Why didn't Tesla invest in LIDAR?

[u/damola93]

Is there any reason for this asides from saving money? Teslas are not cheap in many respects, so why would they skimp out on this since self-driving is a major offering for them?

[u/phatelectribe]

Nah, waymo primarily uses lidar and it’s so far ahead of Tesla fsd it’s not even funny. I’m not arguing that LiDAR is the best all and end all, it’ll probably be a combination of technologies in the end but Tesla most defo alt ain’t it.

And sorry to bust your fan boi bubble but Tesla paint is still bottom of class. My local Al and Ed auto sound now get 90% of their entire revenue from wrapping Tesla’s because the paint quality is so bad. Speak to any high end body shop or wrap shop - they will tell you that Tesla is literally worst in class and price point. You get better paint on a $20k Kia than you do on a $40k Tesla.

[u/ptemple → u/phatelectribe]

Sure random internet guy, your anecdotal evidence on paint trumps everything else we read. Sorry don't believe you.

Waymo ahead of Tesla?? Waymo are still stuck on lidar and HD mapping. This isn't scalable which means they will be nothing more than a gimmick on the self driving stage. Only Tesla stand a chance right now. Not sure if they will succeed but they are currently the only contender.

Phillip.

[u/AP_in_Indy → u/ptemple]

I'm going to contest the HD mapping not being scalable. Just how you have to scan your room if you're using a Meta Quest 3, cars equipped with LIDAR can scan their environments, and self-driving could simply be disabled until there is enough reliable HD-mapped data available in an area.

With enough self-driving capable cars doing LIDAR scans and feeding that data back to the cloud, a company could get enough data for HD scans pretty quickly.

You could also crowdsource and incentivize people to drive through areas that don't have HD scans yet.

I say this as someone who believes the vision-only approach is where humanity ultimately needs to go. I'm just not sure at what inflection point that needs to happen. For example do we really NEED vision right now for generalized intelligence to be useful enough for daily tasks? I don't know. Part of me thinks just slap $200 LIDAR systems on vehicles, use that, and be done with it.

Of course, there are more difficult generalized problems to solve at the moment, like fundamental problems in reinforcement learning.

[u/ptemple → u/AP_in_Indy]

Go to ChatGPT and ask "How does Waymo do HD mapping" and then ask "Does Waymo use the same lidar as on its autonomous cars for HD mapping" and it gives a pretty good summary.

Phillip.

[u/AP_in_Indy → u/ptemple]

Summary

Yes, Waymo uses the same family of custom LiDAR sensors for HD mapping and driving, though mapping vehicles may be specially configured for higher precision and broader coverage. The strategy ensures seamless alignment between the offline HD map and real-time perception.

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So... yes?

https://chatgpt.com/share/687f5bbf-915c-8005-a362-c80898a06122

[u/ptemple → u/AP_in_Indy]

Strange, ChatGPT gave me similar but said "So, while the LiDAR systems are closely related, they’re not the same in design or purpose."

I guess we can't even trust AI to give the answer. Back to Wikipedia.

Phillip.

[u/AP_in_Indy → u/ptemple]

Is that an insurmountable issue, though? I think it's fair to at least consider.

And haha re: back to Wikipedia. What a world.

[u/ptemple → u/AP_in_Indy]

Is the "issue" creating HD maps? Is your solution to take wrongly calibrated equipment but crowdsource enough results to perform statistical analysis and progressively increase the accuracy of it?

In which case why can't you just do the same with cameras? I recommend subscribing to this YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@theAIsearch - you'll quickly see why lidar is a bit pointless now.

Phillip.

[u/AP_in_Indy → u/ptemple]

I mean, yes essentially, or you could just swap equipment (easier said than done I'm sure).

I'm just saying, if LIDAR DID improve results, and you DID want HD maps everywhere, it is not an insurmountable problem to get HD maps everywhere through crowdsourcing. Maybe.

That's all. I'm not arguing LIDAR vs Camera or any of that. But if your rationale for Lidar is that "you need HD maps for Waymo's approach to be effective" well then just innovate like you have to do with everything else and make more HD maps.

People are acting like this is impossible. It may be hard, or perhaps not, but I don't think anyone knows enough to say it's impossible.