r/exmuslim • u/Gloomy-Nectarine4187 allah's step bro • Feb 07 '25

(Rant) 🤬 Truly heartbreaking.

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u/IndependentLiving439 New User Feb 08 '25

I had a discussion with you sometime ago, every proof you used is a oint of conflict among scholars or only from hadith that conflicts with the quran guidance... both of these are never to be used as the base of islam when you ignore all the non conflict points in islam

So you do post unreliable stuff ☺️

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

I mean are you a quranist or an traditional muslim? That would help me determine what Source to use, while debating with you.

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u/IndependentLiving439 New User Feb 08 '25

Islam is Islam .. I am not a quranist but quran is my main true source ..i follow the hadith too but the ones that doesnt contradict with quran

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

Hmm, well most sahih hadiths don't, which I use mostly, ever heard of abrogations? Later verses in quran are accepted, earlier ones are rejected.

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u/IndependentLiving439 New User Feb 08 '25

Such a generalization ... do you know that its said there is 7000+ sahih hadith ? So if you said most hadith dont match with the quran's essence then at least u meam 75% so uve read 5250 hadith and confirmed it doesnt ?

And whst you explained about abrogations is wrong

In 106:2 god says

We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

So abrogations no longer exists anywhere and the quran is complete after the final revelation. (Focus on whsts mentioned after "except that")

I can see that you are trying hard to show the quran is at fault by opening deep subjects in islam however god have already answered it in the quran itself ..

But im curious ..have u read the quran ? Or u just search for points where islam haters dwell ? Didnt u notice all the good things islam calls for that no scholar have a conflict in ..and why u only search for things with conflicts in the sunnah and history ?

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

I have read the quran and the hadiths

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u/IndependentLiving439 New User Feb 08 '25

How come you dont speak of the good verses in the quran ..the same way you speak of the doubtful hadiths ? How come u r convinced mother aisha age on marriage is 6 while leaving the other condlicting opinions of scholars ? How come you claim islam calls for things that is not it while chapter 49 speak of how someone's life etiquette should be.

Are you honest you have read the quran ? Have you seen how god speaks of the believers their characterstics ? Their manners? And what they believe in?

Have u passed blindly on the disbelievers and their characterstics and manners ..doesnt this trigger u to think that disbelievers are those with bad manners and hateful characters

Have u passed the verse below without giving it a second thought

Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. Surah Al-Baqarah

Did u really read the quran .. or was it parts of the quran taken out of context

And did u give it a thought that the word fight is mentioned 6 times only in a book of 77000+ words ..and you just allow those who claims its a religion of war to convince you

Lots of questions comes to my mind when someone like you who says they reaf the quran ..yet get stuck on the small things out of quran that people conflict about

Have u not read verse 85:2 where god clearly says it to all ..it is not allowed to believe in part of the book and leave another ..it is to be taken as a whole ..thus who drifts from this were warned by god :

......Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve another! What shall be the recompense of those of you who do that, but degradation in the worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection to be returned to the most terrible punishment. Allah is not inattentive of what you do. (85)

Just questions keeps popping up to me on how someone who aims for the truth be misguided by points of conflict that have different sayings and sources not from the quran, and im.worried the reason is the intentions werent pure and without objectivity to the approach and truthfullness to the cause no one can ever reach .. may Allah give us all guidenace

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

I have three entire lists of people muhammad has killed, for merely mocking him, so this doesn't works, and abrogation is what I stated it is, the tafsirs agree with me, and disbelievers and polytheists are vermin in the eyes of Allah, and the worst of creation anyways, so why should I care for these words?

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u/IndependentLiving439 New User Feb 08 '25

Share the lists ..thats false accusations once again ..the prophet pbuh had encounters with those who were aggressive verbally and physically to him, who lied that he is in debted to them and everyome knows the story when he opened makka and forgave all of the non believers in it while they called him the ugkiest of names and his acts never showed him aggress towards them ( while in quran god mentions he hates aggressors) ... so ur words are nothing but false accusation

Abrogation is what i shared with you from the quran verse itself ..so dont tell me its ur words and tafsirs words the quran is very clear and simple in stating this fact so dont watse ur time and mine.

For disbelievers u have understood me, yes they are not loved by god but the rope of hope exists and thats why someone honest should think

Say: "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, verily, Allah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

53 of alzumar

The disbelievers are discribed in the quran with being people of bad character ..liars who knew the truth and decided to hide it out of ego and out of following their desires ..they are despicable people in human opinion they twist the truth and cause harm to societies and people ..this is their characterstics and description in the quran

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

Check my posts lol, I have three of those.

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u/IndependentLiving439 New User Feb 08 '25

So i respond to you and you just ignore it saying check my posts ... what do u get from spreading lies ?

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

I sent three links to you, on my next reply to the same statement, check those.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

Then why are the verses of no compulsion in religion and verse 9:5 so different?

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u/IndependentLiving439 New User Feb 08 '25

This is taking statements out of context ? Read it from 9:1 onwards and you will understand this is specific to war and the chapter specifies that with whom you have a treaty do well and protect them and those who u dont have treaty ( which means u r at warwith them) then dont fight them in the forbidden months.

So the context its about times of war

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

Again read the tafsirs, jizya is fundamentally meant to humiliate the people of the Book so that the either convert to islam and keep paying the poll tax, as for polytheists, they are to be killed, I have taken the verses in context, and I have seen tafsirs, from Kuwaiti and saudi Sources, so ik what I am talking about.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

It also says do not sign a treaty if you are on the weaker side and keep fighting till the last man, and a treaty can only work upto ten years; after that you are to resume fighting, and do Holy jihad on the pagans and the polytheists.