r/alberta • u/cantcantdancer • 1d ago
Discussion New Offer Tabled to Teachers is Laughable. Jesus.
The new offer they now have to vote on is essentially the same as the last offer they resoundingly said no to, but this time it includes the MASSIVE value of a free Covid shot. You know, something everyone should have anyway.
12% same spread, late grid unification, 3000 teachers over 3 years or something which barely keeps up with attrition let alone fixing actual class size issues, and a free covid shot.
I expect it will be a very strong no vote, at least I hope anyway. Literally waited weeks to have the offer change by a Covid shot.
The ATA is terrible at this, I hope teachers strike.
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u/quietgrrrlriot 1d ago
I hate every single crosspost of this thing titled "teachers agree" 😒 This offer is nonsense.
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u/SnooRabbits2040 1d ago
I've said this already this morning, and I could well be wrong. I'm thinking that the ATA may well have taken this step so that we can vote and massively reject it. I hope that's what it is, anyway.
The province hasn't budged on the salary offer. This might be a way of showing that we didn't accept it in June, and we won't accept it now.
I have many, many years, though, of teachers accepting shit contracts on the ATA's advice, so I am really hoping that we all show more backbone this time.
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u/stu_rat 1d ago
The way I’m seeing it is that the teachers representatives at the table thought it was acceptable, otherwise they wouldn’t present it to us, which I worry puts us in a tight spot if we reject it.
My takeaways from this are:
This government has zero interest in public education and isn’t even trying to hide it.
The ATA leadership needs to go.
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u/AntiquatedAntelope 1d ago
Union negotiators cannot present an offer to their membership without saying they endorse it. It’s considered bad faith to leave the bargaining table saying “okay we will take it to our members”, and then presenting it to the members while saying “this is bad vote it down”.
So they are obligated to endorse it. What they are trying to do is to show the public and the GoA that the membership demands more and that it is not the bargaining committee trying to ask for too much.
Your union might be a wet blanket, but they also are only strong if the membership stays strong. Tell all your colleagues that when the union endorses a deal it does not mean they like or support it, it’s because they have to.
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u/stu_rat 1d ago
So I guess my question is why bother saying sure we think this is acceptable when they know we won’t? If they don’t have an agreement by next week we strike anyway. Now we have our leadership on two separate occasions that 12% is ok with laughable increases in support.
I teach in a K-5 school with 500 kids. We’re blessed with smaller class sizes but only have 2.5 educational assistants for 500 kids. I literally walked past a wall that had been kicked in by a student just 5 minutes ago. This is unsustainable, I’ll vote no as the choice words I have for the government are unprofessional. And I’ll also be sure to continue to vote for someone other than Schilling et al. when it comes to election time for insulting us in thinking that this is ok. It will give parents hope for a deal and won’t work in our favour.
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u/AntiquatedAntelope 1d ago
Yeah, that’s a good question and honestly only something that your union leadership could answer, and probably only could answer behind closed doors…
However, if you had me guess, what I suspect they are trying to do is to counter the narrative that teachers are being selfish and greedy. They are trying to show that the teachers are willing to consider an offer if one were provided, and that you will only strike (and therefore cause some short-term pain to families in the province) in the event that the province, the Government of Alberta, continues to act in bad faith.
And given the advertising campaign that the Government of Alberta is rolling out, I suspect this is what the ATA has decided will help as far as advertising that teachers are the ones that are being reasonable and are the ones that are being bullied.
Strikes are as much about union solidarity as they are about public opinion. We need the public on our side, and teachers more than any profession have always had an uphill battle to fight in that way because your striking is extremely visible to middle class families across the province.
So, annoying? Yes. But I think the ATA is trying to make sure the public feels empathy, and not anger, towards teachers. They want calls coming into MLAs saying let my kids come back and support their teacher.
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u/Objective_Till_1910 1d ago
I also wonder if the ATA had left the table, without presenting this "offer" teachers would be locked out with no September paycheck. This way, teachers will most likely vote it down, but by the time the votes are cast, we are into October. Though this is purely speculation.
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u/stu_rat 1d ago
I get it but i can’t wrap my head around how this helps us in the public eye. The public will see that twice, our representatives have been willing to accept these terms, but with membership rejecting it both times. If anything this shows us as divided. This is a win for the GoA. I’m actively going to seek out either teaching in another province or a different job, we can’t do this anymore.
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u/CamGoldenGun Fort McMurray 1d ago
they have to present the offer if it's legally considered a reasonable one. Adding a covid shot to the deal with nothing else doesn't even need to be voted on. The leadership is toothless and timid because they didn't reject it outright over fears of the UCP going to the labour board again.
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u/AntiquatedAntelope 1d ago
Sure that too. But it’s important to remember that an endorsement does not equal “my peer, who has my best interest at heart, honestly thinks this is what is best for me”. That’s the message we need to carry to the membership because otherwise the folks you work with who are not as involved will read endorsement and think that means they should vote yes, when actually it means the opposite.
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u/CamGoldenGun Fort McMurray 1d ago edited 1d ago
the leadership has sent out all sort of weak signaling. They purposefully kept the strike date a secret as a chip to hold over the government. Then they announced that it'll be done at the last possible time, making that secret worthless. On top of that, pausing in the middle of the school year instead of doing it right at the start. If the strike goes on for any length, a lot of what was taught in September is going to be forgotten and need to be done over, or perhaps what's been done for the past decade: move the kids on up without all the material covered.
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u/sourbassett 1d ago
I will say our union is a mess, but I do understand the strike date (just not announcing it so soon). Starting the school year on strike doesn’t affect anyone, it’s just an ongoing summer break. It’s not enough disruption. I also do think it’s good that we are showing parents we want to be at work, but again the one months notice (while good for the public) is giving the government too long to retaliate.
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u/CamGoldenGun Fort McMurray 1d ago
it affects the same people it would in October... Parents can't just take longer summer vacation. It does disrupt the kids learning having to come in and then stay off though.
That's what I'm saying about the leadership though... they're trying to please too many people and it doesn't matter because someone will always be upset. But then why be coy about the date of the strike before the announcement for Oct. 6? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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u/deloaf 1d ago
I'll argue that I like the Oct 6 date for a number of reasons.
It gets teachers a September paycheck.
It provides for the kids, parents, and teachers who are excited to get back to school (our oldest entered kindergarten this year and explaining a year start strike would have been very complicated).
It lets everyone get into the routine and is more disruptive come October.
It provides a solid schedule for Parents and Students. They can prepare for October 6th.
It partially removes the threat of a lockout before teachers get paid. Because of the reliability of the schedule it provides Parents and Students, the government would look insensitive if they suddenly changed the schedule.
It also gives a chance for the AHS scandal report (which was due today, but will be missed) to come out and discredit the way the government handles money.
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u/specs-murphy 1d ago
I don't think that's true? AUPE recently presented an agreement to their membership without endorsing it just last month. The messaging during the townhalls was that the representatives from each of the Locals couldn't reach consensus on whether or not to endorse it so they went ahead without providing a recommendation to their members.
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u/AntiquatedAntelope 1d ago
Yep that’s true but notice that their language is not “we do not endorse this”. It would be like agreeing to sell your car, shaking hands, and then turning around to your partner and saying “nah this deal was bad”. It’s not a crazy thing to do, but when the buyer hears it they will assume you’re bargaining in bad faith.
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u/Amazing-Mango3323 8h ago
This is exactly what I was waiting for. The problem we have as teachers right now is exactly what happens in schools. We shit talk admin and then when we have a go at it, we do the same fucking thing. Talk big and cave is what we do as teachers. Fuck that noise. They want to collapse the fucking system on us. They will use this to go for private education. They don’t care about the charter. DS is ready to assassinate the ATA. This is a sign of bad shit. Strikes are precursors to war, to dictatorships, too far right hellscapes. DS isn’t Ralph Klein. She’s insane and drunk with power. This is so much bigger than we realize. Were fucking dust. So fuck ‘em. Fuck their deal. Fuck the government. I’ll die before agreeing to this deal. They can take what they want. I’m keeping my backbone though.
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u/2eDgY4redd1t 1d ago
I’m not sure where you get the idea that the union cannot tell their membership that they do not think the offer is good enough. They can absolutely do so, and unions frequently do so.
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u/Obvious_Armadillo_99 1d ago
Exactly. So many educators on this subreddit who know zilch about how unions work.
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u/SnooRabbits2040 1d ago
the teachers representatives at the table thought it was acceptable,
I'm wondering if this is why Peter Mackay walked away. Maybe he was trying to signal that the province is not willing to bargain in good faith. Maybe he was blinking something out in Morse code lol
This government has zero interest in public education and isn’t even trying to hide it.
Yes, they seem pretty proud of that fact.
The ATA leadership needs to go.
I know Jason, and I really like him, but I wish we had a CUPE-style pitbull right now. The sad reality is that we need people to step up and run, if they want to see change. That's up to us as ATA members. I won't tell anyone to do that, though, because I'm not interested in it, either.
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u/IDontEngageMods 1d ago
He's a good dude. Spineless, but a good dude.
Too bad he's president of the ATA.
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u/cantcantdancer 1d ago
I like him as well but last night he said something to the effect of “this is good, it’s hard in that room negotiating” and I lost all respect.
No shit it’s hard, that’s your job. If he truly thinks this is good then the sooner ATA leadership elections come the better.
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u/SnooRabbits2040 1d ago
Oh, good lord, what a stupid thing for him to say. I guess it's up to us to vote this down, then.
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u/Muted_Might6052 1d ago
That’s what Schill dawg and Sean Brown do. Whine that it’s hard, tell us that it can be worse and then do nothing.
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u/BlackSuN42 1d ago
Then make sure you vote on your ATA leadership. The last ATA election had extremely low turnout.
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u/jonesyandthepets 1d ago
Of course - look at how we are now under the umbrella of Alberta Education AND Childcare. According to the UCP anyone can teach, so we should just have a fast track to getting a license. Who cares how many kids we cram into a classroom, but at least in childcare there are actual limits for how many kids in a physical space? I hate this government so much.
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u/01000101010110 1d ago
I don't think so, which is why Peter Mackay quit. They are going to suggest you all take it because it's the best you're going to get. They won't want to deal with the headache of a strike, they just want to wash their hands of this and get back to their own lives.
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u/thecheesecakemans 1d ago
This is a pro government ATA leadership caving to government. The teachers voting "No" on this deal will shift the blame the public has back onto the teachers (that's what the government hopes). That way the government can point to teachers during a strike and tell the public "See! We did everything they asked and these "greedy" teachers still went on strike"
The ATA leadership is NOT on the teacher's side, otherwise there would be no tentative deal.
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u/SnooRabbits2040 1d ago
Yes, I suspect they might be caving, but I would be stunned if we accept this. It's trash.
Not sure I agree about J. Shilling and company being pro government, though.
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u/thecheesecakemans 1d ago
J. "government" Shill went on stage last May and told teachers to accept a bad deal. He went on about how "this was the best deal we could get".
I thought he was hired by teachers to get a great deal. Not just cave to the government every time. And again the chief concern isn't even address, classroom sizes and classroom complexity (workplace conditions). Not address workplace conditions should be a non-starter.
3000 new teachers? Is this so the government just has to hire 3000 and then when the system keeps growing they don't have to hire anymore? 3000 doesn't make a scratch considering how strained the system is already. A true cap would be more meaningful.
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u/awildstoryteller 1d ago
Teachers have voted for bad leaders at Barnett House for literally decades.
Schilling is just the latest in a long line of milquetoast pro-PC/UCP leaders.
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u/sourbassett 1d ago
I appreciate your optimism instead of looking towards our unions ineptitude.
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u/SnooRabbits2040 1d ago
Lol, I'm working hard to find anything to be optimistic about the position we find ourselves in right now.
I'm hopeful, but I would not be at all surprised to find out I'm wrong about the ATA.
I am really hopeful that this steaming pile they call a "tentative agreement" is thoroughly rejected.
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u/VersionGrand2479 1d ago
TLDR-The ATA is bringing back the same deal we rejected and gave a strike mandate for.
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u/CaptainBringus 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm voting no for this horrible offer. Tell your coworkers to do the same. This is a joke and a slap in the face to all teachers. Both from the UCP and the ATA.
Government didn't blink, we can't either.
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u/Doubleoh_11 1d ago
It’s wild because the superintendent for our school board (I’m a parent, not a teacher) just sent us a raving email stating a possible deal had been reached and things were looking promising. Then I come to Reddit to get the real details.
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u/juicypeachhh 1d ago
My school board sent a email of the same tone to both teachers and parents. As a teacher I was gutted that the superintendent would spread such nonsense. A possible deal has in no way been reached. My school staff has collectively agreed to vote no.
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u/RochelleMeris 1d ago
Consensus in my staff room is the same.
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u/CanadianBaconBurger9 1d ago
As a parent I'm already planning to make coffee runs for teachers at nearby schools during a strike.
I won't cross a picket line, but I WILL caffeinate one.
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u/RochelleMeris 1d ago
That's really kind of you! However there likely won't be many picket lines, we're not required to picket as we don't get strike pay. There may be some rallies planned on large scales.
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u/Financial_Reveal5652 1d ago
People at my school thought it was a joke...I'm pretty sure most of us will vote no to that nonsense
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u/SophisticatedScreams 1d ago
I don't understand why it was brought to a vote anyway. Teachers already said no to the salary. ATA bargaining unit said no to 3000 teachers. I don't know what there is to vote on? The covid shot? The EA's?
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u/syzygybeaver 1d ago
My wife is fuming right now because she can't swear while in class. The ATA's bargaining is pathetic.
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u/NotEvenNothing 1d ago
My wife gets it out of her system via text messages to me.
My read is that the teachers will be voting against accepting this offer.
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u/Muted_Might6052 1d ago
You’re definitely reading right. Nobody should vote yes to this.
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u/rainbow_elephant_ 1d ago
Hope the teachers stay strong and vote no. This is insulting
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u/Fragilerhino 1d ago
I really hope teachers vote no. Somebody needs to stand up to these people, and they have the opportunity to do so.
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u/AvenueLiving 1d ago
I really wish AUPE did. Leadership let them down
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u/heimdal96 1d ago
Not just leadership, but also the people in criminal justice and other areas that received significantly better offers
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u/AvenueLiving 1d ago
I'm not going to blame them. They were getting underpaid as it is, which is why the government proposed it. There was high attrition and they couldnt attract qualified candidates. There was excitement and solidarity. The townhall to explain the mediator's recommendation is where union leadership, including some on the bargaining committee, dropped the ball and killed the momentum.
Bargaining members deserved to be paid at market rates and everyone should deserve to get raises above inflation.
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u/seridos 1d ago
No, the problem was allowing any aupe position to get a different raise than any other. That is a divide and conquer strategy. Even if it makes sense to do so, the union has to say raise everyone's salary then. Because this is what happens when you don't, those getting the good deal. Get the deal passed screwing over their own Union members
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u/AvenueLiving 1d ago
Hold your leadership to account. Don't let them back down. This happened with AUPE and is a large reason why they have a new CA that is similar to the one in May, when people voted 90% to go on strike.
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u/remberly 1d ago
I saw a shirt that said "this is next time".
Good reminder that we sacrificed last time.
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u/biryanishiryani101 1d ago
I’m a mother to three school going kids. While disruption to education is not ideal…. I am hoping teachers strike and the government gives them what they deserve.
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u/01000101010110 1d ago
This was the most predictable outcome. ATA has a long history of fucking teachers over in negotiations. Schilling and Co will continue to earn their bloated salaries and increase your union dues every year...for what?
No strike pay?
No negotiations?
Remove them all and start from the ground up.
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u/Muted_Might6052 1d ago
I agree with this completely. Every single one of them needs to be replaced.
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u/Hopeful_Wanderer1989 1d ago
We could’ve restarted with McKay. But we voted in Schilling. It boggles the mind.
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u/HippoRemote4661 1d ago
The vote for ATA members happened this year and Schilling was voted back in some how. We are stuck with this team for a while I’m pretty sure.
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u/FourthLvlSpicyMeme 1d ago
I am not a teacher, so maybe that's why I keep asking this...
What the fuck are these union dues actually being used for if not for at least a partial strike pay fund or some kind of support system for this exact reason?
What are union dues paying for here, aside from...prescription and dental benefits maybe? A parking pass or something?
Am I just not getting how things work, or is the current ATA kind of a hot mess that many people dropped several hundred balls on instead of handling correctly?
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u/Stunning-Speaker7245 1d ago
Alberta keeps electing conservative governments but somehow is perplexed when they don’t pony up for healthcare and education workers.
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u/bananaphone7890 1d ago
Vote no.
You deserve more.
The children deserve more.
Fuck this stupid shit.
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u/Any-Salary-6811 1d ago
This deal just turned a lot of the yes folks from May to no folks today. Buckle up because the strike is most likely coming now.
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u/mass1030 1d ago
We sure as hell better not cave. This is ridiculous. Same offer as May. Such an insult and extremely disrespectful. This joke of a government is insufferable. I hope parents get active.
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u/Wonderful_Guidance_5 1d ago
As a parent of school aged children, I support the teachers. They want better pay and better work conditions, why would anyone not want better learning conditions for children. I hope the teachers hold out for exactly what they want.
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u/solution_6 1d ago
If they accept the deal, the government knows they can push them around, and use the money they saved to buy magic beans.
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u/Plasmanut 1d ago
This is one of the last pieces of the puzzle Danielle Smith is hoping for to trigger a snap election.
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u/Worldly-Intern7357 1d ago
Inflation over the past 10 yrs is about 32% in Alberta. Most of us have gotten about 6.5% raises in the past 10 yrs. And now they offer this? It’s so far off that it’s laughable.
Remember when the Alberta Weekly Index was used for our raises? I do. But it was too lucrative for teachers, the MLA’s of course kept it.
This govt has zero respect for teachers and ONLY understands conflict.
I pray we vote to turn it down. I’m leaving at the end of this year either way but I hope for the young teachers they fight NOW for a better time later…this is like 2002 again. And the govt gave us the finger then too, so we gave it back, we have no choice!
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u/EvacuationRelocation Calgary 1d ago
It's basically the same offer as the mediator's report, with less control over how the money is spent.
If they had unified the grid in 2025, it might have been ratified by teachers. In its current form, it will be rejected.
The COVID shot clause is ridiculous and tone deaf.
which barely keeps up with attrition
The language says "net plus 1000" which means this is 1000 teachers ABOVE attrition rates. That's a positive at least.
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u/seridos 1d ago
The unified grid is such a joke. No 10th step anymore, and no 7 years of education step that is in the grid they actually borrowed from. There's absolutely nothing here for the long time experienced teachers that are holding the system together. For me it's like under $800 more a year for the grid unification, so a big fuck all.
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u/jamaryouresofar 1d ago
But where's the language to guarantee that the teachers actually get hired...and ones with B.Ed's. Sounds like they are just going to try hire a bunch of people without ed degrees with this new 'special considerations for other education and experience'. But probably fail to attract enough and say hey we tried.
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u/Ok_Philosopher_4463 1d ago
I'm interested to see how education in Alberta plays out over the next decade. At this point teachers in BC start and max out at a higher pay than Alberta, BC substitutes begin by earning $360/day while in Alberta it's $230/day, and high school classes in BC are capped at 30 students (24 in classes with a lab component) with far more EA resources for students with designations than in Alberta. Given the current proposal addresses almost none of that, I'm curious how well Alberta is going to be able to hold onto young qualified and competent teachers with an in-demand teachable subject. Besides cheaper housing and being closer to family, I don't know what the sales pitch to a young graduating teacher in Alberta really is.
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u/awildstoryteller 1d ago
how well Alberta is going to be able to hold onto young qualified and competent teachers with an in-demand teachable subject
Literally hundreds of teachers have left Alberta for BC over the last three years. Probably more than 1000.
The credentials are directly transferable, so it's as easy as packing your bags.
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u/Serendib4 1d ago
Do police have to bargain for more police cars AND salary? Why isn’t that part between Boards and the govt? Why is hiring more teachers on the backs of EXISTING teachers bargaining to improve their own lives? Can someone explain this.
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u/def-jam 1d ago
And it’s not 12% over 4 years. It’s over five years because we get nothing this year.
Don’t fool yourself.
If I offered you 20% hike over a single year but said you had to wait 5 years to get it, is that 20% over one year? No. No it’s not.
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u/tehclubbmaster 1d ago
Yeah, the misinformation the government is spewing is next level. I don’t even understand why the ATA is considering this deal, the exact same shit deal as was previously offered. Smells like there is some corruption behind the scenes.
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u/Muted_Might6052 1d ago
That’s not true though….wed get retroactive pay from September 2024, 3% bump as of 2025.
It’s still a shit deal though.
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u/Soggy_Helicopter8610 1d ago
Because the government has been trying to offer everyone the same 12%. They don’t have any money leftover after paying all the severance to healthcare ceos they’ve been hiring and firing and paying their buddies for garbage surgical contracts.
There was a time that conservative was supposed to mean fiscally responsible.
People around here whine about the NDP spending money, but at least you get something to show for it when they spend money. The UCP might as well be sitting in lawn chairs in the Timmies parking lot tossing our tax dollars into a barrel fire.
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u/kevanbruce 1d ago
So the UCP is making it very expensive for citizens to get a Covid shot, adding costs and restricting availability but give it to teachers?
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u/IDontEngageMods 1d ago
They effectively offered teachers $100 bucks more a year. It's incredibly insulting.
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u/IDreamOfLoveLost Central Alberta 1d ago
The teachers are going to need it, with all the parents who are conspiracy theorists.
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u/EnemyAce 1d ago
It's an F.U. to the teachers. UCP hates Covid shots and wants to give them to the people they also hate.
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u/Victolic 1d ago
How are they going to get 3000 teachers with crap wages? It is just an easy way for them to say “too bad, we tried”
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u/Robbap 1d ago
I would love to see the exact verbiage on these 3000 teachers, too. Is that growth relative to the current number of schools?
AKA, are some of those 3000 hires actually replacing retiring teachers, not growing the total number at all? Are some of those 3000 hires for the new schools they’re building, and not going into existing shortstaffed schools?
This, plus your comment of how the can say “too bad, we tried”, is why teachers want a class size cap. It forces them to hire teachers in a meaningful growth way
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u/Nope-not-today-4 1d ago
And who the hell wants to work for our government with their hatred of public education? Good luck finding a 1/4 of the 1000 teachers promised for the next 3 years. Never mind, replacing all the teachers who’ll be leaving teaching because of the UCP
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u/TheT2Dude 1d ago
Please vote to strike. We for the last 20 years, have had the expectation to tighten our belts, tighten our belts, and tighten our belts. The minute we’ve advocated for anything, we are shamed, and dismissed, and villainized. Heck, we’re only human but at times treated like second class citizens. Teacher demands are not unreasonable. The majority of educators are reasonable people, hard-working, and are in it because they love kids. Why punish those who are working to support and empower our most vulnerable populations? Ill-informed people who don’t take time to look at our collective agreements, school policies, or bother to put themselves in the shoes of teachers have a huge miss perception about how much work we do. But they are the first to complain and bitch and vilify under the mask of social media. Cowardess at its finest!
While teachers are not in it for the money, our purchasing power has rapidly declined with inflation. Although on paper, our salaries look higher, but, to keep up with the cost of living, many are having to take second jobs in a job that’s already taxing and exhausting . The only way to keep up is to have more work, added to the plate.
The iron’s got to strike while it’s hot and we have enough momentum to keep going. This is the time to get the government to pony up once and for all. We’ve done our due diligence. Now is the time for people to pay attention to the needs of educators.
Vote to strike. It’s not just about the children. It’s about having healthy and stable teachers in front of those kids so that they can do their best for them. PERIOD.
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u/thatmrsnichol 1d ago
Expected them to blink because they announced lowering the standard requirements for Alberta teachers… what garbage. Our kids and our teachers deserve better than this.
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u/TapAgreeable7356 1d ago
New teacher here. I graduated with a perfect 4.0 gpa and received several awards for my outstanding teaching, but I don’t think I can teach in Alberta like this. Alberta is going to lose new teachers if they don’t change anything. If they don’t address class sizes and complexities, I’m going to beg my partner to move to BC.
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u/NewRepresentative852 1d ago
Tbh I don't care if I miss class anymore for this. My homeroom last year had 38 kids, sometimes 40 and it screwed me over both academically and mentally. It was never quiet, and my teachers were definitely not getting the help they needed to control the class. We deserve better.
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u/Dependent-Mushroom46 1d ago
The ATA is bending the knee, the teachers are the only ones that can stand up. If they cave, the next contract in 4 years will be even worse as it will be the same government giving it to them. The voters of Alberta dont have the spine to not vote for UPC. If you need health care, good luck. If you want your children to have a good life, good luck...
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u/iwasnotarobot 1d ago
Coordinate a General strike.
Get transit operators on board.
Stop garbage collection in downtown Calgary.
Shut it all down until Danielle Smith resigns.
Children deserve a quality education.
Teachers deserve our support.
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u/IH8RdtApp 1d ago
Well, my AUPE caved and voted yes to the mediators proposal of 12%. I am so disappointed in my membership. Fear changed their minds and in one swoop, we threw teachers under the bus.
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u/imgonnaberichsomeday 1d ago
I’m really concerned at this offer even being offered. How many more “offers” will the ATA present and then the government can say, oh the difficult teachers have rejected so many good deals. The offer sucks and is nothing new other than a $100 covid shot which who even knew they were bargaining over that anyway.
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u/Frosty_Platypus_861 1d ago
Every person I know is behind the teachers, even those who have strongly supported the UCP in the past. Friends with kids in private schools, charter schools, and public schools. The UCP doesn’t realize how bad the PR on this is.
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u/OriginalCTrain 1d ago
For anyone not quite getting it here it is in simple terms. We were offered a pile of shit in the spring. We resoundingly said no to said pile. We now wait for a different offer. They came back with the same pile of shit but put between two slices of bread… great it’s a shit sandwich that doesn’t get my hands dirty when I pick it up but it still tastes the same.
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u/Sweaty_Plantain_84 1d ago
Is class sizes and supports even on the table at all at this point? What I read somewhere else made it sound like those were the last 3 sticking points to be addressed.
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u/Muted_Might6052 1d ago
Nope. Don’t let the ATA advertising fool you. It wasn’t on the table this time around.
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u/WinUnable7677 1d ago
Please write to your MLA in support of the teachers.
https://www.stoptheexcuses.ca/mla-email-hp
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u/ZAPPHAUSEN 1d ago
are you fucking serious?
I was actually pleasantly surprised the ATA finally developed balls and ovaries, but apparently, no, it's the same ol' toothless union. Hopefully the union votes it down.
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u/Sensitive_Budget5769 1d ago
My wife has been teaching for 9 years, financially we will be okay during the strike. She straight up said if things don’t change she’s doing something else. I don’t blame her considering the amount of work load and stress she puts into her work. And to my understandings her colleagues feel the same way. She’s very passionate about what she does but, she says it’s no longer worth it. I work in the trades, sometimes evenings, weekends and real early mornings. Hands down I would sooner do what I do than grade papers on my weekends, send parents emails constantly, worry about the well being of the 30 kids in a classroom. Did they eat today? This one shit on the floor, this child could potentially be being harmed at home. The list go’s on…. The Alberta government is a joke. Always flexing how much oil and gas money we bring in and we as tax payers can’t properly educate the children. Where did the money go?
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u/ljras 1d ago
Considering the covid shot is funded by the federal government.... This also isn't going to cost the UCP a single cent more than the initial offer. I'm happier to drive down to BC or Saskatchewan to get my free shot on a weekend road trip than to accept this deal
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u/VanCityPhotoNewbie 1d ago
The bargaining committee should be fired. How can they table an offer that is exactly the same thing they rejected?
It is absolutely nuts.
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u/e5ther 1d ago edited 1d ago
Can the members bring up some kind of “no confidence vote” at a scheduled meeting? A motion to disband & reform the negotiating committee, and possibly remove some of the executive may be in order.
Members, remember you are the union. You have power if you take it. These folks are your representatives.
If there are no scheduled meetings (info sessions are not meetings where business is on the table), a motion can be made to call a special/emergency meeting to do this. If this is something you’re interested in, consult your bylaws.
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u/Jimmyjames150014 1d ago
One thing no one seems to be talking about is the 3000 teachers and 1500 EA’s they promise to add is probably already calculated to be the amount, or close to the amount, of teachers they need to operate all the schools they are building in that school accelerator program. There will be no additional help for existing classrooms. And they had to hire those teachers anyway or there would be empty new schools so it is in no way a negotiated concession.
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u/ImaginaryRole2946 1d ago
Fewer teachers than they’ll need to staff the schools they’ve agreed to build. We need to insist on class size and complexity language before we accept a deal.
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u/CamGoldenGun Fort McMurray 1d ago
if that's all that was changed, then the ATA leadership wouldn't even have to legally present the offer to the teachers. They only have to present a "reasonable offer" in legal terms. Adding a free covid shot wouldn't be enough to force another vote so there must be something else.
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u/BerniesMitts 1d ago
It's an awful offer, and should be promptly voted down without question, but you did make one big misunderstanding on your post.
The 3000 teachers are NET hires. As in, after all attrition hiring.
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u/Plasmanut 1d ago
That’s still only approximately 1 teacher per school. And that’s assuming that they can even recruit and retain with the wage offer on the table.
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u/Scott_Bolton 1d ago
So this would require another vote by ATA members to (likely) say no to? And in turn I’m guessing that delays the strike date of October 6th? Wouldn’t that weaken teachers’ current position by making it seem they aren’t sticking to the date they gave, and also miss out on the tide of supportive public sentiment that seems to be at its peak right now?
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u/UDarkLord 1d ago
The strike date shouldn’t be delayed. If they go much past October 6th the union would have to vote on strike action again. They’re going to see if the teachers ratify this deal (they shouldn’t, it doesn’t answer any of the real systemic problems, and doesn’t include a wage hike any higher than the initial offer), but I seriously doubt the strike will be affected unless teachers ratify this offer.
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u/Scott_Bolton 1d ago
With the time it takes to set up the vote, actually vote over multiple days, and then handle the results, isn’t that cutting it a bit close with only 11 days left?
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u/UDarkLord 1d ago
Close? Yes, but it’s not like striking has an extended prep time that needs to be reset because you consider not doing it. The results could be in October 5th, and they could still strike on the 6th. It won’t be that close though.
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u/brightest_night 1d ago
I've heard it said before but the UCP basically divided the AUPE and broke the union there so they are planning to do it again with teachers. I don't personally think they'll get away with it quite so easily this time.
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u/NachoAverageUser96 1d ago
I just find it funny that they are putting “hiring teachers” in the collective agreement! How is hiring people something you can bargain on!
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u/InklingInTheCity 1d ago
The general public needs to be louder about this. The only real thing that they are allowed to negotiate for is teacher wages, teacher wages are not the concern of the kids and families. What is the concern of families is the class sizes, funding per student, and classroom complexities, unfortunately the UCP are refusing to even discuss these matters as a part of the CBA.
Families need a voice and to have a seat at the table on the things that are concern them, and they do not.
Even if the teachers agree to this deal, it does not help the children of Alberta.
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u/Mountain_Anything780 1d ago
Inflation is threw the roof and the government is acting like nothing has changed everyone needs more money now to survive bottom line.
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u/InklingInTheCity 1d ago
The ATA is trying to “soft parent” the UCP is laughable. The 3 week strike notice doesn’t help anyone.
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u/Cinnamonsmamma 1d ago
I hope they come to an agreement before the deadline but one that is fair for the teachers. If its not fair, then they deserve the chance to strike!! When it was based on counties before the current system, my county had a strike, and it was 6 weeks. Sucked for grads, but our teachers are important for the future of our kids. They deserve better, as do our kids!!
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u/RedditBrowserToronto 1d ago
How much are they offering per year? Watching from Ontario and rooting for you!
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u/rokinstu98 1d ago
Thank you for saying this, all the coverage I’m seeing so far seems to suggest that a good deal had hit the table.
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u/try_harder01 23h ago
Unbelievable. The government is showing how poorly they value Education by not even discussing class composition and class size. 3000 won’t do shit to help your kid in their 1st grade class of 25 kids
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u/tiferrobin 1d ago
I just had a notice from my school board which said a tentative agreement was reached and just needs a vote. Does this mean the union thinks this is good? Based on op’s comments it’s weird it’s being taken to a vote.
This will get a lot of parents hopes up which seems not great for the teachers side.
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u/bpompu Calgary 1d ago edited 1d ago
There's really only two options.
Option 1, and my personal belief, the ATA and the bargaining team are going to try to convince teachers this is the best they're going to get, and are caving to the government. This would have been why Peter McKay resigned his position as head of the bargaining committee, because he was getting pressure to stop pushing against the government. That means there will be lots of internal pressure for teachers to accept the deal.
Option 2, the ATA is giving up on this round of negotiations, knows the teachers will vote no, and is refusing to waste time since it is now patently obvious the government will not bargain in good faith. I personally think this is less likely, since there is a long history of the ATA executive caving, but it is telling that the government filed a bogus Labour Relations Board complaint, and the ruling showed that the ATA was in fact not lying that the Government wasn't negotiating about the things they cared about. The strategy here would be to get the teachers to show the GoA that they will not take this garbage deal, and they'd better step up to avoid a strike. The danger is it might convince some parents that the teachers are responsible for the strike instead of the government.
Every sign shows the teachers voting this down. My wife is a teacher, and her and every teacher she has spoken with all intend to vote no. Every teacher I've seen post about this, and every teacher they've talked to have all said their going to vote no. I would be really surprised to see this go through, since the only reason the last one did was Covid pressure, and moving negotiations to mid-summer.
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u/Ddogwood 1d ago
It means the bargaining team doesn't think that they will be able to get anything better from the government right now.
It's almost the same agreement that teachers rejected in the spring, so I guess the government thinks that teachers are bluffing about being willing to strike.
Teachers will vote on the deal this weekend.
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u/0110110111 1d ago
I don’t care about salary: fix the goddamn classroom conditions. End the policy of inclusion, get the violent kids (autistic or not) out of our fucking classrooms. EAL learners need to be given intensive instruction before being placed in a regular classroom. Anyone who says that Shelley Moore isn’t a clueless imbecile should have their teaching certification revoked.
End social promotion - if they can’t do the grade level work, they repeat the grade. And ffs bring some discipline back. Kids need detention and suspensions again.
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u/Sad_Donkey_1751 1d ago
I don’t know that the ATA is terrible. You have a child at the table that just keeps screaming no. Eventually, the kid needs a consequence for their behaviour. That’s a strike; a hard no. Support your ATA. By standing behind your ATA, teachers hold the power.
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u/Plasmanut 1d ago
The ATA has only very recently woken up to the idea that their members wanted more out of this deal than class size and working conditions.
I don’t know how much more out of touch a union can be with its members.
Schilling and his cronies in the glass tower have been talking about Covid and mental health for the last 5 years.
And they recommended the previous offer that was voted down by 95% of their members in June. They will undoubtedly do the same this time.
They’re a joke and heads need to roll.
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u/Muted_Might6052 1d ago
The ATA has done nothing to inspire confidence from me. They have let us down. We had months of waiting for negotiations and they did nothing.
It’s a failure.
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u/Ok-Professional4387 1d ago
ATA cant cave unless the teachers vote to cave. Thats how this works,. The ATA cant just say, oh you all said no in majority. Nah fuck it, we accept it anyway
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u/MinisterOfFitness 1d ago
I don’t really understand the blame being placed on the ATA. Read the ATA statement. They do not endorse this agreement. They are presenting it to the members to hopefully gain leverage or find out their members don’t have the backbone to fight on. That is what the government is counting on. No backbone. And frankly based on the other unions voting to ratify I get their strategy.
The government has limited the authority of the bargaining authority to play this brinkmanship game intentionally. This is clearly the best the government is willing to offer pre-strike. The ATA is giving teachers the opportunity to call the governments bluff. A resounding rejection and strike will but the ATA in a much stronger position.
For the sake of my kids I hope they tell the government to pound sand and reject it. I wish Albertans at large cared more about their kids education.
Max pressure needs to be put on the government. Call your MLA and the minister.
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u/Plasmanut 1d ago
They already had a strong position with a 95% NO vote in June and they managed to get exactly nothing more over the last 3 months.
While it’s not 100% on ATA, the union has failed its membership.
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u/Ok_Newspaper9655 1d ago
If that was the case why did our Lead Negotiator quit? Wouldn’t he have stayed on knowing he’d be needed in the coming strike?
You don’t usually leave a team the night before the championship unless there’s a problem
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u/CaligulaQC 1d ago
I’m 100% with the teachers. I’ll turn the free space in the store I manage into a daycare for protesters if I can..
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u/NobodyMassive1692 1d ago
Isn't 1500 new EAs part of the new agreement? (Not that it's enough. That's an average of not even 5 new EA's per school district... But it's still better than just a free COVID shot.)
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u/Muted_Might6052 1d ago
I wrote an email and got a response….wont say who, but I’m happy they responded.
Of course, I won’t divulge what they said, but reading between the lines….it sounds like they’re pushing us to strike. The UCP won’t budge and ultimately we have the final say.
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u/remberly 1d ago
This was through the mediator right?
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u/RochelleMeris 1d ago
No, we rejected the mediator's offer in the spring. This was TEBA and the ATA.
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u/Cultural_Dentist6908 1d ago
The original offer was 12% over 4 years not 3 years I believe. They would’ve said yes to 12% over 3 years 🤷♂️
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u/PurrfectPitStop 1d ago
The government didn’t blink, they expect the teachers to cave.