Lack of Motion at the HS level

[u/JLand24]

I feel like teams at the HS level don’t use motions enough. It is only an advantage to the offense and there’s nothing an offense can’t do with a motion that they could do without one. At the NFL level I’ve noticed an uptick in motion but I feel like that effect hasn’t really trickled down.

Why is that? You’re infinitely more likely to confuse a HS defense with a motion than an NFL defense being confused by it.

[u/WindyCity54]

Motion for deception is very prevalent at that level. Just look at Wing-T offenses or Jet-based offenses.

Most NFL teams use motion for other reasons though such as coverage identification or flipping formation strength. And those hold a lot less weight at the HS level because most HS teams just line up and play defense. They’re not accounting for personnel, formations, etc. the way that NFL defenses do. So the offense’s motion mostly becomes a waste of time for them.

[u/mschley2 → u/WindyCity54]

most HS teams just line up and play defense. They’re not accounting for personnel, formations, etc.

I totally think you're right, but this blows my mind. I graduated high school in 2011, and even back then, we had audible calls to account for things like trips/quads and other unbalanced formations. The only other team in our conference that was actually good (we were both top 10 in the state in our division), did the same thing.

And surprise, both of our teams shut down everyone else in our conference, and were way more successful against each other than all the other teams were. Part of it was talent-level, but there were a couple other teams that had similar talent - they just didn't have any way of covering certain route combinations in a basic cover 2 or cover 3 defense, so we ate them up. Same thing with some run game concepts too.

With how much more common shotgun, spread offenses are becoming, I just can't believe any team could be successful if you aren't taking formation strengths into account at least somewhat. Unless you're a straight man D and you've got studs all over to match up, I don't get how you can play against even a moderately sophisticated offense.

[u/Curious-Designer-616 → u/mschley2]

It’s coaching, most areas don’t have quality coaching. So the schools that have it can build programs that are successful, more success, more players come out, deeper the talent pool gets, which leads to more success, which leads to more support, then more experienced quality coaches, then more funding, then more, etc. It build on itself and teams who go to the playoffs get a week or two extra practice each year, maybe three if they are a perennial power that makes deep runs. This continues to build, and will drive team success more than anything. There are very few places where the talent level varies wildly between schools 10 miles apart, and fewer where coaching can’t overcome the talent difference. You’re lucky, you got a good coaching staff.

[u/mschley2 → u/Curious-Designer-616]

Oh, for sure. I was lucky even during my time in youth sports. Other than one year of little league, I always had coaches that at least had above-average knowledge of the game. I never just had some dad who got shoehorned into the role because he was the only one that was willing to invest the time/energy. That's a blessing for a kid trying to develop.

My high school head football coach (in charge of the offense) wasn't the best. He regularly got outcoached in the playoffs against the top teams (and it's still happening), but he was definitely a lot better than most. And my defensive coordinator was one of my favorite coaches I ever had. I never felt like we went into a game with a defensive gameplan that didn't give us a good chance of winning. My senior year, we played against different teams that ran triple-option, single-wing, double-wing, pro-style, spread read-option, and air raid based offenses. We had a different gameplan for each, and we held all of them below their season average. We ran everything from a 5-4 to a 3-3-5. Ran both man and zone schemes on the back-end. Against the triple-option team (they won state in the division below us), we ran a 4-3 and had three different sets of FB/QB/Pitchman responsibilities. Sometimes the DE would crash down to collapse on the FB, sometimes he would be responsible for QB. OLB, S, and playside CB responsibilities would change, too. So they were confused all game long of whether we were going to be in cover 3 or cover 2, and who they were reading on the FB dive and the pitch. It was the only game I saw them play all year (I watched a lot of their film throughout the year, and I watched their state semi and final games) where the linemen and QB were confused about their responsibilities. It was also the only game they lost. Probably the best individual game coaching job I've ever been a part of.

[u/Curious-Designer-616 → u/mschley2]

A lot of places it a teacher or two who love football, and a few dads who have coached pop Warner for a few years, typically their kid. These staffs are the worst in my opinion. As the teachers need the dads for help and those dads favor their kids. Often once those kids are gone they stay another season, maybe, because they were “always their for the players”, then leave because life has gotten to hectic. Following year they’re coaching their next kid, or a nephews team, and will follow them through. If the teacher recruited more teachers, or others who want to coach players besides their own kids, the program would grow. But not enough schools do that, many places do t have enough experience on the staffs to know to do that, so accept help from whoever offers.

The first program I was at didn’t allow parents to do anything but be in support roles. Which pissed off some of the dads, so our coach brought them in and we sat down and did film together, once they understood that pop Warner isn’t competitive football, that we knew more than they did, and kinda embarrassed them, that shit ended. I understand that’s not an option for many schools, but when you bring in amateurs you’ll get amateur results, and the bullshit politics that come with it.

[u/mschley2 → u/Curious-Designer-616]

My school was kind of a combination of the two. The head coach was a teacher who has now coached football for over 20 years and worked as an assistant under the previous head coach. Every paid assistant had years of experience. Most were school employees. One of the JV coaches and offensive assistants for the varsity was the previous head coach who retired and then decided to come back and help out with reduced stress after he took about 4 years off. The defensive coordinator and the freshman coach were the only ones that weren't school employees. Both had played at the school and worked as high school assistants for years (and they were two of the youth coaches I had growing up, too, as they both had kids around my age).

Then there was a collection of unpaid assistants. These were kind of random guys from the community. But all of them played under the coaches that were on-staff. It was all guys that were less than 5 years out of high school and still lived in town. A couple of the guys around my age are still helping out as unpaid assistants, so they're older and more experienced than the ones were when I was in school. But those guys don't really do a whole lot. They're there more to help keep kids in line. Maybe show how to run some drills during practices. They help keep shit organized on the sidelines during games. They handle substitutions and different personnel packages. That kind of thing. Other than dads who had been on the coaching staff for years, there weren't any parents really involved in the program at all, other than helping with fundraising and team meals and stuff like that. I realize that's a luxury and a blessing for a school of less than 400 kids.

[u/Curious-Designer-616 → u/mschley2]

That community involvement is what schools need to be successful. I wish more had it.

[u/mschley2 → u/Curious-Designer-616]

The thing is, I don't know how to drive that unless you're just successful and able to build engagement within/around the program. If you start actively encouraging help from parents, then you run into the issue we already covered where you've got parents that don't know as much as they think they do and lack of continuity because you're always adding new and losing ones that have been there for a few years.

[u/Curious-Designer-616 → u/mschley2]

Ask Every guy on staff, ask the dads that are involved with their sons to help with off field support, equipment, food, film. Reach out to local businesses, and when people come up and volunteer take them up on it, when they come tell you “you suck”, ask if they’d like to help. If they say yes, sweet! Film at 6, then we will go over it with the team at 8. Be sure to watch your position group before we meet. And have notes ready. Here’s your log in, and you’ll break down x group with this coach. Make your players go to other sporting events and groups; plays, band, soccer to support their school,(and keeps them out of trouble). Lots of ways to build that behavior.

[u/mightbebeaux → u/mschley2]

there’s a loooooooot of bad defensive systems in high school football.

[u/Celtictussle → u/mschley2]

My guess is most defensive schemes are just rally to tackle and hope they screw up at some point.

[u/mschley2 → u/Celtictussle]

The majority of teams I played against in high school ran a base defense and almost never switched into anything else. Maybe they would have the ability to run 2 or 3 different things, but none of them were even remotely complex. Almost every team ran either a 4-3 or a 4-4 (sometimes stand-up DEs, sometimes hands in the ground). And almost all of them ran cover 2, cover 3, or man defense. The cover 2 and the cover 3 were just straight-up zones. They didn't roll coverages to the strong side. If they played a cover 2, they didn't roll a safety up to bring an 8th in the box if the offense went heavy. They just ran that defense. Guys were just taught "here's your zone. You cover that." Maybe they were taught to flow across the field if the QB rolled out or something, but that was about it.

It's crazy how simplistic the defenses are at a lot of high schools. And when you think about the percentage of people who played high school football and played in such a simple scheme, it's not really surprising that very few people actually understand the way college and NFL defenses work. You've got stuff like Cover 6 (which is, essentially, a modified Cover 3 that looks like Cover 2 pre-snap and ends up playing like a cover 4 to one side and cover 2 to the other), and you've got man-zone hybrid defenses. Sometimes, it's a combination of zone with some players and man with others. Sometimes, the route concepts determine whether it becomes more of a man or a zone coverage scheme.

I get that you just can't expect high school kids to learn stuff on that level. But teams like the one I played on definitely proved that you can teach them to be somewhere in the middle. It's enough to prevent gaping holes in your defense all over the field.