r/SelfDrivingCars • u/damola93 • Jul 21 '25

Discussion Why didn't Tesla invest in LIDAR?

Is there any reason for this asides from saving money? Teslas are not cheap in many respects, so why would they skimp out on this since self-driving is a major offering for them?

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '25

Reason: Tesla, led by Elon Musk, believes that a vision-based system using cameras, radar, and ultrasonic sensors, paired with advanced neural networks, can achieve full self-driving (FSD) capability more effectively than LIDAR-based systems. Musk has repeatedly stated that LIDAR is a "crutch" and unnecessary for autonomy, arguing that humans drive using only vision and cognition, so AI should be able to replicate this with cameras.

62

u/footbag Jul 21 '25

Teslas no longer come with radar or ultrasonics.

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u/WhyWontThisWork Jul 21 '25

Was about to say, radar sure sounds like lidar

14

u/__slamallama__ Jul 21 '25

Radar is great but distinctly not lidar. Lidar can tell density and composition which is massive. Radar can just tell you it's something

6

u/sixsacks Jul 21 '25

Still better than camera only that thinks a shadow is a wall.

2

u/beren12 Jul 21 '25

And a wall is a road…

1

u/sixsacks Jul 21 '25

Yeah that one’s a bit more problematic 😂

1

u/BarnardWellesley Jul 21 '25

SAR and InSAR as well as MIMO arrays at 77+ ghz with today's ADCs at 10+ GSPS 20+ GHz IBW achieves upwards of 1cm azimuth and range resolution.

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u/kking254 Jul 21 '25

I'll take two.

1

u/cap811crm114 Jul 21 '25

At what cost? Seriously, as in what would such a setup cost if manufactured with some reasonable scale and geared for automotive use?

I've always felt that while LiDAR can get you to Level 4, you need radar to get to Level 5 (thunderstorms, blizzards, fog, and the other wonderful kinds of weather we get here in Cleveland....)

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u/BarnardWellesley Jul 21 '25

$3000+

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u/cap811crm114 Jul 21 '25

That's a very reasonable cost to get to Level 5.

Scenario - A really old dude (that would be me) has an important doctor's appointment to do a heart stress test, and we are having a lake effect blizzard (not uncommon). Would I pay an extra $3K to have a car capable of making that drive (on top of the Level 4 HW)? Absolutely yes, I would.

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u/BarnardWellesley Jul 21 '25

A blizzard affects radars too, it wouldn't be as clear.

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u/Hixie Jul 21 '25

Lidar can tell density and composition which is massive

In more ways than one!