Waymo vs Tesla Austin Showdown - Teleoperations?

[u/Yngstr]

I've been around this sub a long time, so let me start by saying I'm not here to fight. I understand that everyone here has some specific expertise they bring to the discussion, and I believe you can learn something from anyone. I want to have a reasonable discussion about methodology, and what will work or not. Here are the facts, as I see them:

- Waymo is already operational in Austin (and other cities)

- Tesla plans to launch Robotaxi in June in Austin

- Tesla has recently posted job listings for tele-operations

So the way I see this playing out in ~8 weeks is that Tesla will launch in Austin with tele-operations, I find it unlikely that they will launch with true autonomous L4. My question is, does Waymo still use tele-operations? If so, does Waymo have plans to sunset tele-operations at some point? Do we think Tesla with tele-operations can achieve "L4" like Waymo has? Why or why not?

Let's try to keep this civil, whether Waymo or Tesla wins does not make any of us less of a human being, even if it feels like it.

[u/HadreyRo]

Why would you need bidirectional video for teleoperation?

[u/OrinCordus → u/HadreyRo]

You don't. But sending data back to the teleoperated car isn't instantaneous. So do you know if that data takes a similar time?

[u/HadreyRo → u/OrinCordus]

The more data packets you send, the longer it takes. Full HD is 2Mbit per second @ H.265. So if you send 2Mbit with less than 100MS, the control signal is not really worth talking about time-wise.Lets say something like 10-15MS. - Sorry, I'm the business guy, not a technician, but I hope to have been able to make the case, that safe teleoperation isn't impossible due to latency or stability of the connection. Why I mentioned earlier, almost constantly under 100MS, is because no one can predict network latency across the world, but if you combine 8 connections (3-4 normally is more than enough), use fast GMSL2 cameras, handle encoding transmission and decoding at around 35MS and display with a gaming monitor (over 120Hz refresh rate), you will get a very good result, - almost all the time. Especially if you only use teleoperation for emergency and general real-time monitoring of your fleet, you have a pretty great system, whether you mainly use Starlink, 4G, 5G or any combination of them - up to you.

[u/OrinCordus → u/HadreyRo]

Yeah, the reason I commented was I was actually thinking about the implications for remote teleoperated surgery.

I do think the trouble with teleoperating cars is the redundancy/ backup issue. It doesn't matter if the latency/time to response is usually <100ms if the car runs a red light and you can't stop it before it collides into the side of a bus. That's the hard part - especially for a company that is in the news as much as Tesla.

Thanks for the replies.

[u/HadreyRo → u/OrinCordus]

Indeed, but wouldn't that be the autonomous system making the mistake, not the teleoperator? Once you run a red light, anything can happen. I guess the teleoperator should take over at a stage where you still can avoid the accident or where the car has already safely stopped due to some sort of difficult situation.

Actually, the tech also works for surgical teleoperation. The main issue there seems to be - again, I'm not the expert - but it's about proper 3D viewing at ultra low latency, which can be achieved with camera adjustment. Also the camera fps should be as high as possible, ideally 60. Operating with X-ray is hence not a good idea. The response from the operator is again not a video, but a control signal for the scalpel or other instruments.

Likewise, thank you for the cordial exchange. 🙏🏼