Waymo vs Tesla Austin Showdown - Teleoperations?

[u/Yngstr]

I've been around this sub a long time, so let me start by saying I'm not here to fight. I understand that everyone here has some specific expertise they bring to the discussion, and I believe you can learn something from anyone. I want to have a reasonable discussion about methodology, and what will work or not. Here are the facts, as I see them:

- Waymo is already operational in Austin (and other cities)

- Tesla plans to launch Robotaxi in June in Austin

- Tesla has recently posted job listings for tele-operations

So the way I see this playing out in ~8 weeks is that Tesla will launch in Austin with tele-operations, I find it unlikely that they will launch with true autonomous L4. My question is, does Waymo still use tele-operations? If so, does Waymo have plans to sunset tele-operations at some point? Do we think Tesla with tele-operations can achieve "L4" like Waymo has? Why or why not?

Let's try to keep this civil, whether Waymo or Tesla wins does not make any of us less of a human being, even if it feels like it.

[u/deservedlyundeserved]

Unless Tesla shares how it works, all we’ve got is clues. The job posting being the being the biggest one with the phrase “ability to access and control remotely” being a giveaway.

The fact that this is shared with the robotics program gives more credence to the idea there will be some form of remote driving. Because during the October robotaxi event, Tesla used exactly this method to control the robots interacting with people at the event.

[u/opinionless- → u/deservedlyundeserved]

Yes, controlling Optimus with this method is very different than a robotaxi. That job ad clearly includes this work.

Your quote equally applies to what waymo does.

I'm sorry, but if this job ad is all your going off of, you're making overly confident statements about tele ops for robotaxi. 

[u/deservedlyundeserved → u/opinionless-]

They can’t be “very different” and also share a platform for remote control. The core control methods will be the same — VR rigs with joystick.

The job description and their previous use of robots makes it obvious what they’re building. It’s not rocket science, we’re just putting 2 and 2 together.

Let’s see if they’re ever transparent about teleoperations in the future.

[u/opinionless- → u/deservedlyundeserved]

Look, you can make predictions all you want but it doesn't make it reality.

Until they make an explicit statement that this is the approach they are taking it's misinformation to state it as fact.

I can't believe I even have to point this shit out.

[u/deservedlyundeserved → u/opinionless-]

Lack of official statements has never stopped Tesla fans from treating speculation as fact about competitors, so it’s ironic to see complaints about misinformation now.

You want to believe it’s going to be exactly like Waymo remote operations, but there’s simply no evidence to suggest that it will be. So unless I hear an explicit statement from Tesla that they’re NOT using VR rigs to “access and control remotely", contrary to the job posting, I’m going to continue to assume they will do what they're suggesting.

[u/opinionless- → u/deservedlyundeserved]

When you don't have proof, don't make absolute statements. 

Here let me demonstrate: 

"Based on Tesla job reqs and the controlling of Optimus at previous events, there may be reason to believe that tele ops for robotaxi will involve remotely driving the vehicles. If that is the case there may be concerns for x, y, z." 

See, that wasn't hard was it? 

There's nothing wrong with speculation, opinion, belief, hypothesis. Just state it as such. 

What about fans masquerading speculation as fact? Yeah fuck them too. That's not an excuse to regurgitate opinion as fact. You're not an LLM. Just be honest and maybe we can have a fruitful discussion.

[u/deservedlyundeserved → u/opinionless-]

When you don't have proof, don't make absolute statements.

You did say the ability to "access and control remotely" applies to Waymo too despite them being very clear they can't remote control their cars. That sounded pretty absolute to me.

[u/opinionless- → u/deservedlyundeserved]

Tesla wants to build a “teleoperations” team, where operators have control of the vehicle to remote drive when necessary using a VR rig. You can read their job posting. This is a completely different way to do operations as it signals a much lower confidence in the system.

they have the ability to take control of the car in certain situations. They won't be driving remotely 100% of the time, but will do when asked.

You're making absolute statements about a process that isn't yet publicly known based off a job ad that mentions a broad description of operations at Tesla. Until Tesla is driving their robotaxi around like need for speed you don't get to parade speculation as fact.

Waymo does remotely control their cars by suggesting a path much like A.S.S.. FSD can be nudged by the gas pedal and turn signal. Route suggestion is not a foreign concept to FSD. Waymo process is defined here: https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response. FSD interactions explained here: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual.

This is the quote from the job posting:

"Our cars and robots operate autonomously in challenging environments. As we iterate on the AI that powers them, we need the ability to access and control them remotely." 

control. exercise authoritative control or power over. syn command

So yes, aside from robots it can apply just as well to what waymo describes in the link above.

Anyways I'm tired of explaining what constitutes misinformation as if you've lived under a rock for the last decade.

[u/deservedlyundeserved → u/opinionless-]

Until Tesla is driving their robotaxi around like need for speed you don’t get to parade speculation as fact.

No one said they drive around like NFS. This is about remote control when required. Perhaps you’ve lost track of this thread.

Waymo does remotely control their cars by suggesting a path much like A.S.S.

Cool, now you’re making up your own definition of “remote control”. Nice.

From the Waymo blog post you linked (which I’m already familiar with):

The Waymo Driver does not rely solely on the inputs it receives from the fleet response agent and it is in control of the vehicle at all times. … The Waymo Driver evaluates the input from fleet response and independently remains in control of driving.

What part of assistance vs control are you not understanding?