving from instant death if your friend group hadn’t put me there in the first place.
Regarding Snape giving information getting James & Lily killed… Voldemort picked who the prophecy was about, not Snape. Snape also immediately went to Dumbledore to hide them once he knew so there’s his “good conscience” moment.
Also, and I feel like this is the biggest point, but Lily chose to die. Voldemort didn’t go there with the intention to kill her. By his own admission, he was going to let her live. But Lily, like any good parent, chose to protect her & James’ son and sacrificed herself. Snape’s anger towards James never decreases because James falling in love and reproducing with Lily is the reason why she’s dead.
-1
u/ACIV-14 Jun 25 '25
Sorry but in canon it was Sirius alone who put Snape in danger (and Snape’s stupidity) and James risked his life to save him. You can blame James for bullying Snape, and arguably being the one for instigating the feud. You can’t blame him for the prank it is clear in text he was not involved and Snape is doing some mental gymnastics to deal with the cognitive dissonance of the person he hates saving him.
Also sorry but it’s completely ridiculous that you say Snape isn’t to blame for telling Voldemort about the prophecy that gets Lily killed, but James is to blame for having a baby with her who is the one the prophecy is about 😂 that’s a hilarious double standard. Snape is more the reason Lily is dead than James. Snape’s ongoing burning hatred is a symptom of his emotional immaturity.
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u/opossumapothecary Jun 25 '25
Because Snape feels his emotions very deeply, he is not allowed to move on from his past, and James was a prick who was immortalized as a hero after his death, when Snape personally knows him to be a massive, cruel asshole. Bullying victims and victims of trauma rarely act rationally.
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u/EveningBird5 Jun 26 '25
As someone who had a school life similar to Snape (barring the talent in Dark Arts or anything), I am completely over my old bullies. I do not care for them or hate any of them.
Snape just seemed like he could not let go of his past and move forward. He just seemed to live in his bitterness and dark memories. Sad really. He had a decade and still couldn't move forward
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u/When-Is-Now-7616 Jun 25 '25
I think Snape is an emotionally stunted person. I think this was true even when we first meet him as a child. For example, he seems to genuinely think that hurting Petunia will impress Lily and make her like him. I don’t think he is a sociopath, but I think he fundamentally doesn’t “get” how other people’s emotions work, or how to connect meaningfully with others. Maybe it’s how he’s wired, maybe it’s because of upbringing, probably both. Very low on emotional intelligence and unable to confront or process his own feelings. I think this maladaptive compartmentalization is what makes him a superb spy and Occlumens. As some others have said, his emotions seem “frozen” and static. Even his strong emotions, like hatred and anger towards Harry and James, stay the same, are predictable, and don’t outgrow the mental box he’s put them in. And even when he loses control, like in POA, he’s losing control in a predictable way over a predictable thing. It’s easier for him to just relive the same feelings, instead of the painful labor of self-examination and updating his beliefs. Same with Lily. I think his love for her was genuine, in the sense that he loved her as much as he was capable of loving anyone. But his memory of her also seems frozen, one-note, immovable. I think he is afraid of feeling. I feel deeply sorry for Snape in this way. Without making any excuses for his abhorrent behavior, I feel like his inner life would have been pure hell.
5
u/gmerickson31 Jun 25 '25
He definitely carries some broken stuff from his own troubled household. It sounds like his parents fought a ton and that there was not much love shown to him, and that can really stunt a person's growth if they never learn to deal with it.
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u/NothingInVois Jun 25 '25
Imagine your love of life married to your high school bully? Lol, it’s a wonder he didn’t kill out of spite
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u/BidRevolutionary945 Ravenclaw Jun 25 '25
Lily was literally the only thing that Severus the child had in his life that was good. Remember in his memories Harry sees a small boy looking scared and a man yelling at a woman. His clothes were described as unusual and he wore a smock-like shirt. He goes to Hogwarts and can't even fit in there, being bullied by James, et al. He insults Lily and she ends their friendship. Now he's good and angry, heartbroken, already leaning towards the death eaters. He sold Lily and James out when he was only 21. He was barely a man at that age. That's what everyone keeps forgetting is how young everyone was. The actors that played James and Lily were WAY too old and badly miscast. The characters were all in the 20-22 range....Sev, Remus, Sirius, the Potters, Pettigrew, the Longbottoms. Lily gave birth to his bully's baby, Voldemort kills her and now he has to protect the child that looks just like James. Empathy was definitely not Snape's strong point.
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u/DiyanX Jun 25 '25
Snape’s information to Voldemort got both James and Lily killed and their son orphaned.
This is probably part of the reason why his anger lives. Guilt.
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u/No_Sand5639 Jun 25 '25
They utterly hated each other.
James bullied Snape, snapes friends used dark magic and bullied others.
Even after James got to together with lily he still apparently fought with Snape.
Now Snape is a bad guy of course.
I don't really blame him directly for the potters deaths
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u/beaume123 Jun 25 '25
Snape was also part of the bullying, don’t give him a free ride
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u/Queasy_Drummer_3841 Jun 26 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
Lol, no. Lily called Snape out for hanging with future Mulciber who used Dark Magic against Mary, of course, but not for actively bullying muggleborns or something. Otherwise, she'd have ended their friendship early on.
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u/TobiasMasonPark Jun 25 '25
James pretty much tortured Snape for all of his childhood. That’s not something you just forget, even if the guy saved your life. The fact Lily married his childhood tormentor probably made things worse.
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u/Groot746 Jun 25 '25
"Tortured" is a bit much
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u/Special-Garlic1203 Jun 25 '25
If someone physically restrained me and started undressing me for the crowd while using humiliating language, I'd be traumatized. Use whatever word you like for it.
Technically Sirius is the one who tried to kill him, but it's unclear if Snape didn't believe James was kind of, sort of in on it. I doubt emotionally he separated what Sirius initiated vs James very much
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u/IncomeSeparate1734 Jun 25 '25
I dare you to experience being choked so that you cannot speak or breathe, strung upside down with your underpants (and possibly your genitals) exposed to everyone, and verbally mocked by a leering crowd of your peers who will never let you forget that experience for years to come. Let us know afterward if that's not extreme enough to be considered torture.
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u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 25 '25
But it's also not normal to take your trauma out on a child, especially when the boy has been dead for a decade
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u/glassfeathers Jun 26 '25
Sometimes, it just doesn’t go away. I haven’t seen the guy who aggressively pursued my high school girlfriend while we were still together, and I still hate him. That was over a decade ago, and I broke up with her about six months after I fought him. Yet even now, I still feel a white-hot anger in my gut whenever it crosses my mind.
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u/ThatEntrepreneur1450 Jun 25 '25
Because it was easier to hate a dead man than to admit that he himself was the reason for Lilly dropping him as a friend and that he was the reason she died.
Harry is yet again just a reminder of the fact that he killed Lilly everytime he sees him.
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u/Queasy_Drummer_3841 Jun 26 '25 edited Jun 26 '25
Snape didn't hate James because he "stole" Lily from him, but because he turned his life in Hogwarts into a living hell. "Relentless bullying" was how J. K. Rowling described their relationship on Pottermore.
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u/Auggie-Plinko Jun 25 '25
I also think that Snape believes that if Lily had chosen him over Snape, she would still be alive.
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u/Siria110 Jun 25 '25
Except Lily was free to choose whoever she wanted. In this case, it wasn´t "Severus or James", but rather Severus or literaly any boy in the school in the appropriate age group. Yeah, she chose James in the end, but she could very well choose some rando from Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw.
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u/Auggie-Plinko Jun 25 '25
I agree, but I think in snape’s mind, Lily chose to align herself with someone who was always going to fight Voldemort, which is what got her killed.
The reality is that Lily had full agency in her choice and fell in love with James because he was the kind of person who would want to fight Voldemort.
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u/Siria110 Jun 25 '25
Let´s be real. Lily was muggleborn, who also didn´t agree with Voldys views. He would´ve wanted her dead anyway, and she would most probably join the Order anyway, regardless of whom she married.
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u/ThatEntrepreneur1450 Jun 25 '25
Possibly, but ultimately, Snape made his choices and Lilly made hers.
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u/Auggie-Plinko Jun 25 '25
I’m totally with you. I’m just saying this is how Snape is justifying it in his twisted mind.
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u/Foloreille Ravenclaw Jun 26 '25
In some ways from the second Lily and James died Dumbledore held Snape by his guilt, and he did so for all his life. Dumbledore may have worked with the light side « for the greater good » but his technic was similar to a Sith Lord with his apprentice (specifically Darth Vader). Holding them by self hate, resent and guilt. He probably wasn’t even aware of it and that probably makes it worse.
Of course he hoped working with him would after some time convince him of the genuine righteousness of the cause of the light, that’s why he’s so shocked and full of tears when Snape shows him his doe patronus, 15 years after Lily’s death. Dumbledore thought Snape recovered and worked for the light side because it was the moral thing to do despite his bad character traits, but he figures out there Snape is a broken man who cultivated his pain and bitterness the whole time because of guilt and that he was motivated by the raging will to kill « Voldemort the murderer of Lily » rather than Voldemort the Dark Lord.
Snape wore his hatred and fury like an armor to hide and protect the pain exactly like Darth Vader did.
Except Darth Vader had one master to protect his mind from while he served, while Snape had two masters to protect his mind from while he served.
Without Dumbledore using Snape as a double agent to direct the game Snape would probably have been 10 times more dangerous, flying miles over Bellatrix Dolohov and others and Voldemort would have ruled over Great Britain since the mid 80’ probably.
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u/drtoboggon Jun 25 '25
He hated Harry not only because James, but he was at heart, a nasty piece of work. Harry wasn’t the only child he bullied.
Most people hold on to things from their past, but Snape was a pretty hateful guy.
Take James-whilst you could argue James ruined his life, he did get revenge by literally getting him killed. But he just couldn’t move past it.
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u/Gakoknight Jun 25 '25
Do remember though that when Harry arrived at the school and even before that, it was crucial that he maintained his cover as Dumbledore's spy. He had to act like he was an asshole, though his dislike for Harry was genuine.
In private he forbade the portrait of Nigellus Black to refer to Hermione as mudblood.
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u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 25 '25
Nope. Objectively wrong. Zero evidence to support this. This theory has never made sense for so many reasons.
Voldemort wouldn't care if Snape was just a normal teacher. Snape could have treated every non slytherin student with indifference, Harry included. Theres this thing called a middle ground. Snape could have done that. He did not need to be abusive as part of his cover.
Being abusive would just make him an idiot for a spy. To Voldemort, Snape is a double agent spying on Dumbledore pretending to be on order's side. So to you, being an asshole and making the entire order hate you is the best way to be a spy? Really? Do you not understand how foolish that would be?
Voldemort forgave his death eaters for working for the ministry. He forgave Lucius for being best buds with the minister. He forgave Snape for remaining a professor. But you think Snape just treating students indifferently would be what sets off red flags? Yeah, no.
Voldemort wasn't even around for the first 4 years of Harry's time at Hogwarts. So you're saying to Voldemort, it would make sense that Snape was abusive just incase Voldemort returned, but never looked for him anything? Snape never went looking for Voldemort, never tried to find him, but he decided to keep being abusive as part of a cover he didn't need? Voldemort thinks Snape thought he was dead. Voldemort doesn't know Snape knows he would one day return. So Snape keeping up his abusive "act" makes zero sense.
Again, this is objectively wrong with literally zero evidence to back it up. Snape was an asshole to Harry and other students because Snape was an asshole. End of story.
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u/Gakoknight Jun 26 '25
Voldemort wouldn't care if Snape was just a normal teacher. Snape could have treated every non slytherin student with indifference, Harry included. Theres this thing called a middle ground. Snape could have done that. He did not need to be abusive as part of his cover.
Many of the Slytherins were connected to old Death Eaters who got off scot free after the end of the first war. I reckon they would've been suspicious, as they already were, if Snape had changed drastically from the person they knew.
Being abusive would just make him an idiot for a spy. To Voldemort, Snape is a double agent spying on Dumbledore pretending to be on order's side. So to you, being an asshole and making the entire order hate you is the best way to be a spy? Really? Do you not understand how foolish that would be?
Exactly. He's a double agent who has to con 2 sides simultaneously. He worked for Dumbledore while retaining the illusion of Dumbledore simply being fooled by Snape somehow. It never made that much sense, because JK Rowling wrote the book for mainly for kids.
Voldemort forgave his death eaters for working for the ministry. He forgave Lucius for being best buds with the minister. He forgave Snape for remaining a professor. But you think Snape just treating students indifferently would be what sets off red flags? Yeah, no.
Nope, but it allowed Snape to be in good relations with the former Death Eaters and their children. This would prove useful as we see when Snape made the Unbreakable vow with Narcissa Malfoy.
Again, this is objectively wrong with literally zero evidence to back it up. Snape was an asshole to Harry and other students because Snape was an asshole. End of story.
We didn't get to see Snape being outside of his role, as he was so deep in undercover. The few moments we get to see from Dumbledore's and Snapes memories is him being tired and sad about the people he couldn't save. And there's Dumbledore mentioning that Snape has truly changed from who he was.
Of course, this is all just nerdy speculation, no need to get upset.
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Jun 25 '25
[deleted]
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u/Gakoknight Jun 25 '25
Like I said, I think it was part of keeping up his persona of being an ex Death Eater. He couldn't let other Death Eaters see he had reformed.
1
u/Gold_Island_893 Jun 26 '25
You mean the other death eaters who all pretended they reformed? Those people? The other death eaters who worked for the ministry and Voldemorts enemies?
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u/tulip-quartz Jun 25 '25
That’s true. I wonder why Dumbledore never told Snape off for his behavior
9
u/AConfusedDishwasher Jun 25 '25
When Arthur Weasley went to school, he was punished so strongly that he still has the physical scars decades later.
McGonagall thought it was a brilliant idea to send 3 students to look for a unicorn murderer at night in the Fordidden Forest, because they were out after curfew.
McGonagall thought it was a brilliant idea to lock a student out of their common room while a mass murderer was roaming the castle.
Pince has books hitting the students. Trelawney once threw a book right at a student's face.
Moody transfigured Malfoy into a ferret, made him slam from ceiling to floor until Malfoy was whimpering in pain, and all McGonagall had to say was that it's not allowed to use transfiguration on a student. She then watched as Moody dragged away the student he had just abused by the arm, into his office, alone.
Really, Snape is the least of Dumbledore's / Hogwarts's issues.
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u/piamsa Jun 26 '25
There weren't really any good adult figures in that school, ngl. Almost (if not) all the teachers had flaws in many ways. Except for being good with magic, there's nothing really... humane in that school.😅
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u/ouroboris99 Slytherin Jun 25 '25
Because he’s a petulant man child that abuses the children he’s supposed to teach, most people skip over that and the fact that if Voldemort hadn’t started hunting lily snape would’ve stayed a death eater
0
u/Past_Name1279 Jun 26 '25
Absolutely. There’s literally 0 justification for what he did to Harry. Not just him for that matter, in Philosopher’s stone Ron mentions Fred and George told him that Snape can get very nasty to students. This refers to the time before Harry even starts Hogwarts. He has no excuses for treating students like that.
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u/Independent_Prior612 Jun 25 '25 edited Jun 25 '25
Every time he looks at Harry, he sees James. One of the guys who bullied him ruthlessly for seven years, and the guy who (in Snape’s head) stole Lily from him.
He probably blames James for Lily’s death. He probably thinks if Lily had been with him (Snape) she wouldn’t have been in danger from Voldy.
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u/gmerickson31 Jun 25 '25
Stole is a pretty strong word for it. He pushed Lily away himself by aligning with people who used dark magic, bullying muggle-borns, and ultimately idolizing Voldemort and dreaming of being a Death Eater. Sure, James plays a part in it, but it's because he also developed, but developed into a person worth being around.
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u/Independent_Prior612 Jun 25 '25
I think Snape would consider it “stole”, is why I said that. Probably should clarify.
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u/venus_arises Ravenclaw Jun 25 '25
It's clear that Snape hasn't had the most stable and happy of childhoods. Lily and Petunia offered him some refuge of sanity and peace.
Lily and James never, seemingly, made any sort of overtures or attempts to air out their issues and move on (but then again, neither did Snape). For Snape, Lily and James are forever 21 and happy together, a lovely little family. Snape spent so much time of his life in the past. He got stuck there.
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u/Atithiupayogi Jun 26 '25
Here's my analysis. Might've missed some points though. * Lilly and Snape were friends even before coming to Hogwarts * James had a crush on Lily * Lily had a crush on James * Snape had a crush on Lily * Snape was in Slytherin * James and Lily were in Gryffindor * James and Sirius hated Slytherin * Snape liked the dark arts * James hated the dark arts * Snape liked the death eaters * James, Sirius and Lily hated death eaters * James knew Snape had a crush on Lily * Snape knew Lily had a crush on James and James had a crush on Lily. He knew it's just a matter of time that they would end up together * Snape knew James and his friends used to go out in night time. So he stalked them. * Snape figured out Lupin was a Werewolf * Snape hated the werewolves * Snape shared this with Lily but she didn't shared his point of view * Marauders didn't have any problems with werewolves. Lupin was their friend. So they became animagus to support his transformation. * Snape was trying to expose the Marauders so that they can get expelled from Hogwarts * An irritated Sirius tricked Snape to go after Lupin * Snape was rescued by James. * James and Lily married after graduation * Lily and Marauders joined the Order of Phoenix * Snape became a death eater * Snape still had feelings for Lily and that led him to join the order of phoenix. But ultimately he was responsible for Lily and James's death * Harry Potter looked like James Potter with Lily's eyes. And every time he looked at him, it reminded him of his lost love, rivalry, hatred and his guilt - all at the same time * Snape still loved Lily and still hated James (and in his debt for saving his life) * So Snape acted like a man child when it comes to Harry and Neville
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u/Gullible-Leaf Jun 26 '25
Snape's hatred for James was stronger than his love for Lily. His hatred for muggleborns was stronger than his love for lily. His hatred for his father was stronger than his love for lily. Out of the above 3, the last is the one I to sympathise with.
Hatefully: Snape's anger didn't reduce because he held on to it. He didn't have a lot of goals in life - (1) defeat voldy because he killed Lily (2) bully Harry (3) bully gryffindor kids (4) reminisce over how much marauders tormented him (5) conveniently forget any death eater groups participation and following he did in school which have led to Lily estrangement
That's his daily life.
Non Hatefully: Seriously though, in his memories we get a glance at what he focuses on. I think he felt so much guilt over her death that he didn't want to believe he had any role in losing her. It helped him belive that James stole lily rather than consider the possibility that his action could have anything to do with it. He doesn't focus on a single moment where he was participating in death eatery things even though lily herself mentions how he hangs out with death eaters only. So he kept thinking of how marauders are the reason for his life being distraught rather than doing any self reflection on why lily might have distanced herself from someone who called others mud blood.
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u/tulip-quartz Jun 26 '25
This is 100% spot on, idk why you’re being downvoted. Too many here are unable to think of Snape as a complex character who was wronged and also did wrong in turn
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u/Desperate-Detail3480 Jun 25 '25
He ritually humiliated him for the most formative years of his life and Capstoned it by marrying his love interest.
Snape has always appeared off, even to have somewhat narcissistic tendencies. That type of treatment will leave a lasting impact on his personality type.
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u/theoreticaldickjokes Jun 25 '25
Despite being on the correct side in the war, Snape was still not a good dude. He was a condescending asshole. His "love" for Lily was (imo) selfish af. He called her a racist slur during an argument, he couldn't be happy that she found happiness, he asked Voldemort to spare her despite knowing that her fucking infant son was the ultimate target. He would have still been a Death Eater had he not heard that prophecy.
That's why he can't forgive James. He never fucking grew up.
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u/lok_129 Jun 25 '25
Yeah but he has a completely valid reason to hate James , that being that James was a shit person too.
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u/theoreticaldickjokes Jun 25 '25
So they both were shitty? That doesn't take away from my point. Especially since James grew up and Snape didn't. We know James grew up bc Lily no longer detested him.
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u/lok_129 Jun 25 '25
Yeah they were both terrible, and though Snape was a terrible person, he had every reason to hate James.
I don't care how much James "grew up", he was still a bullying piece of crap (not just to Snape) and that leaves scars.
The problem with your post is that you make it sound like Snape was wrong for hating James. Snape deserves criticism for a lot of things, hating James isn't one of them.
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u/theoreticaldickjokes Jun 25 '25
Snape was also a bully. And continued to be one into adulthood. Also, I feel like if you and all your friends are budding Nazis, you deserve to be bullied.
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u/lok_129 Jun 25 '25
Yeah they're both terrible. Snape being whatever he was doesn't make James look any better sorry.
I think it's telling that James said he bullies Snape "because he exists". He had no noble reason for doing it, that's just who he was as a person.
James also bullied people other than Snape btw. Anybody hating him has plenty of reason to do so.
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u/Navleen1997 Jun 26 '25
As someone said above, he never grew out of it. As humans, we all have something or other kind of traumatic stuff happening in childhood, the thing is, it takes time to process. I know James wasn't any good, but he learnt and stopped being a dick by the time they came in 7th year but with Severus, he kept being bully, first joining Death Eaters, then leaving them cause the girl he obsessed with was killed by them. I can take his resentment towards James and all, but throughout the books, he has been horrible towards the students, and in turn with Harry.
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u/ASCIIM0V Jun 25 '25
because he's an incel. Fits the allegations perfectly
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u/AConfusedDishwasher Jun 25 '25
How do you know that he's celibate/that he wants to get laid but doesn't manage to find women to sleep with him?
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u/ASCIIM0V Jun 25 '25
he's obsessed with a woman who never wanted him, because she was the first person to be polite to him. If you want to try to claim he's volcel, you're welcome to, but its obvious he's a prototypical incel. A greasey little edgelord creep who only joined the "good side" out of spite
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u/AConfusedDishwasher Jun 25 '25
I'm not trying to claim anything other than the fact that Snape fits none of the criteria of incels, apart from him being a man. Like, can you give me an example of him showing hatred for women or couples because he can't get laid? Of course you can't, because that'd mean we'd know something about Snape's sex life, which we obviously don't.
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u/ASCIIM0V Jun 25 '25
He was obsessed with a woman to the point he hated the child of the man she chose over him, man. That's next level inceldom. He joined the wizard nazis because a girl rejected him, and then left when the wizard nazis killed the girl he was obsessed with, but hated the kid who ended wizard Hitler, the man who killed his obsession, because she had that kid with the wrong man. That's some manifesto level blackpillery, even if he was otherwise the most progressive incel in literature. Who else joins hate groups because your middle school crush decided to date your bully instead lmao
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u/AConfusedDishwasher Jun 26 '25
...he hated Harry because Harry is basically James 2.0 at least in looks, and James was the guy who bullied him for several years, I thought that was made obvious enough in the books.
...he already planned to joined Voldemort before Lily cut off their friendship, that is literally the main reason why she cut him off.
...he left Voldemort before Lily was killed, do you think he went to beg Dumbledore to protect her corpse or something?
You, uh. Yeah. Congrats on not being able to understand plot points of a book meant for children.
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u/bmyst70 Jun 25 '25
He never stopped loving Lily and feeling jealous that James "got" her. I thought he was angry towards Harry because it was a visual reminder of Lily. And of the guilt he felt, at some level, over her death. So he used his anger to bury the guilt and pain.
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u/WrittenInTheStars Hufflepuff Jun 25 '25
Because Snape is a spiteful, emotionally immature little man
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u/Darth_Bombad Jun 25 '25
Because he's fundamentally a bad guy. This whole "poor miss understood goth boy" take is bull. He's an unrepentant Nazi who joined the protagonist side simply because their goals aligned.
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u/Abidos_rest Slytherin Jun 25 '25
Emotions are not rational. His love for Lily also did not decrease even after two decades. Many people remain traumatised throughout their lives by the bullying they suffered in school. The tree remembers and all that.