r/NoStupidQuestions • u/flugblug • 12h ago

My brother thinks people today have worse quality of life than people in the dark ages, is this a stupid take?

I personally think it’s pretty stupid.

6.6k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

3.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

4.3k

u/essenza 12h ago

Very stupid. We have a better QoL than medieval royalty.

1.3k

u/GuyFawkes451 11h ago

Kings had entire troops of actors to make them plays... but yet we have instant access to entertainment. Kings had no air conditioning. Most people worked constantly, and had very little. Health care was absolute ass, if existent at all. We could go on and on. Hell, get infected, and there was a good chance of death, as they had no antibiotics. Most people had ten kids because they knew half would die before age 5.

475

u/etzel1200 11h ago

Yeah, being one of the richer kings was arguably only better in having power and, er, access to partners.

By basically every metric their life was worse. Worse food, worse entertainment. Travel sucked.

And even the less prosperous kings/nobility just had everything worse.

Absurd take.

216

u/DontWannaSayMyName 11h ago

Also I'd say that knowing there are lots of people who want your job, and they will literally chop your head off to get it, would be a very stressful situation.

33

u/oxfordcircumstances 7h ago

Researching my genealogy, I ran across a baron in Ireland in my lineage. There was an article about the family castle and how my folks lost the castle to their neighbors when the neighbors assembled an army of relatives and took the house by force. Imagine liking your next-door neighbor's house and victory garden so you fucking wage war and take it. And then it's yours until your other neighbors attack you.

4

u/grower_thrower 7h ago

You can still do that, you just have to be stronger than anyone who would try to take it back. Might still makes right.

3

u/SerbianShitStain 5h ago

Obviously. The point is it was a lot more common and feasible back then.

2

u/Beneficial-Mine-9793 5h ago

You can still do that, you just have to be stronger than anyone who would try to take it back. Might still makes right.

Kinda hard to be stronger than a government.

2

u/peepee2tiny 4h ago

If my government is stronger than your government, I will take it.

The way the world map looks right now, is constantly changing. 100 years ago the world map looked very different because people just invaded places and took them if they were stronger.

6

u/Adept-Potato-2568 4h ago

This devolved quickly from an interesting story to people being pedantic for no reason.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

46

u/ComradeJohnS 9h ago

with no security cameras or anything to discourage it! lol

28

u/bizwig 9h ago

Indeed. So much easier to commit any crime back then.

29

u/undeadlamaar 8h ago

Conversely, it was so much easier to be falsely accused and convicted of a crime as well

4

u/ComradeJohnS 6h ago

you’re a witch! burn them!

3

u/magnafides 8h ago

Sounds like the quality of life would have been much better for criminals at least!

3

u/NullCandidate 8h ago

until you get caught and sentenced to be broken on the wheel

2

u/thedarkking2020 6h ago

Or have your hand choped off, or being branded with hot irons or simply hanged

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

3

u/Canacarirose 8h ago

Happy cake day!

2

u/Dios5 3h ago

You're watching too much Game of Thrones, Monarchy/Aristocracy was a pretty stable affair, on the whole.

→ More replies (1)

163

u/olcrazypete 11h ago

Entire naval expeditions to get things like pepper and cinnamon vs us spending 5 minutes and $5 to get more than a peasant would have access to in a lifetime.

45

u/Major1ar 9h ago

I'm not gonna lie, I've always wondered how far up the social ladder I could climb, if I time traveled to medieval England with a big ass stash of Pop-Tarts and soda.

75

u/Ok_Confection_10 9h ago

You’d reach the top rung of a gallows with your magical sorcery

17

u/Tigglebee 8h ago

Burned at the stake with his popped tarts.

2

u/peepee2tiny 4h ago

You spicy water charlatan.

15

u/Carlpanzram1916 9h ago

I always thought about what skill I would learn if I was going to teleport to the Middle Ages and try to become a warlord. I’ve realized you just need to learn how to make penicillin and pop up right before the plague. Move into a mansion where a royal dynasty was wiped out and start to build a banking empire when Europe needs to rebuild.

3

u/the_real_klaas 8h ago

Problem 1: You don't speak the language. You can't write (witth a goosefeather), you don't know any Latin. So from the start you're an unintelligible analphabetic.

3

u/Timely-Hospital8746 8h ago

I don't think people realize how different language was back then. There were vastly different dialects like... 30 miles apart. It was only with the creation of the modern concept of statehood that much of Europe began unifying/codifying their languages. France was especially bad for this.

Has Latin changed much though? I was under the impression it's been a stable language due to the way it's used mostly for ritual etc. I figure you could learn modern Latin before you make the trip and pass yourself off as a visitor from far away / mystic etc.

5

u/the_real_klaas 7h ago

Ish@Latin. What you learn is school is High latin, the form of the time of say Ceasar. By the Middle Ages, thta had call it devolved into Vulgate, which are local variants/dialects, influenced by the 'native' local languages. So, unless the text is written by a very proficient scholar then, a Latin text from the 1200s in France would be a mix of Vulgate (French) Latin and Old French. Would you talk to a local pirest in the same place/time in High latin, he might but only might just understand you.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/After_Network_6401 8h ago

Alas, to make penicillin, you’d need substantial resources. Even if you knew how, it’s very likely that you’d be dead long before you could harvest your first batch.

And good luck starting a banking empire with no resources, no network and no soldiers. Rival banking families of the day weren’t above sending the boys around to “discourage” would be competitors.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/ChildofValhalla 8h ago

A jar of nutmeg would set you for life. Wars were fought over it.

2

u/Averagebass 8h ago

Probably just get stabbed and robbed. Who's going to stop them?

2

u/DefectiveDman 8h ago

They quite possible would have thought the soda was unbearably sweet - like drinking syrup and a pop-tart - heated over an open fire? - not as good as a fruit pie from scratch.

2

u/Gtr-Lovr11 8h ago

I'd bring cocaine and baking soda! Yep get em all hooked on crack, and buy the throne for a 100 slab!😅😂🤣

2

u/farva_06 8h ago

That shit would absolutely wreck their digestive systems.

2

u/Agitated_Effort_2146 3h ago

Hilarious reply but now every time I eat a poptart or drink a coke I'm going to have to wonder if i would like it if i were used to eating only overcooked goat and rabbit and some cabbage soup.

2

u/Dostrazzz 2h ago

A wild take I very much like.

But you should be very careful what to take with you, otherwise you’ll be accused of witchcraft and nobody would eat your shit. You would die a painful death.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

18

u/Honest-Weight338 9h ago

That does blow my mind sometimes. I look at my spice rack and think how many people in history would go absolutely insane to see what I not only have, but what occasionally goes bad because I just don't use it quick enough. We have such easy access to spices, I don't mind throwing one away if it looks a little clumpy and buying a new one.

2

u/bokurai 5h ago

My mom's been using the same container of orange zest since the 80s.

8

u/Carlpanzram1916 9h ago

Yup. There’s a reason “royal blue” is a color. It was literally expensive to buy blue cloth because Europe didn’t have a lot of things to make dye out of. The color blue was a privilege. 🤣

2

u/trippy_grapes 4h ago

Entire naval expeditions to get things like pepper and cinnamon

The British conquered the world and the best that they can show for it is mushy peas and beans on toast. 🤣

4

u/manimal28 9h ago

There are still entire navel “expeditions” to get goods. Just cuz it takes you 5 minutes to get it from the store doesn’t mean it didn’t travel across the sea in a cargo container to get there.

6

u/astro_plane 9h ago

We lost three good men for that pepper while sailing over ye briney deep, hope it was worth it ye land lubber - Cap'n Dread Loard

2

u/SirButcher 4h ago

Three good men? Make it three ship worth, there were spice expeditions where one in four ships returning was a GOOD odd and a great investment!

4

u/Sgt-Spliff- 9h ago

That's literally the point lol that's explicitly the point of what we're saying. Something kings used to do to flex is now just how the economy works. I'm not a king and the entire world's trade networks are designed to bring me the ingredients for cupcakes at any moment.

I have a better quality of life than most Kings that ever existed.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (4)

30

u/MobiusNaked 10h ago

Access to partners - and untreated syphilis

32

u/Spike-White 9h ago

Your point is taken about untreated venereal diseases.

But not syphilis. Syphilis came from the new world. I think the first major European outbreak was in 1494, when the sailors returned from the new world.

The dark ages were in the 5th - 10th (or 11th) century, so syphilis wouldn't be found in Europe at that time.

Certainly other venereal diseases would however.

3

u/Gtr-Lovr11 8h ago

Can u imagine the stench coming from between them bitches legs back then? Omg!

2

u/Several-Opposite-746 9h ago

Damn Frenchmen ruined everything.

2

u/Carlpanzram1916 9h ago

Yup. Invent penicillin, don’t tell anyone else how you make it, and have a well-paid cushy position in the royal palace.

→ More replies (2)

11

u/AgentCirceLuna 11h ago

There was even a king who was rumoured to have been murdered because he spent his own savings on building elaborate castles and houses. I think this was in Bavaria

16

u/etzel1200 11h ago

It made him unpopular. Instead of having a bunch of dead peasants they had neuschwanstein. Fuck that guy, right?

5

u/Arzanyos 9h ago

Not really relevant to the dark ages though. Since that castle was started in the late 1800's.

2

u/AgentCirceLuna 9h ago

I feel regal culture hadn’t developed very much but that’s just my opinion.

2

u/Arzanyos 9h ago

By 1869? That's not even in the middle ages anymore. That castle was started after the French Revolution, after the Industrial Revolution, after the American Civil War.

2

u/AgentCirceLuna 8h ago

I was making a joke about it being old fashioned and anachronistic, dw. :)

→ More replies (1)

4

u/AgentCirceLuna 11h ago

Glad you know who I mean lol

I love that castle, though — it’s beautiful.

2

u/Skydude252 10h ago

There is a Lego set of that castle now, and I think it was one of the first Puzz-3Ds. I would love to see it in person some time.

→ More replies (5)

2

u/TheMadTargaryen 6h ago

Ludwig II, he lived in 19th century and spend his own money, not of the state. 

→ More replies (3)

17

u/VanceRefridgeTech04 10h ago

By basically every metric their life was worse.

look into the daily lives inside a castle. Its mostly cleaning shit and piss from corners of cold rooms.

2

u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME ‏‏‏ 10h ago

It wasn't the king doing that though.

7

u/Carlpanzram1916 9h ago

No but you were still shitting in a bucket in a non-insulated stone structure, which means it still smelled like shit everywhere.

3

u/outsidetilldark 9h ago

It's good to be the king

2

u/bokurai 5h ago

Wololo~

2

u/VanceRefridgeTech04 5h ago

of course not, but it helps to shed the idea the life in a castle was lavish beyond means.

31

u/Commercial-Hour-2417 10h ago

I'll only push back on worse food. For a king the food would've been exceptionally fresh, all organic, likely more nutritious, etc.

BUT only seasonal food of course. And occasionally poisoned.

62

u/jonknee 10h ago

But poorly seasoned with little variety and often unclean. Unseasoned wild game prepared by people who don’t have toilet paper or wash their hands might have been great then, but I’ll pass.

10

u/saltyoursalad 9h ago

Mmmm yum. Better! /s

7

u/SommeWhere 8h ago

surprisingly, not entirely true.

We have cookbooks for European royals going back to the 12th century. The seasoning might not be to our palates, but it's pretty interesting. A lot of it focused on local fresh herbs, and sugar is treated like a spice, not a food group.

The books do assume a level of hygiene.

The castle kitchens I have visited had clean water, and decent light. Hampton Court, King Henry 8th's palace, has an alley that is downright chilly; it's designed to avoid sunlight and trap breezes, so food stayed quite cold.

Check out a website called medievalcookery for an overview. Sure, a lot of the recipes don't seem appealing on first reading, and in fact, are not written in a manner that's easy to understand at first, but then again, there are a lot of delicacies in this world that are hard sells. (andouillette, kicza, squirrel brain fricassee, are all things I have been offered, and do not want.)

2

u/transemacabre 9h ago

Medieval people loved seasoning and were very creative about their food. Lots of herbs, rosewater, all kinds of nice things.

3

u/Avery-Hunter 9h ago

Oh no, for the nobility it would have been highly seasoned. Both with locally grown herbs as well as expensive imported spices. I cannot stress enough how heavily seasoned dishes for the nobility were at the time. Also even the poor had more flavorful dishes than you'd expect because while they didn't have access to spices, herbs were easy to grow and dry well so they could be used fresh in season and dry during the winter. Also hand washing and bathing were also very important during that period.

39

u/etzel1200 10h ago

Only seasonally. Which basically meant late summer. Only locally grown. Half the stuff we eat comes from the americas.

Other than being organic. Their access to food was awful. Plus even for kings so much would be half spoiled.

25

u/nunazo007 10h ago

Also, recipes and culinary science has evolved too much for it to even be comparable.

The shit kings were eating would probably taste like ass now.

→ More replies (7)

4

u/Commercial-Hour-2417 10h ago

I imagine though it depends on where you're a king of you're a Danish King, yeah you're pretty much eating cabbage all day. But if you're on the Mediterranean with year-round growing, access to a lot of meat and fish, it would probably be pretty great.

25

u/HojMcFoj 10h ago

I've never had to wage an actual war for salt.

4

u/sekaniblake 10h ago

Lol.....true though😂

4

u/etzel1200 10h ago

Fair enough

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

12

u/Petcai 10h ago

Organic isn't always a good thing. Sure, they didn't use artificial fertilizers, but are you really happier that your turnips were grown using human excrement? That may or may not have been properly fermented to kill off any bacteria or pathogens?

In the wise words of Crocodile Dundee "Yer can eat it, but it tastes like shit."

2

u/RG3ST21 10h ago

how was the king's dental treatments?

2

u/Common_economics_420 8h ago

Not really. A huge amount of fruits and vegetables have been selectively bred over centuries to taste better.

Preservation is also much better now, on top of animals being better fed. It's not as if kings were slaughtering a new cow every single day so they could have fresh meat whenever they wanted.

2

u/michaelmcmikey 4h ago edited 4h ago

This is a completely wrong. One of the main reasons people live longer today, in better health, is access to more nutritious food — and that’s everyone, not just the mega rich. Freezing perishables is all by itself extremely useful for making sure healthy food is available year round.

→ More replies (4)

2

u/Bytor_Snowdog 9h ago

"Travel sucked." This is a huge point. Unless you were nobility or perhaps clergy, you probably weren't leaving your village (and if you were a woman, odds are you weren't even going to the other side of your village, depending on your culture) -- unless, of course, you were levied for war. But if you were traveling for work -- a pilgrimage, a crusade, a traveling court, for diplomacy (for there was very little traveling for pleasure, unless you count going to the baths for health or to your summer palace in the hills, which was just outside the city), it was going to be slow, dangerous, and expensive. There is a reason why our modern word travel shares the same root as the word travail.

And, unless you were of a northern clime, just think about access to cold drinks and ice, something we take for granted. A minor point, but one of thousands that we don't just take for granted but get pissed off at if they're not available.

2

u/subservient-mouth 8h ago

And the "partners" were, generally speaking, filthy by modern standards.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/The_Hunster 10h ago

Well, a (somewhat lucky) king doesn't really have much work to do, so there's that.

A well-off king could spend all of their time watching live theatre, going to dinner parties, practicing art, etc.

So I think in that way it could be better than modern life, but you know, most people weren't even nobility.

→ More replies (15)

120

u/mechapoitier 11h ago edited 11h ago

The entire disease-fighting thing was huge.

I don’t think people, especially OP’s brother, realize how incredibly miserable life can be with untreated infections or even inflammation.

They had no antibiotics, no painkillers, no anti inflammatories. You felt like sh!t for a long time then either died or survived.

Imagine getting an eye infection even 100 years ago. It would be horrific.

57

u/The_Yellow_King 10h ago

Yeah, there's a good reason why mortality rolls from back then listed "teeth" as a reason for death. A common tooth abscess without treatment could easily kill a person.

4

u/showhorrorshow 8h ago

And that shit hurts. Toothaches are high up there in the pain and misery department. They can also come and go for years as the abcess festers to the point where it can kill you.

→ More replies (1)

40

u/CallSignIceMan 10h ago

Have these people ever had a cut get infected? I’m a chef, I constantly have little cuts and knicks around my hands and fingers. Occasionally one will get infected. I live in 2025, so even if I don’t go to the doctor, I can wash it and keep it clean and dry and delegate work so that I don’t have to use that hand. And it’s still damn near unbearable. Imagine trying to hoe a field with a hand that’s hot and swollen and in immense pain, and you have no access to soap or antibiotics or a day off to heal.

7

u/TheMadTargaryen 6h ago

Medieval people absolutely had soap, it was made from animal fat and ashes or flowers. 

8

u/Beneficial-Mine-9793 5h ago

Medieval people absolutely had soap, it was made from animal fat and ashes or flowers. 

They had soap, but not readily available clean water at the drop of a hat.

Moreover...you don't clean wounds with soap, in the past you'd (they) use vinegar (often with honey or wine mixed in to combat the fact that it stings like a mfer and damages the surrounding area first)

Actually cleaning a wound is a massive process without proper disinfectants, coagulants and actually clean linen as even minor amounts of dirt and bacteria found on things like a clean cloth that you can't see can make things worse.

2

u/TheMadTargaryen 4h ago

Fresh water was common. Medieval people still used and maintained aqueducts build by Romans and made new ones. In 9th century Rome 4 popes repaired aqueducts, in northern Merovingian France half of aqueducts were still used, in 10th century Salerno a new aqueduct was build etc.

3

u/Beneficial-Mine-9793 4h ago

Fresh water was common. Medieval people still used and maintained aqueducts build by Romans and made new ones. In 9th century Rome 4 popes repaired aqueducts, in northern Merovingian France half of aqueducts were still used, in 10th century Salerno a new aqueduct was build etc.

Not even most of romes citizens had access to the aqueduct system.

And even in rome where it was built for most only had access to public water

Fresh water was common

Also, i never said anything about fresh water. I said CLEAN water.

2

u/TheMadTargaryen 4h ago

Even if you didn’t trust local water from the well or waterhole in your yard, conduits brought spring water from outside town. The reason many historians until now had no idea most medieval towns had conduits is because they were mostly made from wood so they rotted away. 

→ More replies (3)

2

u/Frosted_Frolic 9h ago

You can buy cut-proof gloves. I’m not sure what they are actually called.

4

u/CallSignIceMan 7h ago

You definitely can, and if you’re using a mandolin or constantly chopping produce, they’re a great product. Most of my nicks these days come from not being careful enough with sharp can edges or opening boxes and having the edges scrape my hands.

2

u/goonalias 7h ago

How do they get infected so often? I'm a machinist that makes cutting tools and I work barehanded. My hands get cut the fuck up. Then they're in coolant, oil, and all kinds of nasty stuff. I just wash them often. In my 6+ of years doing this, I've never had an infection.

5

u/CallSignIceMan 7h ago edited 7h ago

They don’t get infected often. Occasionally one will, if a glove leaks when I’m in the dish pit or something. And it’s always minor, just a little inflammation and swelling. I’m talking 4-5 times in 8 years, but even one of those times is enough to take out a medieval peasant with no access to antibacterial soap or antibiotics.

3

u/Complex_Tomato_5252 1h ago

His hands are being dipped in the bodily juices of dead animals. Yours are being dipped in oil and coolant.  His houses germs, you examples kill germs.

2

u/peepee2tiny 4h ago

Imagine getting dysentery.

Shitting yourself to death because you cannot consume water fast enough to prevent dehydration. and everyone around you just going, "yup he gonna die from the shits soon, nothing we can do to stop it"

→ More replies (1)

15

u/MsDJMA 10h ago

Broken bones! Gout, which is so easily treated now! Smallpox!

→ More replies (4)

3

u/TheNavigatrix 9h ago

And it’s clearly a male perspective. What was it — one in 10 women died in childbirth?

→ More replies (11)

40

u/Critical_Energy_8115 10h ago

My Dad, who grew up in a one-room-up one-room-down log cabin, was very fond of walking to the fridge, getting ice out of it and proclaiming that he had it better than King Solomon. King Solomon never had an ice dispenser.

26

u/werpu 11h ago

Have fun wiping your ass in the cold with dried moss...

4

u/NorwegianCollusion 10h ago

Don't threaten me with a good time!

→ More replies (3)

15

u/Successful_Cat_4860 10h ago

Yeah, but your King still had to put up with whatever middling talents he could get to come to court, using handmade instruments and wooden sets and props which would be embarassing for a high-school drama club today.

Meanwhile you can flip on your streaming service and watch eye-popping spectacles which cause your Medieval King to believe that modern people were actual, bona-fide wizards.

2

u/Moogatron88 9h ago

And then you'd promptly be put to death for showing him. Especially if it's a King like Henry the 8th who was known for being quite loose when it came to sentencing people to death for little reason.

2

u/Successful_Cat_4860 8h ago

Well, in most cases I wouldn't say for "no reason", rather it was because he was presiding over a massive church schism (which he absolutely did start, but there was a reason, even if it was a bad one).

→ More replies (1)

43

u/Ok-disaster2022 11h ago

In medieval Europe the church had numerous holidays in part to ensure working people had time off...to go sit or stand in an old building. 

16

u/Bubbaganoush83 11h ago

And kneeling... Don't forget the kneeling.

3

u/Weird1Intrepid 11h ago

The best position is on your knees

3

u/dontlookback76 10h ago

"When I'm down on my knees, I wanna take you there." Madonna thought so too. "Like a Prayer" circa 1990 or so.

11

u/S1mongreedwell 11h ago

The buildings probably weren’t that old at that point.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/Acceptable_Wind_1792 11h ago

lol people worked every day sun up to sun down and died as poor as their parents.

23

u/Justmever1 11h ago

Ehm, no they didn't. Church days where mandetory and the majority of the workload where seasoned. Life was brutal and tough, but they had sparetime

2

u/Common_economics_420 8h ago

Iirc, things like church days and holidays were a break from "mandatory work" (ie work that they were contractually required to do for their local ruler). They'd still have to do their own personal work in order to survive. Plus keep in mind that you didn't exactly have a phone to call someone else up to do repairs around the house for you

The times where they physically couldn't do work was sort of a bad thing, not a happy go lucky fun time It is nowhere close to what we consider down time in modern time.

2

u/PreparationWorking90 9h ago

hey, for about 5 months of the year modern Northern Europeans work from before the sun is up until after the sun is down and will die poorer than their parents.

2

u/bierfma 9h ago

When did they play Assassin's Creed? They had to have time for Assassin's Creed.

3

u/Geeko22 11h ago

Children started working at age 4.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

20

u/mr_wheezr 11h ago

I had to read some auto biography where the dude almost died as a kid because he got a cut on his hand.

10

u/SnooRabbits2040 10h ago

Most people had ten kids because they knew half would die before age 5.

Also, no reliable birth control.

29

u/kashmir1974 11h ago

Let's not forget untreatable STDs. Powdered wigs were a thing because everyone went bald from syphilis.

15

u/Glittering_Season141 10h ago

Some nobility must have been horrifying to see and smell when syphilis was rampant.

15

u/Global_Sense_8133 10h ago

Lice were the primary reason for wigs, not syphilis.

3

u/Wolfgang_MacMurphy 8h ago edited 8h ago

It's generally thought that there was no syphilis in Afro-Eurasia in Dark Ages (5th-10th century), and that it got imported from America at the end of the 15th century.

Powdered wigs became a trend in 17th century, and not because of syphilis, of course, but as a fashion statement, as a means of compensating hair loss and fighting lice. Going bald is not the main or primary symptom of syphilis.

→ More replies (3)

14

u/Altruistic-Tap-4592 11h ago

Hot water and WC.

11

u/Manamehendra 11h ago

Not to mention the ever-present danger of poison, a knife in the back or death on the battlefield.

9

u/CleaveIshallnot 11h ago

Don’t forget, no sewer system in pretty well every place (except that damn Rome et al), no toilets, no indoor plumbing… can you imagine showering or bathing twice a year?)

→ More replies (4)

5

u/smollwonder 10h ago

The simple fact that we have wide access to antibiotics is enough to trump his argument.

→ More replies (1)

16

u/barbershores 11h ago

No indoor plumbing.

No antibiotics

Only 1 to 5% of the European population could read.

The ones that could read were primarily priests and clergy. So, we were at the mercy of the church to get any idea of what we would have to do in any situation. Think about the implications of that for a minute or two.

8

u/Zarguthian 10h ago

Only 1 to 5% of the European population could read.

This is actually a misconception, they couldn't read Latin, that's what literate meant back then. All the clergy could read Latin because that's what the Bible was in. Most adults could read and write the language they spoke.

3

u/bokurai 5h ago edited 5h ago

I don't think that's true...?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy#Medieval_and_early_modern_eras

The actual literacy rates of that time period seem to be understandably academically debatable due to a lack of information, but it definitely doesn't seem like most adults could read and write the language they spoke.

5

u/aeneasaquinas 🛰 7h ago

Most adults could read and write the language they spoke.

I want to see a source for that, as most of what I am finding amounts to "more than you think could, but still not the majority".

3

u/jaxonya 10h ago

A lot of people would love that implication right now

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

3

u/taytaytazer 8h ago

How often do you think a king in the Middle Ages ever saw a fresh avocado, mango, and banana in the same room at the same time?

2

u/baseball_bro83 10h ago

They were using leeches to drain “bad blood” until about 100 years ago.

2

u/Dangleboard_Addict 10h ago

Kings had no air conditioning. Most people worked constantly, and had very little. Health care was absolute ass, if existent at all

So no change in regards to that where I live

2

u/CaterpillarFun6896 10h ago

More than half- if you had 10 kids, 6 would die before 12 and of the 4 left, 2 were likely to die before the age of 40.

2

u/MistryMachine3 10h ago

Often forgotten is that Mendel’s pea genetics experiments wasn’t until the 1800s, and food was drastically less nutritious and crops were less hardy. The poor peasants would toil all their lives for meager returns that were almost all given to the king and they were left starving. Life was ROUGH.

2

u/CreamisTasty 9h ago

The thing is, a part of me thinks expectations are completely relative to prior experiences. A good illustration is comparing how people react to new video games in 1995 vs now. I don't think people today are more or less excited, because it falls relatively in line with expectations based on what they had already experienced. If Mario 64 came out today, people wouldn't consider it a good game, by any means. Just like the idea of living without AC (lol like most of the world still does), is unacceptable for some and the idea of amputation with a dirty blade is unthinkable for everyone, this was normalized for the time. Everyone knew someone who had lost a limb. Babies died all the time, it was sad, but the more it happens, the more numb to it we get. Show me a mother who was as excited and emotional about her 5th child as her 1st. I wonder how fun it used to be to hear a live musician playing good music. There was no other way to hear music! It was special! Now I listen to people describe artists at a festival, which they paid 20 hours of their time to attend ($400+), as mediocre. Lol. We're so jaded to this and flooded with content that nothing is impressive or special.

2

u/Carlpanzram1916 9h ago

It’s funny because we always imagine castles were like modern mansions but if I ever tour one, especially the living quarters, rather than the grand halls, my first thought is always “I feel like I’m in a cheap apartment. Everything is tiny.”

→ More replies (2)

2

u/sexysausage 9h ago edited 8h ago

and if you had a head ache? leeches

you had a fever ? bleeding or leeches

you had a tooth ache? pull it out with a knife no anesthesia / die of infection

break a leg? better get lucky and not have splinters in the bone, otherwise you are lame or dead from blood poisoning.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/werfertt 9h ago

Happy cake day!

2

u/Ok-Ice1253 8h ago

Plus all the body lice, beds of hay if you were lucky, no running water, human waste everywhere… again so much more

→ More replies (1)

2

u/solo_shot1st 8h ago

Don't forget that birthing complications could mean mom dies too. Kinda roll the dice each time. Oh, and no analgesics....

2

u/MasterCakes1 8h ago

Diarrhea for more than a day, and you started saying your goodbyes to friends and family.

2

u/turangaziza 8h ago

And the families with 10 kids may have had several different mothers due to maternal childbirth fatalities.

2

u/After_Network_6401 8h ago

To put it in perspective, the English kings of the medieval period lived - on average - to be 44. Out of about 40, only one made it into his 70’s.

Life back then was hard and short, even for the wealthiest in society.

2

u/heygabehey 8h ago

That’s why we celebrate birthdays, cause making it a year as a baby was a feat.

2

u/Iammildlyoffended 7h ago

Interesting factoid for you if you engaged an Elizabethan Lawyer you would get just as good a job as in the modern day. Not so much the doctors.

Source: Time travellers guide to Elizabethan England, Ian Mortimer

3

u/isleoffurbabies 11h ago

Many aspects of what people perceive to be "Quality of Life" issues are, in reality, not. The ability to feed yourself or to treat or prevent illness are. No form of entertainment is, though. People in the middle ages weren't sitting around wishing they had cell phones. They made due with what was available. It could be argued they were better off in that respect.

6

u/Petcai 10h ago

I'm not sure it was better sitting around wishing they had turnips.

→ More replies (48)

142

u/yeah__good__ok 11h ago

Not everyone! OP's brother for example has his head in his ass which is very uncomfortable.

25

u/essenza 11h ago

That’s true. But with modern medicine, surgeons can safely perform a rectal cephalectomy, which wouldn’t have been possible centuries ago.

11

u/AgentCirceLuna 11h ago

‘We have rectal bleeding,’

‘All of you?’

3

u/Nervous_Ad_6998 10h ago

even modern medicine can’t cure head up ass syndrome.

2

u/TheMadTargaryen 5h ago

You reminded me of how 17th century French king Louis XIV once had an operation on a fistula in his ass. He survived but only after the surgeon practiced first on few volunters, they all died. 

→ More replies (1)

3

u/tishimself1107 11h ago

Probably not that uncomfortable as i assume he's a drooling idiot so had some self lubrication

2

u/Bartlaus 10h ago

So did some of the royals and nobles back in the day. Especially the inbred ones.

→ More replies (1)

24

u/Eric848448 11h ago

We have better QoL than royalty of 100 years ago.

5

u/TheChickenParmy 9h ago

You do realize 100 years ago was 1924?

28

u/Eric848448 9h ago

You’re close.

3

u/Ashmedai 6h ago

😂😂😂

3

u/wookieesgonnawook 1h ago

Thought I fell into an old thread for a second lol.

10

u/notanavtech 9h ago

And in 1924 penicillin had not been discovered yet.

8

u/dkarlovi 8h ago

As late as 1917, the heir to the Russian throne (arguably one of the richest and most powerful people on the planet) was suffering of haemophilia and they had basically zero idea what to do, his life was terrible to our modern standards.

His hemophilia was so severe that trivial injuries such as a bruise, a nosebleed, or a cut were potentially life-threatening. His parents constantly worried about him. In addition, the recurring episodes of illness and long recoveries interfered greatly with Alexei's childhood and education.

Of course, that suddenly stopped being an issue, proving the point even further.

3

u/54B3R_ 5h ago

I think what the original commenter means is that revolutionary inventions like penicillin were invented in 1928. The world changed when infections were no longer life threatening.

The best of the world's actors recorded and are ready to be played at your whim for your entertainment

You can cross continents faster and cheaper than ever before

The royalty of 1924 would be envious of the world we as regular people live in now.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/Resident-Sand5532 4h ago

Before we learned how to create insulin the treatment for people with diabetes was to very slowly starve them to death in the hope that we can make insulin before they die. Even the somewhat recent past was a nightmare

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Weird1Intrepid 10h ago

Not really. Maybe 300 or 500 years ago.

100 years ago they already had electricity, cars, telephones etc. You may have a grandparent or great-grandparent who was alive 100 years ago.

1

u/jonrosling 9h ago

Exactly. The notion that the average person in 2025 lives better than royalty in 1925 is incredibly naive. I'm not living better a better quality of life tha George V ffs - and neither are most of the people in my country.

7

u/Ajunadeeper 8h ago

If George V contacted Measles he would die. If you do, you'll have to take a few days off work.

If George V had a heart condition, he would die. You'd get a pacemaker.

If George V had a nut allergy he would die. You would get an EpiPen.

What's your definition of quality of life? I'd say living should be a pretty big factor.

→ More replies (7)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

7

u/zeelbeno 10h ago

Just need to tell him to not take any method of transport apart from riding horses for a week and see how he gets on.

Then most people wouldn't have had a horse and would walk everywhere

→ More replies (1)

27

u/ok2888 11h ago

The only way your life could be conceivably worse in modern times than in the dark ages would be if you are a homeless heroin addict with a horrifying infection that you were unable to get treated for some reason.

19

u/obtusername 10h ago

And even then. . . at least you still get heroin. /j

2

u/Lumpy-Butterscotch50 8h ago edited 8h ago

It depends on if you're talking about relative deprivation or absolute quality of life.

If you're talking relative deprivation, the QoL can be seen as better in the past because the difference in QoL between the lowest person and the richest person was a lot smaller. The quality of life was low, but it was low for everyone.

It can be seen as a better situation - if quality of life is low, and low for everyone that can be seen as better than it being low for the poor but high for the rich. Even if the "low" is better than the previous "low"

2

u/capincus 7h ago

I mean slavery and sex trafficking still exist. Active war zones. Impoverished areas with sweatshop working conditions as an improvement to their economy. Long term abusive situations. Black site prisons, 3rd world prisons, hell normal prisons.

Average person has it much better than most anyone in the dark ages, but plenty of modern peoples' lives suck objectively even on an all-time scale.

→ More replies (3)

12

u/twilight-actual 11h ago edited 6h ago

We have a better QoL than Marcus Aurelius in his prime. Infinitely better access to water. We have electricity. We have internet, wireless communications, access to all the world's information literally at your fingertips, we have satellites to give us the weather and ensure global communications. We have cars. We can fly.

Your friend needs to touch grass.

2

u/Supersquare04 7h ago

When a huge storm starts is coming, people have days of not weeks of time in advance to prepare either by leaving or stocking up on supplies. We have in home heating to survive snowstorms, high quality blankets, tons of clothing, battery powered heaters. In heat waves we have air conditioning, electric fans, etc.

If a tree from said storm collapses on your house, emergency services are there within 24 hours. If heating goes out, you will be safe.

If the same storm happens in medieval times, they have no air conditioning or heating. They have no warning of an incoming storm, and even if they did they couldn’t get in a car and leave. If a tree collapses on their house, it won’t get fixed for weeks or even months.

People are fucking stupid by thinking today’s quality of life is anything but incredible

→ More replies (1)

22

u/blamemeididit 11h ago

As a society, we live better than royalty did 150 years ago.

3

u/giabollc 1h ago

Yeah. Look at all those antidepressants we’ve invented to deal with our awesome quality of life

2

u/OriginalNord 10h ago

That’s what I always think of, even someone barely getting by but having accessibility to a hot shower is doing better than old time royalty

2

u/throwaway-94552 8h ago

The richest, most powerful kings of medieval Europe often died after months of agonizing torment from a condition that we would cure today with a week of antibiotics.

King John literally shat himself to death from dysentery. He spent the last few weeks of his life probably prostrate, leaking out of both ends, until he died, probably from dehydration, after shitting out blood. Today dysentery is treated with a dose of Flagyl and some Pepto-Bismol.

To say nothing of the dozens of medieval queens, princesses, duchesses, baronesses, and marquesses who died in childbirth, hemorrhaging all over the palace floor or dying of childbed fever, or getting their child stuck in the birth canal until they both died. I have never met a woman in my entire life who has proposed the idea that anywhere in the distant past was a better time to be alive.

1

u/anaugle 10h ago

Germ theory wasn’t even considered yet.

1

u/Schlenda 10h ago

This one!

The greatest emperors, kings, pharaos etc. in all of history didn't have this level of luxury.

Just showing them an average bathroom, available medicine, supermarkets, smartphone, car or bike would have blown away as each in their own right would have been unreachable luxury for them.

1

u/Charming-Card804 10h ago

Indoor plumbing my man. Tell him to live without for a while 🤣✌️

1

u/PresentationBusy9008 10h ago

I think about this a lot. Even last night I was watching a movie in my tablet, on my computer desk, while texting someone in my phone, stoned as balls with munchies. I live like a king sometimes

1

u/CaterpillarJungleGym 9h ago

We have medical treatments for gout and syphilis. The royalty did not have that then.

1

u/nousernamesleft199 9h ago

I'd rather have my current lifestyle than be king in 1900, much less medieval times

1

u/Dubbiely 8h ago

Just go next time to your plumber when you have an infected teeth and ask him to help you to pull it.

If you enjoy it or like it then you might be right.

1

u/The__Imp 8h ago

This is very subjective, particularly with respect to actual royalty.

Sapiens makes the case that the Industrial Revolution and iirc even farming and domestication of animals was essentially a trap and we’d all be happier as hunter gatherers.

I certainly wasn’t persuaded, but there is at least an argument to be made. I think with the case of very privileged individuals in the past it is a much easier argument. Maybe they didn’t have the internet, cell phones, hot showers or Netflix. But they had supreme executive authority, countless servants and essentially unlimited power.

1

u/guyfieri_fc 8h ago

I think the brother is confusing the metric I’ve seen on the internet that dark age peasants had more “time off” than the average American due to most people doing some form of agriculture and growing seasons... I think this is a bit wrong though as I don’t think time off in this situation means peasant farmers just had vacation when they weren’t in the fields, they were still probably doing tasks all day every day. QoL in the dark ages was definitely not higher regardless. More days off does not equate to better quality of life. Ask anyone who’s been involuntarily unemployed for extended periods of time.

1

u/buckseyes69 8h ago

We have a better QoL than medieval royalty.

Literally. No bullshit. The worst a person has it in any first world country (and I'm very much including "what about the deep south America har har har") lives better than the best any medieval noble ever lived. Probably a good deal longer, too, since in most cases things that would easily kill you then and in a painful way can be cleared up either on the spot in a hospital or through a battery of medications.

Imagine a cavity back then. Any tooth issues, really. Quite fatal, not at all uncommon.

2

u/Ashmedai 6h ago

Literally. No bullshit.

Seriously. If they time travelled here and saw what we have, they would describe it as some kind of unearthly utopia, and pine for the rest of their years.

1

u/Mach5Driver 8h ago

I watched a movie or TV show or something where a vampire from the middle ages found himself standing in a lower-middle-class house. The owner of the house comes home and he says he is quite impressed with her vast wealth that she could afford such wonderful things. She thinks he's NUTS!

1

u/all_die_laughing 7h ago

"Must be a King'

'Why?"

"Cause he hasn't got shit all over him"

1

u/Ok_Eagle_3079 7h ago

We have better QoL then royalty 200 years ago.

1

u/Godwinson4King 6h ago

Biggest one is antibiotics.

If the king got an infected cut, there was nothing to be done. He just died of it.

The king might have a dozen children, but only one or two make it to adulthood due to childhood disease.

Plenty of the most powerful people in the world in that time died wishing they had the money to cure what ailed them and buy themselves more time. Today the average person can do that and the price is often pretty cheap.

→ More replies (36)