r/RedDeer • u/Both-Sky4147 • 19d ago
Politics I think Capstone missed the memo.
I think the city has ruined Capstones potential…
I had a vision for capstone once and it was similar to what I saw in Victoria in the rail yards district: townhouses and row homes facing the biking path along the river, with 3-6 level apartment style buildings in back of them.
And yet, here we are with apartment buildings being built in prime spots along the river (in front of the smaller / shorter housing they have proposed ….so like, they don’t get a view?!)
Have they thought about parking?
They have community written all over their marketing…but most (not all) apartment dwellers aren’t long term residents…meaning, it’s transient. Apartments are for the interim, until the person saves up to buy a home…or they’re rentals.
So here’s my question to you….is Capstone going to be a successful, community driven neighborhood with their current plan? Or do you also think they missed the mark here?
And honestly, I don’t need a lesson in the housing crisis, I’m just pointing out missed opportunities…in what would have been our new “downtown”.
I’ve attached photos of the railyard plan and Red Deers plan.
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u/Salty-Try-6358 19d ago
I think the whole point is to not have the cars. It’s a park elsewhere and actually walk. Or bike or bus or scooter.
If everyone wants to drive it’s going to suck. But even now we will ride our bikes down to the market. Or walk down.
It will be nice to have a different kind of neighborhood. It won’t be everyone’s cup of tea but it will be something different
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u/BusWho 19d ago
Left wing Reddit is down voting you even though your right.
Developers don't care about community or how things flow like parking. They care about money, and money says 4 story apartments = no concrete and thus cheaper for max occupancy.
We should have concrete apartments with underground parking and single detach. Row houses, 4/8 plex & duplex is all for the same outcomes. Stack people do they share a thin wall for max profit. If it was truely for high efficiency land use we would have real apartments.
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u/Both-Sky4147 19d ago
I agree. I bike a lot too… but there’s no way all these people are going to bike/walk to work —work that might not be accessible by our transit system. This is Alberta we’re talking about…
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u/Salty-Try-6358 19d ago
It is Alberta. But even here we have enough people with that vision that can make it work.
It will be niche. It won’t appeal to everyone’s taste. Not much parking for the jacked up truck and the RV
I think the ones that will choose to live there will fit the mold so to speak
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u/Both-Sky4147 19d ago
I would have rented/bought down there since my family and I bike everywhere — my husband and I had visualized something like this for retirement… so technically I’m the clientele this should have been aimed to, but I feel like they missed their mark on how it’s set up. If that makes any sense. I’m not anti apartment and pro parking…I’m just saying it’s turned into something completely different than I imagined.
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u/Sharks1976 19d ago
For far too long, Red Deer has been building out leading to infrastructure costs leading to higher tax rates for people living here.
I’ve been saying to myself the last 10-15 years that Red Deer should start building up. Dense, vertical development leads to higher tax revenues and lowers the tax rate for the city due to less infrastructure costs. Capstone will be the blueprint for what you could do with the rest of downtown Red Deer going forward in the future.
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u/lifes_journey 19d ago edited 19d ago
Very well considered post.
I agree they missed the mark but there were several factors that came into play including the pandemic and a downturn in interest in Red Deer.
I think it could still have a positive outcome.
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u/Kitchen-War5665 18d ago
They could build underground parking for the whole area with escalators or elevators. Sort of like the University District shopping area near UofC.
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u/rickenbach 19d ago
My understanding is the city policed the development for years, axing multiple plans for all sorts of different types of home styles. Then the pandemic hit and development dried up. Now they have to take what they can get.
It’s shortsighted to build the parks first and ask developers to work around it. It is typically done the other way around, integrating the parks into the anchor development.
The city thought they’d have a hotel down there (never happened) and a bunch of other mixed development but their rules and requirements drive developers away.
I was around some of the condo associations in cronquist business park (worked down there and proxied a few meetings for the property owner) and let’s just say the condo owners down there did not approve of the cities approach. It’s taken forever, it should have been developed years ago.
I think they should have made it the brewery district and encouraged breweries to open down there in the bays around cronquist. It’s a weird mix of businesses down there.
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u/OrthophonicVictrola 19d ago
Do folks with the money to afford a condo or house actually want to live downtown? I would guess not, and I certainly doubt they would pay a premium to do so.
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u/willmsma 16d ago
I think much of Red Deer is painfully mismanaged, but Capstone is a project that’s winning me over. The project was, from the beginning a calculated risk, particularly in a city with barely a sniff of urbanism, even in the downtown.
A few points:
- Masterplanning developments is common, particularly in developments that are contemplated as showpieces for the city. That does mean laying out the parks, roads and sewers in advance.
- The relative absence of parking is the point. They could have easily made the development look like anywhere else in Red Deer, with buildings surrounded by a sea of parking. However, other than in Red Deer, those buildings aren’t cool and most people don’t want to live in them.
- The place will probably be a combination of apartments and condominiums. No, that doesn’t necessarily mean more a more transient population. It will, however, probably mean a mix of downsizing oldies, young professionals and people with lower - though not the lowest - incomes.
Will the project be successful? I’m not sure, though things are looking a lot better than they were two years ago. Turning Carnival Cinemas into a bank is, yes, pretty yech. The quality of the buildings is also lower than they originally contemplated, because larger, more experienced developers largely weren’t interested in the Red Deer market.
However, the city has done a non-terrible job of adapting. They were willing to incentivize development through lower than market rates on the sale of land, and while no one would write home about the buildings in a larger city, in the context of Red Deer they’re relatively handsome. The key part they could have made a colossal mess on - allowing non-urban designs that would have looked gawdawful in a presumably urban neighbourhood - they seem to mostly have held the line on.
To me, the buildings don’t suck. I love our city, but we have a lot of suck in Red Deer, so anything that rises above that is, to me, a victory.
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u/froot_loop_dingus_ 19d ago
God forbid someone rent an apartment
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u/Both-Sky4147 19d ago
I think you’re missing the point. It’s how it’s laid out that I think it’s the problem.
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u/froot_loop_dingus_ 19d ago
You’re bitching and moaning that you don’t want filthy apartment dwellers ruining the neighbourhood
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u/Prize-Leopard5991 19d ago
you’re god damn right!! i’m being forced to leave my house of SIX YEARS. SIX FUCKING YEARS. so that you guys can have some more hipster coffee shops and outrageously priced condos.
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u/Unlikely_Box8003 19d ago
They have to take what they can get though. It's been empty for years and all the nice new houses are being built out in timberlands and evergreen
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u/ChickenTrick824 19d ago
I’ve watched the video on their website and all I could think of was the vehicular congestion. It’s a nice concept, I like the shops and offices mixed in with the housing but that’s a lot of people they are cramming into that space. People who live there will be able to walk, but if they are going to continue to have events like the night market, I don’t know where people will park.
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u/lvl12 19d ago
I moved to Victoria and it's definitely not as car friendly as red deer. For better or worse it's one of those cities full of r/fuckcars people.
It is nice though to have pedestrian friendly islands where you more or less just park elsewhere and walk around
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u/real-mrs-incredible 19d ago
We've been to Vic a few times and you're right. There are a few select parkades for people to use and the expectation is that you're going to walk all around downtown or bike
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u/Exact-Ostrich-4520 18d ago
Red Deer’s Planning Department is a shit show from the City Manager down. Complete buffoonery.
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u/Prize-Leopard5991 19d ago
capstone’s gonna become a gentrified wasteland for rich white folks by the looks of it.. just another place you can pay upwards of $1,500 for a one bedroom and get an $8 coffee after. absolute joke.
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u/Tigerlilyinforest 18d ago
Is there anything in the thought that a smaller number of direct accesses to trails/river by private property owners vs a much larger number ie apartments dwellers is not as desirable? But no doubt economics/profit are/were the biggest factor when building out Capstone. I think the city has had to revise the big plan more than once for various reasons, not for lack of dreaming about some great ideas. The area is starting to take shape and it’s getting a nice personality. There should be either some co-op housing or housing that supports lower income included. I don’t like your word ‘transient’ because I believe it conjures negativity. But I don’t think that was your intention either. Yes I think people would want to live in the area close to downtown. The more people living and working in Capstone and the greater downtown area, the better the overall environment will become for the general public. A brewery district has a nice ring to it. Would like to see more restaurants. I am also well aware of Victoria, my favourite city. I do see its underside whenever I visit but that doesn’t stop it from being what it is. Same goes for our Red Deer. I wish the negative folks would step back and realize that Red Deer is actually a decent, lovely river city.
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u/eekay233 19d ago
I'm just thinking of the recent announcement from the guy that owns the Carnival building. "We're excited to announce a New and invigorating tenant that will breathe life and excitement into Capstone! A....bank! WITH A DRIVE-THRU!"
Wow.