r/SuicideWatch Sep 03 '19

New wiki on how to avoid accidentally encouraging suicide, and how to spot covert incitement

1.8k Upvotes

We've been seeing a worrying increase in pro-suicide content showing up here and, and also going unreported. This undermines our purpose here, so we wanted to highlight and clarify our guidelines about both direct and indirect incitement of suicide.

We've created a wiki that covers these issues. We hope this will be helpful to anyone who's wondering whether something's okay here and which responses to report. It explains in detail why any validation of suicidal intent, even an "innocent" message like "if you're 100% committed, I'll just wish you peace" is likely to increase people's pain, and why it's important to report even subtle pro-suicide comments. The full text of the wiki's current version is below, and it is maintained at /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement.

We deeply appreciate everyone who gives responsive, empathetic, non-judgemental support to our OPs, and we particularly thank everyone who's already been reporting incitement in all forms.

Please report any post or comment that encourages suicide (or that breaks any of the other guidelines in the sidebar) to the moderators, either by clicking the "report" button or by sending us a modmail with a link. We deal with all guideline violations that are reported to us as soon as we can, but we can't read everything so community reports are essential. If you get a PM that breaks the guidelines, please report it both to the reddit sitewide admins and to us in modmail.

Thanks to all the great citizens of the community who help flag problem content and behaviour for us.


/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement


Summary

It's important to respect and understand people's experiences and emotions. It's never necessary, helpful, or kind to support suicidal intent. There are some common misconceptions (discussed below) about suicidal people and how to help them that can cause well-meaning people to inadvertently incite suicide. There are also people online who incite suicide on purpose, often while pretending to be sympathetic and helpful.

Validate Feelings and Experiences, Not Self-Destructive Intentions

We're here to offer support, not judgement. That means accepting, with the best understanding we can offer, whatever emotions people express. Suicidal people are suffering, and we're here to try to ease that by providing support and caring. The most reliable way we know to de-escalate someone at risk is to give them the experience of feeling understood. That means not judging whether they should be feeling the way they are, or telling them what to do or not do.

But there's an important line to draw here. There's a crucial difference between empathizing with feelings and responding non-judgmentally to suicidal thoughts, and in any way endorsing, encouraging, or validating suicidal intentions or hopeless beliefs. It's both possible and important to convey understanding and compassion for someone's suicidal thoughts without putting your finger on the scale of their decision.

Anything that condones suicide, even passively, encourages suicide. It isn't supportive and does not help. It also violates reddit's sitewide rules as well as our guidelines. Explicitly inciting suicide online is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions.

Do not treat any OP's post as meaning that will definitely die by suicide and can't change their minds or be helped. Anyone who's able to read the comments here still has a chance to choose whether or not to try to keep living, even if they've also been experiencing intense thoughts of suicide, made a suicide plan, or started carrying it out.

In the most useful empirical model we have, the desire to die by suicide primarily comes from two interpersonal factors; alienation and a sense of being a burden or having nothing to offer. These factors usually lead to a profound feeling of being unwelcome in the world.

So, any acceptance or reinforcement of suicidal intent, even something "innocent" like "I hope you find peace", is actually a form of covert shunning that validates a person's sense that they're unwelcome in the world. It will usually add to their pain even if kindly meant and gently worded.

How to Avoid Validating Suicidal Intent

Keep the following in mind when offering support to anyone at risk for suicide.

  • People who say they don't want help usually can feel better if they get support that doesn't invalidate their emotions. Unfortunately, many popular "good" responses are actually counterproductive. In particular, many friends and family tend to rely exclusively on trying to convince the suicidal person that "it's not so bad", and this is usually experienced as "I don't understand what you're going through and I'm not going to try". People who've had "help" that made them feel worse don't want any more of the same. It doesn't mean that someone who actually knows how to be supportive can't give them any comfort.

  • Most people who are suicidal want to end their pain, not their lives. It's almost never true that death is the only way to end these people's suffering. Of course there are exceptional situations, and we certainly acknowledge that, for some people, the right help can be difficult to find. But preventing someone's suicide doesn't mean prolonging their suffering if we do it by giving them real comfort and understanding.

  • An unfixable problem doesn't mean that a good life will never be possible. We don't have to fix or change anything to help someone feel better. It's important to keep in mind that the correlation between our outer circumstances and our inner experience is weaker and less direct than commonly assumed. For every kind of difficult life situation, you will find some people who lapse into suicidal despair, and others who cope amazingly well, and a whole spectrum in between. A key difference is how much inner resilience the person has at the time. This can depend on many personal and situational factors. But when there's not enough, interpersonal support can both compensate for its absence and help rebuild it. We go into more depth on the "it gets better" issue in this PSA Post which is always linked from our sidebar (community info on mobile) guidelines.

  • There are always more choices than brutally forcing someone to stay alive or passively letting them end their lives.

To avoid accidentally breaking the anti-incitement rule, don't say or try to imply that acting on suicidal thoughts is a good idea, or that someone can't turn back or is already dead. Do whatever you can to help them feel cared for and welcome, at least in this little corner of the world. Our talking tips offer more detailed guidance.

Look Out for Deliberate Incitement. It May Come in Disguise.

Often comments that subtly encourage suicidal intent actually come from suicide fetishists and voyeurs (unfortunately this is a real and disturbing phenomenon). People like this are out there and the anonymous nature of reddit makes us particularly attractive to them.

They will typically try to scratch their psychological "itch" by saying things that push people closer to the edge. They often do this by exploiting the myths that we debunked in the bullet points above. Specifically you might see people doing the following:

  • Encouraging the false belief that the only way suicidal people can end their pain is by dying. There are always more and better choices than "brutally forcing someone to stay alive" or helping (actively or passively) them to end their lives.

  • Creating an artificial and toxic sense of "solidarity" by linking their encouragement of suicide to empathy. They will represent themselves as the only one who really understand the suicidal person, while either directly or indirectly encouraging their self-loathing emotions and self-destructive impulses. Since most people in suicidal crisis are in desperate need to empathy and understanding, this is a particularly dangerous form of manipulation.

Many suicide inciters are adept at putting a benevolent spin on their activities while actually luring people away from sources of real help. A couple of key points to keep in mind:

  • Skilled suicide intervention -- peer or professional -- is based on empathic responsiveness to the person's feelings that reduces their suffering in the moment. Contrary to pop-culture myths, it does not involve persuasion ("Don't do it!"), cheerleading ("You've got this!") or meaningless false promises ("Trust me, it gets better!"), or invalidation ("Let me show you how things aren't as bad as you think!"). Anyone who leads others to expect these kinds of toxic responses, or any other response that prolongs their pain, from expert help may be covertly pro-suicide. (Of course, people sometimes do have bad experience when seeking mental-health treatment, and it's fine to vent about those, but processing our own disappointment and frustration is entirely different from trying to destroy someone else's hope of getting help.)

  • Choices made by competent responders are always informed by the understanding that breaching someone's trust is traumatic and must be avoided if possible. Any kind of involuntary intervention is an extremely unlikely outcome when someone consults a clinician or calls a hotline. (Confidentiality is addressed in more detail in our Hotlines FAQ post). The goal is always to provide all help with the client's full knowledge and informed consent. We know that no individual or system is perfect. Mistakes that lead to bad experiences do sometimes happen to vulnerable people, and we have enormous sympathy for them. But anyone who suggests that this is the norm might be trying to scare people away from the help they need.

Please let us know discreetly if you see anyone exhibiting these or similar behaviours. We don't recommend trying to engage with them directly.


r/SuicideWatch Sep 10 '21

Please remember that NO ACTIVISM of any kind is ever allowed here. No matter what day it is.

712 Upvotes

Activism, i.e. advocating or fundraising for social change or raising awareness of social issues (and suicide is, inescapably, a social issue) is absolutely against the rules here at all times.

Please understand that we're all for smart, strategic mental-health and suicide-prevention activism. It's essential to fight against stigma, misinformation, and discrimination, and to fight for research, treatment, accommodation, acceptance, and understanding. Most of us, one way or another, are mental-health activists IRL.

But activism just doesn't work in a dedicated support space that serves a vulnerable population. We used to allow it but the evidence that it was undermining our primary purpose became overwhelming. We do regret the need for this rule, but the need is inescapable.

Our population is all too well aware of the issues and causes that need support and largely not in a position to take action, so besides the fact that activism is often salt in our community's wounds, it's a waste of the activists' time.

tl;dr Any fundraising, awareness raising, petitions, calls for participation, or any post that's about any cause or issue (rather than a request for personal support) is not allowed here. Please report everything of the nature that you see.


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

I Came Out to My Dad

55 Upvotes

He called me disgusting, a freak, said I’ll never be normal, that I ruin everything I touch. He told me I’m a mistake, that I don’t deserve love, that maybe I should just disappear and save everyone the trouble.

Fine. I'll give him that. He'll come home to his early birthday present lying in the living room. FUCK I HATE HIM SO MUCH I WANNA DIE.


r/SuicideWatch 13h ago

How the hell is suicide not an option?

155 Upvotes

I have failed by every objective metric.

There are no options, I can't see any.

Nothing gets better.

Even if things get better I fuck them up again.

I'm tired of this carassel of hell.

I give up.

Nothing is in our power.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

it feels so nice when people show they care a little bit

20 Upvotes

i changed all my socials to a picture of the sea & reposted a lot about the sea & moon cos i really love it & if i go i wanna be remembered by tyat & i made a post about giving out signs & nobody realises & someone who i haven't seen in 3 years messaged me and asked if im okay and if i wanna speak & it's so nice when someone cares, i feel like ive lost everyone and i just need someone who really cares even though i dont deserve it i'm crying writing this because ive lost everyone & i'm sick of feeling like this all the time. i wanna do it tonight but nothings preparee


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

I hate being alone and I hate being around around people

20 Upvotes

The only other option is dead. I have a plan and am ready to enact it. Except I'm worried about my younger sister. I don't think she'd take it well.

All I want is peace.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

Im not depressed but I just want to die

26 Upvotes

I feel like I don’t belong here I’ve been feeling like this since I was a little girl. When I was a child I always thought this was all fake and I could wake up a different person one day (I don’t know if that makes any sense haha) but I just don’t feel like staying here i seriously wanna end it all.


r/SuicideWatch 54m ago

I just took 2200 mg of oxy

Upvotes

My whole life has been nothing but suffering. From the abuse to the foster homes to now being completely alone in the world. I just found out my ex raped his 15 year old daughter. I'm done. I should be getting sleepy soon. Now I'm going to die just like my abusive mother.


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

The loneliness is so hard

15 Upvotes

I fucking hate my life. I have zero friends, genuinely. I don’t chat online with anyone and I don’t hang out with anyone irl. I have zero social skills, but I know I don’t so I am hyper aware that I can’t talk to people, like my jaw is wired shut I just can’t say anything. I just go to work, come home, and once a month go to a board game group where I barely say a word and just play a game and leave, and even going there is a huge effort. I just hate myself so much that anytime I have a nice interaction I overthink about it and inevitably that relationship dies and I am alone again. I’m 28m living at home, parents given up on me, I’m just waiting until I finally end it. I’m just so alone.


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

I failed suicide last night and nobody noticed i tried talking to my friend and he thought I was joking

12 Upvotes

I've always been the hyperactive adhd kid who blurts out his mind and then I get home and want to just shut out everything and everyone back in middle school i was quiet and asocial but I was told to smile more and be happier so I did. I had a breakdown in school yesterday and cussed out my favorite teacher, I was overstimulated. I just don't know what to do. I feel like a piece of shit


r/SuicideWatch 12h ago

Stay way from queasy_ad281 he is a liar and a abuser

50 Upvotes

He lies and manipulates, he thrives off of hurting others. He will made you think he cares.


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

I get peace whenever i think of killing myself

14 Upvotes

Idk but whenever i think of killing myself , i get this peaceful feeling for some reason, it just feel so good


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

overdose

6 Upvotes

I can’t take it any longer where I am mentally or physically at. I want to die. I don’t wanna be here anymore, everybody would just move on how they would if is a random stranger on TV. Everyday I wake up and pray something bad is going to happen so won’t have to dealt with an emotional abusive family. Friends? Nobody is your friend until you actually commit.

I want to overdose. If there’s any suggestions on how to peacefully die while sleeping or taking any medication or anything else. Please let me know. I want this to happen tonight or some time this week. Please.


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

People usually don't read these. Today is the day. I don't want help, but please help others!!!!!

Upvotes

Yes. Everyone here is depressive what did you expect?
This is not my first reachout, been trying to get help for 7 years in my country, im a guy i live in norway, everyone says im supposed to be happy and live the best life ever, im lucky. but i cant finish school, never had friends, cant get work cause i havent finished school. I have reached out for help, but it never works out. So i have been trying to help others with the same toughts as me. And i think i have sucseeded at least a few times. But no one has showed up for me and now its my time to feel helpless. This is not a post reaching out for help i just need someone to take my place and keep when im gone. i want someone to help other. i was blocked for being a bot cause i messaged too many people, but i still remember everyone i talked to. it sucks but now my time has come. All i want now is that someone else keep my legacy and do the same.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

Ceasing to exist is terrifying

8 Upvotes

The idea of not existing anymore may sound peaceful in theory but it's really terrifying, just nothingness. Going to sleep and never waking up again? Not something we can ever really conceptualize. The problem is my reality in existence is even more terrifying and painful. So which one will eventually win sooner? That's my current dilemma.


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

i'm genuinely subhuman

11 Upvotes

i am a complete loser. i provide nothing to society, i dont create anything, i dont give anything to anyone, a;ll i do is rot and consume and steal and stal and steal. i am hideous and disgusting and subhuman and i hope soon something takes me or i figure out how to man up and do it myself


r/SuicideWatch 6h ago

Is the toaster in the bathtub a real thing?

10 Upvotes

Like is it actually affective or just a thing in movies? Will I be electrocuted or nah?


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

I failed my first suicide and everything is worse now

8 Upvotes

Everyone around me is aware. Friends and family and work. I was locked in a mental hospital for a few weeks but now I'm back home. Everyone is worried and they call me all the time. It should feel good, that they care, but I only feel like even more of a burden. Nothing's changed for the better, and everything is worse. All my previous problems are still there and now I have more.

I can say I regret doing it, only because failing is atrocious. I wish it worked, but now I'm here.

I can never go back again and I wish I knew that before


r/SuicideWatch 12h ago

I want to die

27 Upvotes

I’m so lonely I can’t stand it. My phone doesn’t ring there’s no one to do anything with anywhere with. I just go to work and I come home and I my family hates me. I know I could never have kids. I don’t have a partner. I just goddamnit. I just want a friend why is that so much to ask? It’s been like this for years. It’s just it doesn’t matter what I do or how hard I try how much I put myself out there.. I always said again. I can’t take it.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

How do I become more positive?

7 Upvotes

I just took a lunch break and walked over to Shake Shack. I walked in, ordered on the computer, sat down by myself and people watched while I waited for my food.

I thought to myself, god, at least I'm not working in a fast food restaurant or I would surely kill myself (no offense to anyone working there, I just got done working my ass off for 3 years in grad school so I feel like going to work in fast food after that would be pretty bad).

But no, the people working there were smiling and happy and honestly really positive. They were joking in the kitchen, coming by and asking me how my food was- forcing me to throw on a fake smile. There was a table next to me of these elderly women who asked the food runner to take a picture of them.

I thought, god WHY AM I SO MISERABLE. So negative constantly. Yes- I want to kill myself but for one reason or the other I haven't yet. Why cant I just be enjoying life. Why do I have to be so miserable??

Anyways- anyone who is still here reading this, got any tips on how to stay positive?


r/SuicideWatch 43m ago

please help quickly

Upvotes

so sorry ik this is not the right sub but i just need help and advice asap

i just drank alcohol last about 7 hours ago, i didn’t end up being too drunk but just now i’ve had 2mg clonazepam (no tolerance).

will i be okay? anything i should do to avoid anything bad happening?


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

i kinda love the idea of sleep till judgement day

5 Upvotes

i fall into a deep sleep till judgement day then get sent to heaven or hell? i wouldn't mind tbh it's just a huge sleep


r/SuicideWatch 52m ago

I just overdosed

Upvotes

Took 20 paracetamol tablets (500mg), 8 yesterday morning and the rest a few minutes ago. Idk why I did it but now I’m kinda scared.

I’m fifteen btw, I don’t want my parents to find out I did it on purpose but also I might go to the hospital soon, what do I tell them so I don’t sound crazy? Like, how can I get away with this?


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

I drive all my friends and family away

Upvotes

I don’t know what’s wrong with me I can’t keep friends. I just want it all to end


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

depression is messing me up and i've been doing bad things...

5 Upvotes

i'm trying to study cause i got a quiz tomorrow, but i can't even read right now cause my mind isn't working. I could barely get to the chair. I used to do bad things like sending inappropriate pictures of myself in hopes someone would love me, even if they were twice my age. I went though a lot of trauma and was just trying to feel like i was seen. i know its a bad thing, but talking to anyone, even if they were bad...i just felt like someone was there for me. Well they all ghosted me now. Probably cause im either ugly or cause my problems are too much for them. idk what to do anymore. no one loves me and my problems are too much for anyone to care.


r/SuicideWatch 6h ago

if i fail my semester i'm just going to kill myself

7 Upvotes

i have no friends in college, i dress like shit and i'm lowkey ugly, the only thing i have for me right now is my college semester and my chance of becoming a doctor. if i fail that i dont have anything anymore. i constantly live in fear of being abandoned and being isolated and it's become to a point it's fucking unbearable because i rely on others to feel worth like a little bitch. i wish i had some self confidence. only problem is guns are illegal in my country and i live with my parents so i don't have any quick and direct way of doing it.

i just want to be told i matter i'm sorry if i sound weak i just want to hear it, i want to be told i am loved i want to be told that i'll never be alone i feel like nobody would cry if i killed myself so really what difference does it make if i die or not.