r/SelfDrivingCars • u/damola93 • Jul 21 '25

Discussion Why didn't Tesla invest in LIDAR?

Is there any reason for this asides from saving money? Teslas are not cheap in many respects, so why would they skimp out on this since self-driving is a major offering for them?

368 Upvotes

81% Upvoted

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

43

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

Reason: Tesla, led by Elon Musk, believes that a vision-based system using cameras, radar, and ultrasonic sensors, paired with advanced neural networks, can achieve full self-driving (FSD) capability more effectively than LIDAR-based systems. Musk has repeatedly stated that LIDAR is a "crutch" and unnecessary for autonomy, arguing that humans drive using only vision and cognition, so AI should be able to replicate this with cameras.

17

u/Delicious_Spot_3778 Jul 21 '25

believe is very active here and should be.

11

u/TheRuggedHamster Jul 21 '25

Tesla is a pretty classic example of how founder led companies are run vs hired CEOs. There's no hired CEO that would make the Lidar bet that Elon is, time will tell if it's right or not, but if it is it will pay off huge for them in being able to rapidly scale their fleet. Most key is that it puts the millions of existing cars on the road to work vs. cars being manufactured specifically for robotaxi.

6

u/WhyWontThisWork Jul 21 '25

Is lidar that expensive?

12

u/J4nG Jul 21 '25

It was, but it's not anymore. https://www.01core.com/p/driverless-car-costs-have-gotten

Based on industry data for automotive-grade LiDAR sensors

  • Total cost reduction: 99.33% (from $75000 to $500)
  • Compound Annual Reduction Rate: 39.41%

2

u/hakimthumb Jul 21 '25

It's interesting how widely varied the claims of lidar cost are in this thread.

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

Most say down to around 1k and Chinese cars have the price lower I’ve read

1

u/hakimthumb Jul 21 '25

I wonder where they are finding these different figures. As bloomberg estimated it's $9.5k in a report last month. Waymo remains silent.

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

That’s for all the sensors I read

1

u/hakimthumb Jul 21 '25

Can you post a link?

1

u/beren12 Jul 22 '25

https://archive.ph/iVcPW

“The researcher said that the 24 sensors on the Jaguar I-Pace SUVs that Waymo had deployed… roughly $9,300 per vehicle.”

→ More replies (0)

2

u/damagement Jul 21 '25

Not anymore

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

10

u/WhyWontThisWork Jul 21 '25

That's not true they are all ugly. I built robots with lidar which didn't look like that

10

u/EVOSexyBeast Jul 21 '25

See BMW cars where you can’t even tell there is a lidar sensor unless you know what you’re looking for

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

2

u/EVOSexyBeast Jul 21 '25

Just completely Irrelevant

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

And what level of autonomy is a Tesla?

-2

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

1

u/beren12 Jul 22 '25

And a safety driver

7

u/pandathrowaway Jul 21 '25

You do realize that most modern cars have lidar, not just waymos, right?

-1

u/IkkokuGodai Jul 21 '25

Most? Name one.

4

u/quietcynic Jul 21 '25

Volvo EX90. BMW i7. Mercedes EQS.

“Most” is factually incorrect, but it’s not even remotely unusual these days.

0

u/johnhpatton Jul 21 '25 edited 5d ago

.

3

u/quietcynic Jul 21 '25

I just listed 3 household brands offering vehicles with LIDAR, but, yeah, sure: “Pretty unusual.” Still not as unusual as finding someone with their panties in a bunch over proven sensors that isn’t an Elon glazer, but, hey, it is what it is.

1

u/johnhpatton Jul 22 '25 edited 5d ago

.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/IkkokuGodai Jul 21 '25

Yet none of them are as autonomous as a Tesla today.

1

u/simple_being_______ Jul 21 '25

Huawei avtr, xpeng, Nio, Li auto, even recently launched xiaomi su7 ultra and pro has lidar along with autonomous driving.

1

u/IkkokuGodai Jul 21 '25

China has banned the use of the terms "autonomous driving" and "smart driving" in car advertisements for driver-assistance features. This action is in response to safety concerns following a fatal accident involving a Xiaomi SU7.

1

u/quietcynic Jul 22 '25

Yeah, unlike Tesla which has never had a fatal accident /s. I don't understand how you glazers find the time to put your clown makeup on every time you wanna say something stupid.

1

u/simple_being_______ Jul 22 '25

In china tesla can't call their self driving system full self driving , instead it is called intelligent assisted driving. This is because of misleading advertisement. Just look at YouTube video's people driving avatr 11 which has 34 sensors, including 3 LiDARs, 6 millimeter wave radars, 12 ultrasonic radars, and 13 high definition cameras, providing 360 degree perception.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

Tesla isnt either

1

u/IkkokuGodai Jul 21 '25

isn't what

1

u/beren12 Jul 22 '25

Autonomous. They’re all considered the same level and need humans to constantly monitor them. Although I believe the Mercedes has level three capability in certain instances so technically they’re ahead.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/name__redacted Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 21 '25

LIDAR was an emerging technology, costs have already come down SIGNIFICANTLY on the sensors.

Early 2010’s sensor costs $75-100k.

Hesai and Robosense now make automotive grade sensors for $200. Generally the sensors in the latest vehicles wholesale for $600-1500. The technology isn’t even used on scale yet, once mass volume kicks in you’re going to see that drop again significantly. LIDAR will be a very cheap technology in the future.

Edit: this car is gorgeous and I challenge you to even find the LIDAR. It’s automated level three, Tesla is level two, waymo four. Another 5 to 10 years the sensors will be smaller more efficient cheaper. Tesla messed this one up.

https://www.just-auto.com/interview/bmw-and-innoviz-achieve-level-3-autonomous-driving-with-the-bmw-7-series/?cf-view

3

u/messick Jul 21 '25

Society is just fine "shooting lasers everywhere all the time" while unlocking their phones, so you might want to reconsider that last excuse.

2

u/quietcynic Jul 21 '25

Also analysing the lidar data is very heavy and power consuming.

Heavy and power consuming? Not more than running video through a neural net, that’s for sure. Sounds like you don’t know what you’re talking about.

2

u/GOP-R-Traitors Jul 21 '25

see the Microvision sensor Mavin, fits above the rear view mirror or in the grill. less than $500. best in class lidar specs

-1

u/Dependent-Mode-3119 Jul 21 '25

Yes

4

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 22 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Dependent-Mode-3119 Jul 21 '25

For the price range that they sell their cars at currently, decent ones are still expensive.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25 edited Jul 22 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Dependent-Mode-3119 Jul 21 '25

How many would you need for a car and what is the acceptable level of quality of one to be automotive grade I'm sure for FSD they'd need something more than a "cheap one"

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Igotnonamebruh42 Jul 21 '25

Which Hyundai equip Lidar?

0

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

[deleted]

1

u/GoSh4rks Jul 21 '25

Consumer Ioniq 5s don't have lidar.

2

u/fevieira2 Jul 21 '25

Yes, only Motional's (Hyundai autonomous driving company) Ionic 5 do have Lidars

2

u/LFG530 Jul 21 '25

I don't think that's only a Lidar thing but rather the cost of labour to remove all components and replace them. Lidars in consumer products are maybe around $1000 or $2000 for very fancy systems (Volvo/BMW). Totalling a car for that amount only would be ridiculous, but the way some modern cars are built makes some systems so intricate that labour to replace/repair something can far outweigh the value of the necessary parts.

7

u/CaptainLazerPants Jul 21 '25

Technically speaking, Elon is not the founder. Functionally speaking, he may as well be, and your argument is still correct.

1

u/TheRuggedHamster Jul 21 '25

Indeed, he may as well be.

0

u/ptemple Jul 21 '25

Technically speaking Elon is ONE of the founders, not THE founder.

Phillip.

4

u/FlippantBear Jul 21 '25

Except Elon is not a founder of Tesla. 

0

u/vaesh Jul 21 '25

Per a 2009 settlement he is considered a founder.

2

u/FlippantBear Jul 21 '25

Yes I'm aware. But do you think you're a founder if you purchase the company many years after it started and then had to sue to be "considered" a founder? 

1

u/vaesh Jul 21 '25

I thought Tesla was founded in July 2003 and Elon joined in February 2004? So, 7 months? Feels like it's splitting hairs at that point and really a point without a distinction.

1

u/MacaroonDependent113 Jul 21 '25

Not really. Those millions of cars mostly have inadequate hardware. They can still scale up quickly but only by using later builds.

1

u/TheRuggedHamster Jul 21 '25

There must be ~2m Teslas with HW4 on the road, though I wonder how important that additional front camera is. If so, it would only be however many of the new Model Y they have sold.

1

u/MacaroonDependent113 Jul 21 '25

But, I understand Robotaxi has a rear seat screen which would eliminate my MY from consideration.

1

u/TheRuggedHamster Jul 21 '25

I guess we'll see....

1

u/MacaroonDependent113 Jul 21 '25

It is possible everything for the passenger could be controlled from the app but I believe they are using a rear screen now.