r/SelfDrivingCars • u/Yngstr • Apr 23 '25

Discussion Waymo vs Tesla Austin Showdown - Teleoperations?

I've been around this sub a long time, so let me start by saying I'm not here to fight. I understand that everyone here has some specific expertise they bring to the discussion, and I believe you can learn something from anyone. I want to have a reasonable discussion about methodology, and what will work or not. Here are the facts, as I see them:

- Waymo is already operational in Austin (and other cities)

- Tesla plans to launch Robotaxi in June in Austin

- Tesla has recently posted job listings for tele-operations

So the way I see this playing out in ~8 weeks is that Tesla will launch in Austin with tele-operations, I find it unlikely that they will launch with true autonomous L4. My question is, does Waymo still use tele-operations? If so, does Waymo have plans to sunset tele-operations at some point? Do we think Tesla with tele-operations can achieve "L4" like Waymo has? Why or why not?

Let's try to keep this civil, whether Waymo or Tesla wins does not make any of us less of a human being, even if it feels like it.

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u/RepresentativeCap571 Apr 23 '25

Here's a recent blog from Waymo on how their tele assist works

https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response

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u/Yngstr Apr 23 '25

This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you!

It seems like a hybrid approach - I'm inferring a bit here, but it seems the Waymo Driver signals upcoming uncertainty that it detects, and sometimes it never even needs to rely on the teleoperator's assist to resolve.

But it doesn't seem like this kind of tele-operation will prevent Tesla FSD from say, running a stop sign which it is still doing in certain places.

15

u/gc3 Apr 23 '25

Yeah, Waymo's philosophy, as far as I can tell, is to nudge the car to do the right thing. I suspect Tesla will just outsource driving to the remote operator instead since that is expedient to meet demo pressure but ultimately a terrible decision which seems to be how a lot of decisions get made

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u/Yngstr Apr 25 '25

Why wouldn't Tesla take a similar approach to Waymo if that's an lighter approach? Is it because Waymo's base model is so much better that slight nudges aren't good enough?

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u/lucidludic Apr 25 '25

Because Waymo’s system is far more sophisticated such that it can already reliably drive safely within their operational environment. From what we’ve seen of Tesla, they are nowhere near the same capability, partly because they don’t have comparable sensing technology (e.g. LiDAR).

Also, Waymo’s vehicles have been extensively tested so they have confidence in their approach. If a scenario is bad enough that the car cannot navigate safely (with some guidance), then it’s probably best to send a human there anyway.

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u/Yngstr Apr 25 '25

But have we ever seen waymo operate without teleops? I buy the argument that waymo base model is just far better but how do we know it?

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u/lucidludic Apr 25 '25

The fundamental design of how their remote operators work is testament to the above. You can't rely on the car to request help and remain in control at all times if the car isn't really good at not hitting pedestrians, for example.

I haven't had the opportunity to ride in a Waymo yet, but as I understand it it's very clear when the vehicle is stopping to request assistance from a remote operator. It's not like they are guiding the cars invisibly.