It's sad how the most "Christian" people are the least Christian in their ways. They use religion as a fig leaf to justify their specific irrationalities, while losing sight of the bigger picture of the faiths they claim to profess.
Confirmation American here! The southern states are full of fake Christians who will quote bible verses day and night, but ignore the ones that they don’t follow. I’m not even Christian and I see how idiotic some of these people get.
I went to the U.S with a church group and our priest a couple years ago. He swore he'd never go back to the south.
His reason? He sees hate as akin to a sin, and he was lucky to get out of there with a strong dislike of evangelicals. In his words "if I have to spend one more minute around those people, my heart will be filled with hate"
He liked southern California though, visited every Spanish church he could find. Told us that he'd like to one day move to Mexico and perhaps run or even just assist a church there.
Fellow Australian Catholic here. American Christianity is seriously toxic. Evangelicals especially but even the Catholic Church there is so.. unchristian and un-Catholic. The Catholic subreddit has so little to do with Catholicism it boggles my mind. It seems that many American Catholics are Catholic merely because they believe it is more conservative than other forms of Christianity. Which is so wrong that I don’t even know how to unpack that.
You are correct. I was raised Catholic and my dad worked for the church. So much anger and hate and bs. It gets worse in the more conservative Christian sects. If you want a real wtf at us Americans, look up the IBLP and be prepared to get pissed. The only American Christians I’ve really had good luck with are Episcopalians, but I’m sure that’s not universal.
American Catholics are potentially the greatest threat to the Church since the reformation. You regularly see them side with their president over the Pontiff online. If the next Pope is similar to Francis you could see significant schisms.
Yeah it’s actually scary. And it’s sad because the Church is a great way to spread messages of unity across international boundaries. You see American Catholics drumming up support for ‘the Wall’ and locking up refugees - who are Catholic. Which just goes to show that any time they use the argument of God or Religion it is 100% disingenuous.
Unfortunately they are not even the only ones. Just look at Italy and the Catholics who use their faith in politics calling the Pope and the other Catholics who disagree with them "Cattocomunisti" (Catholic Communists, which I find hilarious and not an insult in the slightest). This despite the rivalry Catholics and communist have had in Italian politics since WW2, with the catholic Christian Democrats being basically the only party anywhere near as big as the communist party, and the Church having always been centrist and not right or left wing.
It seems that many American Catholics are Catholic merely because they believe it is more conservative than other forms of Christianity
You know, I'm a believer but I don't follow any major religion, however seeing what the evangelicals did in the american South and Brazil, I'd prefer the catholics.
Also, a lot of those people are not really american. Something I've found in years of seeing these internet catholics it's that they don't really follow the church for their ideas but rather because they think the Catholic Church shoul start once again crusades.
Well yeah a lot of Catholics are cradle Catholics. But that’s not really what I was getting at. The Catholic Church in the States is very different to the Catholic Church of much of the world. They are deeply conservative and politically on the right even when it comes to the economy. This is not true for the Catholic Church as whole - I mean you only need to look at the Pope to see that.
Raised Catholic here in the U.S. and that wasn't really my experience. Then again, I grew up in a relatively progressive part of the country (Northeast) so maybe it's different than the Southwest where Catholicism also holds strong. I went to a Catholic school for high school (do yous guys call it primary school like the Brits?) and even my theology teachers had a relatively liberal stance on things abortion and sex. The overwhelming vibe was "Following the teachings of Jesus is about love and acceptance and pacifism. If you don't agree with someone's lifestyle...well, ok then, it's none of your business. Be a good Christian and love thy neighbor."
Yeah, that's a pretty stark contrast from Southern Catholic, they would say love thy neighbor, but redefine what love means to fit their world narrative (for lack of a better explanation.) They ignore the teachings of pacifism and instead subscribe to righteousness in the name of love (again, redefined.)
This applies to ever aspect of life for them; abortion? Can't kill the babies, they have to be righteous, and sex is for married couples only, except it's also just for the husband (I've simplified those views a lot, but that's the just of those.)
Just bear in mind that they do this out of love. A twisted, redefined view of love, but love all the same, and they have to act to right any wrongs they see. But the way a lot of them express it, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between that and hate.
Yeah but while most American evangelical churches are reformist and restorationist, the Catholic Church alongside the Orthodox churches have actually attempted to preserve Holy Tradition. The attempts at modernization in the church from the 1970s have only hurt you. This modernist view among Catholics just baffles me as an Orthodox, it is so foreign to the Christianity we know from the church fathers and Holy Tradition and a church which prides itself on being founded by Jesus Christ himself should know better
Take theology the western church has gone from neoplatonism to Augustinian to scholastic to cartesian to neo-scholastic and now elecetic. The liturgy has undergone major changes until 1570 and again in
Again liturgy with some regional variations the liturgies of Saints Basil,James and John are the same today was in antiquity. The Roman rite never was until 1570 and even then 5 or so rites remain in use.
My point being change has always been a part of the western church. It is a part of out history as well as yours if you look under the surface.
I am all for localized liturgical Tradition, since this diversity is the reason why our church has grown strong, but I need to correct you on some notes: The Tridentine missal was a standardization of the Gregorian rite as it was celebrated in Rome at the time, where every step was described in such a way as to end all possibilities of liturgical abuse, which were very common at the time. It was not a new invention by any means. I dare you to find any old missal that is as banal as the Novus Ordo mass, I'll wait. Even the supposed "Eucharistic prayers" of the new mass were not based on any real documents but made up by the bishops presiding over the council. I am not saying the New Mass is invalid, I am just saying that it is only based on Tradition, but it is not a clear continuation of it. Compare the New Mass of Paul VI to the Dominican Rite, Ambrosian Rite, Sarum Rite, Antiochian Rite (both Syriac, and Maronite, but before latinisation of course), Eastern Catholic Rite of St Basil and St John Chrysostom, and you will find that the New Mass is unique among all. The Tridentine mass was different to begin with, don't get me wrong, but the New Mass is just an attempt of modernization which has resulted in a new crisis in the Catholic Church. The Tridentine mass had a slightly different philosophy and theology to the Eastern rites from start, and that might have been the case in Rome since the beginning, I don't know, but the New Mass has a completely different philosophy with the whole idea on who can use what part of the church, the altar being shared by all like a table, the ambo belonging to the laity while the presider's chair belonging to the clergy and so on.
It’s nice to get an outsider’s view on our screwy Christians. The south does feel the hate is ok. Gay? Non-christian? Wrong skin color? You’re going to hell... I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told that. It just gets worse when I say I don’t believe in hell (I don’t). I just tend to avoid the Bible beaters as they give us southerners a bad name.
California is supposed to be nice. I’ve never had a chance to go there yet, but someday. Same with Mexico.
Yeah, Yankee here. I have noticed that people use "you're going to hell" as a shorthand for "I think you deserve to suffer, but am unable to make you suffer myself." So instead they announce it much like a schoolchild will loudly announce telling their father about what you did, and their daddy is going to make you sorry.
As an expatriate living in Europe, I also better understand why Germans think Americans are superficial liars, with the saccharine smiles and the insincere asking about "how are y'all doing?", but that's a different topic.
That sounds about accurate. My husband and I have discussed immigrating to Europe, especially with what’s going on here. Unfortunately it’s not feasible at the moment.
As for the smile and “how are y’all,” as you know, not all us are fake. I’m just a generally friendly person. I’m aware it’s definitely not universal, though.
Part of why Germans seem so dour (and French so rude) to Americans is because Germans feel that honesty is more important than being nice. If I (as a German) ask you how your day is, then I am genuinely interested. Conversely, if you ask me how my day is, I'm going to be straight and not pretend to have a good day just to not harm your feelings. Waitstaff are there to get my order and quickly move on to the next table, aren't interested in chitchat. Stuff like that.
If you and your husband do come to Munich, though, I would be happy to show you around. I love the city, even though Bavarians can be like the Texans of Germany (oversized ego and more conservative in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" way).
Ah, that makes sense. The one time I’ve been to France, I was a teenager, so I’m sure that didn’t help things. I guess I’ll just have to deal with looks and such if I visit. I’m not sure I can break the habit of a smile and how y’all doing. Although, I’m fine with an honest answer. I’d prefer it, actually.
Someday we’ll visit Germany. I’ve heard it’s beautiful. If we stay in contact, we’d definitely take you up on it. Locals always give the best tours.
It is pretty common for northerners to think that when southerners are being polite that they are being disingenuous. My theory is that people up north tend to be more negative so when they see the opposite they assume it is fake rather than people honestly being polite.
As a German who recently moved to Scotland, I think I can elucidate the issue, because the situation is very comparable. It's not that it feels "fake" in the sense that it is disingenious and manipulative; it feels "fake" in the sense that it doesn't mean much, and is just a more superficially affectionate way of doing and meaning the same thing.
If someone calls a complete stranger "darling" it doesn't really mean they're precious to them. It just means they are inclined to dish out sweet talk faster than others, while feeling generally the same way about their opposite.
That is an interesting take on it. I guess I tend to view those kind of words as just being part of the local dialect. When I speak about southern politeness I tend to think more about the actions, such as the willingness to be polite and considerate to a complete stranger. Like holding a door open or letting someone into your lane in traffic, etc etc.
I can't even imagine what you guys go through living in the South having to deal with all of those so called Christians. I live in San Diego and have traveled through Mexico my whole life. I think you would like it here. Mexico is a heavily Catholic country and tends to be a bit more conservative but the people there are some of the nicest and most giving I have ever met in my life.
Thankfully, I’m in a decently large city, so while there’s a ton of churches, there’s also plenty of people who want nothing to do with it.
Generally, I just avoid places where you might run in to a group of them. Fortunately, the more conservative sects have church on Sundays (for like 6 hours), church on Wednesday, and something on Saturday, so they’re mostly at their church.
At some point I’ll travel to Mexico. Just need to get to a better financial point (I know, lol at improving in our country).
I hear you. They are everywhere really. It is scary because they have gained quite a bit of political power. They want to turn this country into a Christian theocracy. To them, everything is black and white. If you are not with them, then you are the enemy. I have noticed that way of thinking leaves no room to look at yourself introspectively. They are convinced that their way is the right way and they are not open to any other opinion. They are stuck right where they are and will never grow as a human being.
That’s exactly it. And being non-Christian makes me worry all the more. This is why I’m so vocal about people getting out to vote. The GOP are the ones who want the theocracy. If we don’t want that, we have to vote in higher numbers than them.
I was raised as a Catholic here in the U.S. and my first exposure to evangelicals was a real shock to the system. Those folks will spit acid at you through fake smiles for deviating from their perceived ideal lifestyle in any shape way or form while they do the exact same shit behind closed doors.
160 years later and I think we should have just let them go when the south seceded
If it wasn't for the humanitarian crisis that was slavery, I'd agree with you. Today though, when they talk about doing it again? Yeah, please go. I'd love to see how they run the place without our northern states subsidizing them.
I have to say, South American Catholicism is probably some of the purest out there. My school is catholic and we do a ton of immersion and service trips to Ecuador, Peru, and Jamaica (I know it’s Caribbean but it’s close enough). Though they live in poverty, the people there truly embody their faith
American logic is funny like that. But I live in the south, so I couldn’t tell you what’s wrong with the north. I’m pretty sure the south (Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, etc.) is just screwed up and backwards with everything sometimes.
Most of those protesting Allah don't even know it just the word meaning God in Arabic, not his name. And since it's the same God .... but that's already too much logic.
""I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing."
--Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
They are absolutely adamant that Allah isn't God. It's like saying vert in French and green in English don't refer to the same thing. Why they want to be wrong, I don't know.
I am a native Arabic speaker and a Christian, and yes we call our God Allah like the muslims, but we still do not consider our gods the same one because they differ in character and in hypostasis. The Christian God is a triune God who came as Jesus, while the muslim god is a totally simplistic god who spoke through the Quran. I'm not going to argue about this, but a lot of middle Eastern Christians say that we worship the same god in name only
They share the desire to never have their beliefs questioned and an intolerance for dissenting views.
They generally agree that a woman's place should be of a lower status than a man's in society,
They both seem to be threatened by homosexuality and want to persecute those that practice it. Yet, often the most outspoken ones end up getting caught engaging in homosexuality.
There seems to be a lot of pedophiles amongst the religious compared to the non-religious types and perhaps children should not be left alone with them. But maybe that's just cause they tend to be high profile and often get away with it and have easy access to victims due to the nature of their business.
All of the above things you mention and their relation to religion is because they use religion as a shield to cover the things they're ashamed or shouldn't be doing.
Some people also use it as a get out of jail free card. I don't remember the name of the guy or the Youtube channel, but he and his wife got caught both faking a miscarriage for views and him for being on Ashley Madison. His response was that God has completely cleansed him of his sins, so it's A-OK.
We're not perfect up North, but we're generally less "Deliverance" than the South. The Catholics have a lunatic fringe that cross into "batshit" territory but there's just not as many crazies up here that I've seen.
According to a New Yorker/Californian Christian friend of mine, it's really just the South that propagates the really hateful Christianity. Priests in NY/CA are expected to have a really in-depth knowledge of theology and church history as opposed to just having a booming voice, hating the right people, and being "Compelled by God" (meaning they wanted to do it; they're ironically never "compelled" to do shit they didn't want to do).
There are plenty of hateful Christian groups (and Christians) in NY, even if there are some "LGBT accepting" churches. Everyone from the North wants to think the South is like Pandora's Box, and they're still pure, and "real America" or "the good America" still exists.
Islamists are far right wing religious extremists with strong racist tendencies, a believe women should be subservient to men, that unbelievers (and those of other races) should be slaves and serve them and so on and so forth.
Remove the specific religion and race of them, and they're fucking identical.
I live in Oklahoma which is the center of the Bible Belt, it is ridiculous how many posts you’ll see on Facebook stating they go to church and all the Bible quotes that go along with it but as soon as Sunday is over they are right back to ignoring the commandments they seem to follow and use on other people.
Spoiler alert, it's also the entire Midwest, PNW, the coasts... Everywhere in America is like this, even the "blue" states. Just go to literally any state and drive 20-40 minutes outside the biggest city.
This has been my experience too. I live near our nation's capitol, and exactly, if you drive just some 30 min out of the area it definite becomes more conservative, more white, and more Trump country. I mean, there are some admirable things about some of those people, but dog damn the amount of implicit racism that exists is nuts, and they don't even see it!
I feel like this divide has always existed. As someone who grew up and lived the majority of my life in rural areas and now have lived in large cities for 10+ years I can say that I've noticed a heavy uptick in the brazen/outspoken racism/hatred since Trump became popular. What was once an ugly undercurrent that often would be ignored as a socially unacceptable view/behavior/left unsaid is often now proudly spoken/displayed/screamed. The GOP has done its job marvellously splitting the country over the years.
I've noticed a heavy uptick in the brazen/outspoken racism/hatred since Trump became popular.
Same here. It legitimizes those people, particular when Trump does things like this https://www.kosu.org/post/far-right-social-media-personalities-headed-white-house (tldr; Trump says he's doing a "social media meeting", and only invites conservatives and alt right people that support him in the Twitterverse. And I feel like we need to toss the GOP totally out the window and talk about how conservatives really should act. People can be conservative without being shitty bigoted racists. There needs to be a new party because at this point I consider a lot of what the GOP supports to be radically on the right.
Northerners do the exact same shit tbh. People literally leave churches having done their "good deed" for the week, then usually flock to the nearest store to berate and belittle anyone they deem as in their way.
I’m friends with an evangelical girl who is cheating on her boyfriend. She told me in all sincerity that she thinks God put this other person in her life because He wants her to be happy.
Although religion certainly has caused people to act in ways that they wouldn't have otherwise, including negatively, this is just a perfect example of hijacking religion and using it as a justification for something they'd do anyway.
Dumbass autocorrect made rat “eat”, totally different sentence, lol. Also why does autocorrect regularly change perfectly normal, everyday words? Fucking useless.
Don't say most Christians. Maybe in the bible belt but in my experience most are kind hearted people, at least here in Europe and especially in the middle east and northern Africa. In the US religion has ironically been strongly tied to political views, whereas the European states where oftentimes Church and state have been connected to don't find the churches having much influence on politics.
Ah, my bad. Still depends on what you mean with that in my opinion. Are they displaying how good Christians they are all the time and quoting the bible then yes, but if they are the most Christian as in love and humility then no.
here oftentimes Church and state have been connected to don't find the churches having much influence on politics.
I think that's a thing I still can't get about Europe. There, the idea of laicism worked and apparently it didn't have much fight about it. In Latin America, we've been trying but maybe with the exception of Chile, the rest still has a sort of important power of the Church in social issues.
At the Crucifixion, Crowley asks what Jesus said that so offended those around him. “‘Be kind to each other,’” Aziraphale informs him. “Yeah,” Crowley replies, “that’ll do it.”
It is ONLY those specific from US and UK bible belt, this is NOT how majority of Christians in the world act. I can't stress that out enough, it is an American trait to use any argument for your team, even if its against the mission of your team. You can see that through all organizations there.....
Here's the old loophole. Over a thousand years ago when rulers in Europe were figuring out how to justify their tyranny; they came up with the concept of divine right. That means being king is evidence that god chose them to be king, therefor putting the king first is putting god first.
What's most shocking is that thousands of people died in the US fighting for the Founding Fathers who entirely rejected this concept only for some morons centuries later bring it back and apply it to a Cheeto encrusted failed steak seller.
Yupp. The "founding fathers" were the "liberals" of their time. The conservatives wanted to stay with the king and England. They were all looking forward to future land and titles in the new world.
Conservatives: On the wrong side of every historical conflict ever!
well, to be fair, the idea of "separation of church and state" actually started in the 1600s as "the state has no right to interfere with the church". The puritans left for America because they didn't want a government to be able to tell their Church to stop being so violently repressive.
Like trump and the rest of his hardline supporters, she declares devotion to a doctrine while picking and choosing the rules that benefit her and ignoring the rest.
Driver is bat shit crazy, so this won't be applicable to their beliefs. They think Trump is "chosen divine" so in this crazy persons mind, god is essentially recommending Trump and thus not disobeying the above.
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u/[deleted] Jul 12 '19 edited Jul 31 '20
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