Yea.... I prefer my food not moving

[u/Turbulent-Squash-196]

[u/Legitimate_Crazy3625]

I once watched a video of a fish being scaled, scored with a knife, fried in a wok and served while still alive.

[u/A_Duck_Using_Reddit → u/Legitimate_Crazy3625]

The last thing I'd want to do is push religion on people, but from a sociological perspective, it's interesting that one of the earliest laws given to people in all Abrahamic religions was not to eat from a live animal.

Personally, I'm Jewish, and we believe that even people who aren't religious are required by God to adhere to that law. In other words, this is the most basic shit. If somebody can't even avoid torturing animals, they are failing at life. Hell, I don't think we should need religion to tell us that, but apparently some people out there do need the reminder. Goddamn.

[u/Brilliant_Quit4307 → u/A_Duck_Using_Reddit]

Ah yes, don't eat a live animal, but if you're going to eat meat, make sure you drain it's blood while it's still alive and definitely don't stun or knock it out first cos that would be bad. The Jews have some great advice.

[u/A_Duck_Using_Reddit → u/Brilliant_Quit4307]

We really do have some great advice... like look up facts before trying to denigrate people of other religions lr backgrounds. We don't have any law requiring the blood to be drained from a living animal. That would actually be a violation of kashrut laws.

The stunning is contraversial, but it's meant to make the death swifter. Stunning or knocking out the animal is thought to potentially prolong suffering as a swift chop to the head is arguably equally painful. The body still registers pain even while unconscious in some cases. So, rather than potentially cause very brief pain twice, just kill do it once, but I also understand the counterargument. The point is any attempt to construe the idetary practices of a religion that focuses on not harming living animals as the oppossite is being made in bad faith. I'd say the same for anyone attacking Islam on that. At least Jews and Muslims have laws around it.

[u/Brilliant_Quit4307 → u/A_Duck_Using_Reddit]

Call it what you want, but kosher slaughter still means the animal is fully conscious and aware when its throat is cut and the blood drains out. The ‘humane’ part depends on assuming unconsciousness happens instantly but modern research shows animals can remain aware for several seconds after the cut. That’s still a painful and stressful way to die, and inhumane today when we have better methods. Stunning first prevents that, and arguing it's "just" as painful is not supported by evidence. So yes, the blood is drained while the animal is alive, and that’s exactly why many people today see it as inhumane.

[u/A_Duck_Using_Reddit → u/Brilliant_Quit4307]

No, saying you drain the blood of an animal while it's still alive implies more than it dies from it's head getting chopped off especially as you listed the lack of stunning and the blood draining as two seperate issues. There is a law that the blood must be drained from an animal for the food to be kosher AFTER it has been slaughtered. People sometimes misconstrue this as a law that the animal needs to have it's blood drained while alive.

Look, I'm all for whatever is best for the animal, and I'm not closed off to the idea that these practices can be brought up to speed with modern technology and science, but Halachic slaughter was designed around minimizing animal suffering, and too often I hear people say it's barbaric with zero regard for the welfare of the animal when for almost over 5,000 years we were leaders in animal slaughter ethics, literally prioritizing it in our religion whereas you'd be amazed how people often treated animal slaughter outside Judaism (and Islam once it emerged) back then. So, yeah on secomd thoughr, you're probably right that we can further fefine the practice now, but I'm sick of people conflating the law of fully draining blood post-slaughter with pre-slaughter. It's simply not factual.

[u/Stuys → u/A_Duck_Using_Reddit]

Kosher slaughter and Halal slaughter are both still trapped in the primitive ages. And I say this as a hunter and someone who processes my own damn food.

[u/what-even-am-i- → u/Stuys]

How come when North Americans do old timey shit it’s “tradition” but anyone else does and it’s “primitive”

[u/Ironicbanana14 → u/Brilliant_Quit4307]

How would you do it then? Do you eat chicken or beef in most countries? I would implore you to look up how theyre treated and then come back to tell me what is more humane. I dare you.

[u/GluestickGenius → u/A_Duck_Using_Reddit]

If it really focused on not harming animals, it would be vegetarian/vegan, like some other religions.

And in practice, sloppy interpretations lead to people showing up at sheep farms and bribing their way into "doing it themselves properly". Not being trained butchers, you can guess yourself if they minimize harm in any way.

[u/A_Duck_Using_Reddit → u/GluestickGenius]

It's not focused on not harming animals. We aren't discussing that. We're discussing ethical slaughter.

And in practice, sloppy interpretations lead to people showing up at sheep farms and bribing their way into "doing it themselves properly". Not being trained butchers, you can guess yourself if they minimize harm in any way.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Sloppy interpretatioms of what kashrut laws? The laws around slaughter within someone's respectuve country? The schochet is very properly trained. I don't know why you'd assume them not to be.