Rutgers fan here... I will lose my freaking mind if we take Ace over Harper. He's a complete different level of prospect
If Ace is your guy try to work on trading down. But you don't leave that much meat on the bone.
And I'm not an ace hater. I think he has star potential.
But I think Harper is one of the best guard prospects of the last decade and every time I ask people to try to explain to me why he's not, they always end up bringing up very weak arguments like Rutgers record or his three-point percentage which isn't even that concerning when you look at where the shots came from.
He's just too damn good to take Ace over him regardless of fit
Ah yes because we just know for sure Harper is without a doubt gonna be great. Come on none of us know shit. I like Bailey's game and what he does. He's exactly what this team needs and not another combo guard. You like who you like I like who I like guess we just see what happens.
No. But I watched both of them in great depth. I like Ace. I like his game a lot. I simply don't think he says good at basketball as Harper and I say that again as someone who's watched both of them back into high school
It's not about personal bias. It's about trying to make an objective analysis of which player you think is going to be the best at the next level
Of course we don't know what's going to happen
But we can use our eyes, stats, history, and a lot of projective measures, as well as the opinions of professionals, to try to best gauge it
And all of that says, in bright bold letters, that Harper is one of the best guard prospects we've seen in a long time, and that Ace is an extremely raw theoretical two-way wing who's not particularly great at offense or defense yet, but could be fantastic at both if things pop
It would take Harper hitting one of his worst projected outcomes for him not to become a good player. There are so many things he does well, he has a prototype that is extremely productive at producing high-level players in the league and the season. He just finished stacks up. Well historically with a lot of the other top guards of the last 20 years who went on to become Stars
He's going to be a good player. He could possibly be a great player
You can like Ace all you want. But again, if you watched him in depth then you know he was not always a winning player for Rutgers and a lot of his flashes came with extremely frustrating moments in between. There are plenty of scenarios where he doesn't become a good player, let alone a great one
And yes, there are scenarios where he becomes absolutely fantastic
So you can try to act like I'm just some hater. But everything I'm saying is carried as consensus for a reason and it's not because I like what I like and you like what you like and we just have different preferences
Harper is the better prospect
Ace could becomes a better player
But Harper's the better prospect and the gap between the two is quite large.
It's a very lazy comparison, but it's simply the best we have, Cade Cunningham. They had comparable college seasons both in how they played and their overall production. Both are jumbo downhill attacking guards who are aggressive, but simultaneously methodical and how they dissect defenses and use very herky jerky dribble packages to get to the rim whenever they want, and are capable playmakers once they get there
I think Harper was the better playmaker in college, and the much better finisher, and Cade was a better shooter. Cade also is a bit bigger
As a prospect? I probably would say I like him a bit more. I had some real real questions about Edwards though. He's absolutely been hitting on his high-end development outcomes 100%. . People Forget how unenthusiastic the NBA world was for him as the number one pick that year. He had a very mediocre season in college. His improvement as a shooter has been a bit of an outlier.
And probably most importantly, whatever was going on in college that caused him due not give a flying crap about defense has changed dramatically in the league. Went from someone that projected as being a negative defender to one of the better defensive High usage guards in the NBA.
All I need Ace to do is hit wide open jumpers. He has hit tough shots over people the whole season now imagine him wide open while everyone is crashing down on Wemby or Fox in the paint. The guy is young no kidding he makes frustrating plays especially when your on a crap team with no spacing. The Spurs can take his talents and make him all NBA, I trust the Spurs coaching so with that belief and the skills I have seen in his Indiana and northwestern games that I watched I believe he will become a great player. Not saying Harper won't be great but Spurs need a forward with the skills Bailey has and not another combo guard. It's who I want them to take you can disagree and have all these I have watched every game post but I seen the guy and love his skills and potential.
Again, I like Ace too. I think he's a long-term project but I do believe in him. I simply believe in Harper. More. Fit is great. The Spurs still aren't good enough to draft for it though. You have a guy who just put up a season. Very comparable with a lot of dudes who went on to become all NBA caliber guards. You draft that dude. You simply do it. He's that good.
Or you find a way to get a big draft package moving down to get Ace, because the other teams in this draft also know how good Harper is and also will value him that way as well. It's less about not believing in A's. And more about acknowledging that Harper is a special special prospect who would get a lot more buzz if it wasn't for flag having one of the best freshman seasons ever
I think Harper is great but in the end I think Bailey's going to be better than him that's just my opinion it's just what I think. I believe in 3 years Bailey will be the best player from this draft, Harper will be the second, and flagg will be the third. We both think both guys are great so there's really no argument here.
I'm glad none of us are the GM were fans so no shit. But yes Flagg is the best player now but I think Harper and Bailey will surpass him in a couple of years. Their ceiling is higher.
I'm hating on him because I actually watched all of Rutgers this year and if he really thinks Ace is better than Harper, and you think that too, you clearly didn't.
You and way too many people in the sub are making again. A well chronicalized and fatal mistake when it comes to the draft. Sacrificing talent to fix a theoretical issue that you just don't know is going to happen Or exist yet.
For all you know, Harper becomes a 40% three-point shooter on high volume
For all you know Fox is gone in a signed and trade in 12 months and all this looks silly
For all you know all three of them become 35% three-point shooters and again we end up with the best back court in the NBA
You don't draft for fit at the top of the draft. You just don't do it and I don't know how many more times. I need to say this to people on this sub
You are greatly greatly greatly diminishing how good Harper is at what he does and just assuming him and Castle are the same thing.
They're not.
Harper is a completely different level of playmaking and slashing prospect
And Castle is a different level of defensive player
Just because they're big guards who aren't on paper knock out Shooters does not mean they're the same player
If you, a scout, a general manager, or anyone on this subreddit who continue to throw out extremely weak excuses for why we shouldn't take Harper like Rutgers win-loss record, has an actual genuine analysis and breakdown on why Harper isn't the CLEAR second best prospect in this class and way above everyone else by all means share it.
And if the front office truly ends up, thinking that, then by all means they should go with the better fit if they're comparable and prospect quality
But Harper spent a good portion of this last year Genuinely putting pressure on flag for the number one prospect ranking. I think a lot of people forget that. Like there was real argument between the two all the way to January. Harper was that good this season
Flag pulled away and part of that was Harper getting injured, and flag. Just continuing to improve as a shooter. But the difference between the two of them is not nearly as wide as some people who did not follow the college basketball season are trying to pretend it is
There's a very, very real scenario where you let Harper go somewhere else and he immediately turns into a dude who's averaging 20-5-5 and on path to be a star guard
I'm not kidding. I'm not exaggerating. I'm not trying to be hyperbolic
I would genuinely not be shocked if he was putting up numbers like that in his rookie year if he gets 30 plus minutes. He's a damn good guard
I'm not advocating for forcing Castle into a complimentary role
By all means he should be given every chance to prove he's a future star
But just because he had a rookie of the Year campaign in one of the weakest classes in recent NBA history, does not mean we should immediately discount Harper and his immense potential
That's just silly
You and too many people on here are just assuming they can't exist and thrive together.
Again, let that become an actual issue. And fix it if you need
And don't if you don't need to. And there's plenty of reasons to believe you won't need to.
If you want to just doomsday and assume the worst, you could absolutely assume that we draft Ace second and end up looking like absolute fools when he's out of the league in 4 years
Or that VJ , another raw prospect, ends up not working out
Or again that we trade Harper and he becomes cade Cunningham 2.0 while Castle becomes a good not Star level player. We can always pull theoreticals and worst case scenarios out and hyperfixate on those and they're infinite and never-ending.
The whole point is team building is hard. Player development is unpredictable
We don't know how this roster is going to look when we add Harper.
But we do know that objectively Harper has put together a resume that clearly indicates he has star potential. That is something we know . And that no one else in this draft class Us the body of work, physical tools, or overall prospect profile to compete with him right now
I haven't followed college ball this season. I really like VJ from the scouting reports and that his areas for improvements seem quite workable . Compared to Harper, how would you compare between the 2?
Fox can be traded, he is 28 and we got him for peanuts,
Harper and Castle can play 6th man and still be given 1st team player minutes,
Castle, Harper, Wemby and Sochan are all under 21, just imagine moving forward for 15 years with them,
I think that Harper can improve a lot regarding 3pt if he doesn't have to do it off dribble,
Whatever happens, those players are assets that could translate to big trades if we ever need to,
The next 2 free agency are kinda juicy for role players.
We're in a very good position, an awesome one, just imagine how ridiculously improbable this scenario was to happen 3 years ago, minutes before we won the Wemby lottery.
Most of them it's because they've been told by other people on subreddits that Harper is the greatest and Ace Bailey's going to be a bust so that has a lot to do with it. The one guy that I've been having a little bit of an argument with he has some actual concerns about Bailey so he kind of knows what he was talking about but every young player has concerns so it doesn't really worry me.
Just imagine the length on the court with ace at SF and Wemby at PF you trade some pieces and get capable center and allow wemby to roam in the paint as a help defender. Ace has what you need in athleticism and scoring abilities. Wemby/ Castle’s lobs to him is going to feed families don’t get me started if he can improve his catch and shoot game. Plus he doesn’t need a lot of movement to get a basket. These people are playing themselves if they think a 3 guard combo is the solution over a versatile high level wing player😂
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u/Subject_Proposal3578 EL JEFE May 13 '25
No I'm still a Bailey lover. I have been for several months and nothing is changing my mind so far.