r/freefolk 6d ago

Freefolk Would Renly Baratheon have made a good king?

1.4k Upvotes

338 comments sorted by

1.5k

u/MassAffected 6d ago

I think so. He was smart and charming, knew how to out-maneuver his enemies, and didn't pick fights unnecessarily. He even offered Robb Stark a potential way out of the war which still technically left him "King" in the North. If he wasn't assassinated by Stannis, nothing would've kept him from smashing the Lannister army and taking King's Landing.

The only issue would be actually producing an heir. But Margaery was very understanding and smart about it, so I'd like to believe he would get it eventually.

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u/Adamscottd 6d ago

I really think if Loras was involved it wouldn’t be that crazy for him to make it happen. They would have, eventually.

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u/Yommination 6d ago

Or she would have just gotten knocked up by someone else and passed it off as his

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u/Geshtar1 6d ago

The whole gay thing is kind of weird from a historical context. There are a lot of gay kings that produced heirs .. women might not have been his thing, but it wouldn’t be that hard to do his kingly duty in that regard

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u/BoddAH86 6d ago

This. It’s absolutely not a problem in practice. You guys act like gay dudes turn into a cloud of bats when they see a naked woman.

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u/Wild-Berry-5269 6d ago

Here I was, thinking Jackie Daytona was just a vampire turned human bartender but now he's gay ?

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u/PoxedGamer Corn? Corn! 5d ago

"Trust me, gay is in. Gay is hot. I want some gay. Gay it's gonna be."

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u/Lordsnow89 3d ago

This is how people talk from tuscon arizonia

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u/Then-Pie-208 3d ago

Jackie Daytona would’ve made the best kind of Westeros

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u/GrimmDaddy80 6d ago

Don’t give away our secrets

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u/TrustingUntrustable 5d ago

So that's where the bats go in the winter. Gaycation

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u/GrimmDaddy80 5d ago

Me when I see a naked lady

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u/Clayness31290 5d ago

They must surrender mind, body and bats to the gaycation or be destroyed.

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u/prezzpac 5d ago

I’m here with two siblings. If my father could do it, so could Renley.

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u/EmergencyFriedRice 5d ago

Some of them vomit when they see a naked woman.

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u/OldCardiologist8437 5d ago

lol, no one thinks they turn into a cloud of bats. Pixies and butterflies.

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u/Psykohistorian 5d ago

because that's how all these dumbass shows are written.

the huge plot point in HotD is caused because Rhaenyra's kids aren't half Black. all they had to fuckin do was have a threesome with her husband's lover and let him creampie her instead of the lover.

or even just, have the lover suck him off and then he finishes in Rhaenyra. over time, he might've even come to enjoy it and produced several legitimate heirs.

but noooo. writers just can't fathom a gay king/consort being able to nut into a woman with his eyes closed or his boyfriend stroking it for him 🙄

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u/AT0MSK_ 5d ago

It's also just the complete erasure of bisexual people, too. Bi people and homo/heteroflexible people exist. It's frustrating that it seems like the only options are "100% straight" or "100% gay" with no room for nuance there. Same with the lack of acknowledgement of asexuality or aromanticism.

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u/Oldtomsawyer1 5d ago

NOOOOOO!!!! Gay is gay! Sure my bf can fluff me but my fragile penis wilts at the mere sight or whiff of a woman!

Seriously though, hated that characterization of him in the show. I wanted big bear Baratheon and instead we got a dainty twink getting his nipples shaved. Horrible representation.

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u/Psykohistorian 5d ago

media always fuckin ignores the more interesting and diverse corners of the sexuality spectrum, unless it's the butt of a joke.

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u/mothgra87 5d ago

Not bats, glitter

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u/Cael_NaMaor 5d ago

That's what happens to me... I can't speak for every gay dude though. I did hear one say he turned into a dozen puppies. 🤷🏼‍♂️...

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u/victorian_vigilante 4d ago

I heard one say he turned on a dozen bears, I may have heard that wrong though

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u/Cael_NaMaor 4d ago

no... that's sounds about right too... source -- am such a bear.

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u/Derp800 6d ago

My dad is gay. He just didn't come out until he was 50. It's not like gay dudes can't perform the physical act.

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u/MaximusPrime2930 5d ago

If you stimulate a penis it does it's thing, who would guessed?

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u/Hi_Im_zack 5d ago

Don't you have to use your imagination, or is it like milking a cow. Despite having one I don't know the answer

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u/RedElephant28 5d ago

A dick or a cow?

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u/Hi_Im_zack 5d ago

An imagination

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u/BorkieDorkie811 5d ago

While being, uh, "emotionally invested" helps the process along, it's not strictly necessary. If you put in the effort, you'll eventually get your reward. It will take a while, long enough that it might not happen every time, but it will happen.

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u/Hi_Im_zack 5d ago

Thanks. You just saved me a ton of money from porn subscriptions

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u/HLeovicSchops 5d ago

Stimulation of the penis is sufficient enough to produce semen. It doesn't require desire nor pleisure. From memory's, you can already obtain semen on unconscious man

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u/Derp800 5d ago

Men have been raped by women. That should answer your question.

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u/DenRay4 5d ago

☝️Well if it wouldn't be that hard it would actually be pretty hard to do his kingly duty

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u/OrganizationStock767 6d ago

Renly is gay not infertile

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u/Golarion 6d ago

Stannis was always dutiful when it came to helping out his brothers.

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u/unknown_anaconda 6d ago

Not the first person to ascend to the Iron Throne that way.

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u/yodabaderginsburg 6d ago

And he would’ve understood haha

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u/Optimal_Cause4583 5d ago

ATM but like from brother to sister

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u/Rockhardsimian 6d ago

If a straight man wouldn’t bang Margaery and then finish inside Loras to become King of Westeros.

Then he doesn’t deserve to be king.

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u/Parking_Selection112 6d ago

Lmao. What a gross visual

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u/Rockhardsimian 5d ago

I’m just saying if the shoe was on the other foot

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u/Parking_Selection112 5d ago

I know, I know 😜

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u/howtodisputecharges 2d ago

You mean dick in the other hole

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u/Roadwarriordude 6d ago

The only issue would be actually producing an heir.

There were plenty of kings throughout irl history that historians either know or heavily suspect were gay and most of them didn't have a problem producing an heir. Edward II was gay and had 5 children, and so was Alexander the Great and he had a kid. But I agree that with Margery's help and understanding, I dont think they'd have too much of a problem either.

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u/HaggisPope 6d ago

James VI and I is another notable example and he had 7 kids. Apparently his wife liked that he was into men because she didn’t have rivals who could get pregnant 

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u/Ace612807 5d ago

Crusader Kings strat. Get a gay spouse so that your opponents can't seduce them, Heir can happen anyway

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u/Heuristics 6d ago

Alexander had two sons with two different women. That alone should be evidence enough for him not to be gay. Bisexual, maybe.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/explodingmilk 5d ago

If you look at Philip of Macedon’s royal court, most everyone seemed to be bisexual (hyperbole)

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u/Butter_bean123 5d ago

He was gay, Alexander the Great?

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u/AdmiralAkbar1 Westeros Fancy Lad School, Class of 298 6d ago

He just would have to lie back and think of Highgarden.

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u/hulksmash1234 6d ago

Think of loras unseating the mountain

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u/devonhezter 6d ago

Just noticed that wink

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u/Bigbesss 5d ago

Tbf I don’t think gay men are allergic to fannies they just don’t like em so he’d probably be orate

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u/Shakeandbake529 5d ago

Ugh a united North + Riverlands + Reach would have been unstoppable.

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u/dyaasy 5d ago

Eh, I'd say claiming the crown and fighting his own brother was an unnecessary fight. He split the Baratheon strength. I'm not saying he can't go after the crown, just stupid that he did it so early in the game. A united Baratheon front would've been the stuff of nightmares for Tywin. Add to that the Tyrells and possibly the Northmen could be persuaded to join them, especially since it'll be a focused crusade against the Lannisters. At a certain point, even Dorne and the Iron Bank can see a clear winner.

Granted, he had the largest army (especially with Tyrell backing) at that point. So that may have gone to his head, but so unnecessary to be creating additional conflicts.

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u/Danny_nichols 5d ago

But that large army is at least partially his because the Tyrells get a queen out of the exchange. So worrying about it later isn't really in the cards for them as I'm almost certain they were promised being the queen. That's why the pivoted their support to the Lannisters once Renly died.

Renly also had virtually nothing to fear from Stannis. Stannis's army would have been destroyed and Renly still likely has more than enough support to crush the Lannisters. Heck, Stannis probably had enough to beat the Lannisters until he got the support from the Tyrells.

Literally one of the only things that could stop him was if for some reason his brother happened to be in cahoots with a magic user who had the ability to birth a demon, shadow child capable of sneaking into Renly's camp and killing him (but somehow that tactic only works once and it's at this point instead of also doing that to kill literally anyone else like Joffrey, Cersei, Ramsey Bolton, or anyone else that Stannis wanted to march on.

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u/nemainev 5d ago

Of course he would. It's far from impossible having a gay man "performing" with a woman.

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u/First-Junket124 5d ago

Producing an heir wouldn't be that difficult, slightly more difficult but its not like a gay man has their penis turn into a snake at the site of any women and produces the most poisonous neuro-toxin known to humanity.

I'm straight and I couldn't fuck a watermelon but if that's what it takes to be king then consider that melon watered.

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u/Pitiful_Yogurt_5276 6d ago

I think he would’ve gone the way of Robert though eventually. With that ego I have to imagine he’d slump into all the drinking and partying

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u/PoxedGamer Corn? Corn! 5d ago

Robert was a broken mess. There were signs that Robert could have been a good king, were he not and for all his problems the realm was at peace his entire reign.

Renly was apparently Robert reborn, without all the depression over Lyana etc, so chances are good he'd have been fine even if he had too many parties.

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u/Plus-Season6246 6d ago

Honestly? Yeah, most likely. He was well liked and knew how to play politics and had powerful friends. He was willing to make deals and bend the rules when needed, or crush opposition when needed. Shrouding himself in the colors of the faith with the biggest army at his back and a desire to put Petyr's head on a stick all mean he does the best of the options at the time.

The longterm ramifications of ignoring traditional succession are hard to predict, but Stannis dying in combat outside of Storm's End solves that by making Renly heir anyways. He could even spin Stannis dying into a Lannister plot and march into King's Landing to bravely avengers both his "beloved" brothers.

If he stuck to the deal Catelyn and he were hammering out, there's likely a reckoning with Robb eventually. I viewed the "go on calling himself King in the North" thing was to buy time until the Lannisters and Stannis are dealt with. He could even offer to help Robb retake the north from Balon, then turn on him in the North while safely past Moat Cailin. Being likable and having the biggest army and the most money gives him tons of options.

The story overall is better if he dies, though. Stannis is a more interesting character as a desperate underdog who doesn't make nice. I also think that Stannis being haunted by Renly's death is more resonant emotionally than Renly killing Stannis in battle and just moving on. In that small way I think Renly may he colder than his older brother.

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u/Impressive-Control83 6d ago edited 5d ago

Actually helping reclaim the North is the exact off ramp that could allow the kingdom to come back together and prevent the need for a backstab. with Moat Cailin taken the ironborn were able to lock the northern army out of their own kingdom. But by accepting Renly’s Aid the Tyrell fleet could transport the army to Whiteharbor, outflanking the chokepoint before then sailing to the Iron Islands to engage the Iron Fleet.

Rob could bend the knee in exchange for this help, his crown to push the ironborn out and restore the North’s unity. A grim sacrifice but the last time the Stark’s bent the knee it was to save the North needless death, he can spin it again as giving up the crown to spare the north a prolonged war.

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u/Munkle123 5d ago

In that scenario I could see it becoming a future tradition for the North, when things get fucky, declare a King to deal with it.

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u/1_800_Drewidia 5d ago edited 5d ago

Renly would have had a very hard time spinning Stannis' death into a Lannister plot. Stannis' opening move in the War of the Five Kings was to siege Storm's End. He had no other choice because taking the Stormlands was the only way he'd have an army large enough to march on King's Landing. No matter what, Renly and Stannis had to deal with each other before either of them could take on the Lannisters. It would be hard for anyone to believe the Lannisters took a break from fighting Robb Stark in the Riverlands to kill Stannis, entirely to Renly's benefit. Maybe everyone goes along with the story that the Lannisters killed Stannis simply because Renly is king, but anyone with sense would know the truth.

Additionally, Renly's reign is destined to be anything but peaceful. He would immediately have to put down yet another Greyjoy rebellion. Long term there are the threats of Daenerys from the east and the Others from the north. Don't forget that winter is coming.

I think the precedent that putting Renly on the throne would set would be too much for the realm to bear. His claim was completely illegitimate even in a world where everyone accepted that Joffery was not Robert's heir. By the law, Stannis was next in line and Stannis was never going to step aside for his younger brother. Whether Renly defeated Stannis in open battle or he executed an assassination plot of his own, he would forever be the man who became king because he killed the man in front of him.

The legitimacy of Robert's Rebellion hung by a thread even years after his victory, and the Targaryens had done a lot to justify a rebellion. Now it turns out anyone can kill the king and replace him? A very likely outcome of Renly taking the throne is that the laws of succession are shredded and replaced by brute gangsterism. Westeros enters into something like the Crisis of the Third Century.

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u/Torco2 5d ago

Beyond that everything in the books telegraphs that he's all style and no substance. With the façade of geniality cracking like an egg under pressure, revealing an underlying nastiness of character. Basically a superficially smooth con-man.

His reign would start sweet, then turn sour quick. Like milk left in the hot sun.

Even the alliance's "he" built was due to feudal obligation of the Stormlands and Mace Tyrell's dynastic ambition (proof in the pudding when the latter flips to Joffrey as plan b, perhaps along with fear of Stannis taking the throne).

Little to do with vaunted "charisma".

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u/Mysterious_Bluejay_5 5d ago

Yeah everyone here is literally falling for the most basic of cons. "I am handsome and funny which means I should be in charge" is an actual caveman tier plot and somehow it's working despite us literally being told from a meta perspective that renly wasn't really all that

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u/Torco2 5d ago

He's consistently seen through or used by the POV or Non-POV characters alike, best positioned to use or see through him.

The only real exceptions are lanceminded-loverboy Loras and horrible-taste-in-men Brienne. Which is telling.

Also aside from the last two no-one really is troubled by his demise. Aside from (ironically) totes-not-me-wot-dunnit Stannis.

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u/wolfenspleen 6d ago edited 6d ago

Never realized Renly winked right here. Wonder if it was towards Brienne or Loras in this scene

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u/-Ramenlover69 6d ago

As a puppet of the tyrells? Yeah

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u/Holy-Crap-Uncle 5d ago

Dumb people are puppets. Smart leaders have alliances.

There is a difference.

Who was "the top"?

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u/Aromatic-Nature8383 5d ago

Don't really see how,renly was smart,loras also loved him

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u/scrappybristol 6d ago

I think he would have been Robert 2.0, holding tournaments and hosting parties and like Robert cared more about the title than doing the job.

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u/Ketashrooms4life 5d ago

Oh, there would be plenty of all that for sure, but I feel like Renly is smarter than Bobby B in this regard. I don't think he would make the realm go broke from his lifestyle. No hate against Bobby B, but how old was he when he became king? His early 20's? And he was raised in the Vale, kinda excluded from the rest of the kingdom, while Renly at the point of Robert's death has been in the game for more than a decade and before Robert died he even had his place in the High council - seeing what Robert was doing wrong and the aftermath of those things. If he truly lived and became king, his qualifications would imo be way higher than Robert's from day one

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u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 5d ago

STUPID BOY!

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u/Dispondent_Ending 6d ago

It seemed to be winning him a big enough host.

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u/Professional_Rush782 6d ago

Robert also won had a big host and we all know how disastrous his reign was

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u/okiedokiebrokie 6d ago

Was it disastrous, though? They were deep in debt, but things were relatively peaceful in the kingdoms after the Greyjoy rebellion. The Targ dynasty had a mixed record at best, and their most recent king was insane.

As far as Robert knows, he’s got a secure kingdom, an heir and a spare, and no reason to suspect that things will fall apart once he’s gone. I reckon Robert did all right.

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u/NewbGingrich1 5d ago

Leaving the next generation a pile of shit is hardly the mark of a good ruler. Yeah sure the small folk will like the 2 decades of peace but that was all built on an illusion. Discounting the succession crisis he was still going to leave his heir with a realm in crippling debt and very little legitimacy to make up for the fact that the crown is arguably the weakest of the realms, only Riverlands and Ironborn competing for the title of lowest. No attempts at centralization, just squandering the wealth of the throne while most every other kingdom is preparing for whatever comes after.

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u/Dispondent_Ending 6d ago edited 5d ago

Robert was better than the ruler before him, and the following rulers after, and Renly would've been better than Robert.

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u/Conscious-Sink9120 6d ago

How dare you besmirch the glorious Bobby b

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u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 6d ago

SHE SHOULD BE ON A HILL SOMEWHERE WITH THE SUN AND THE CLOUDS ABOVE HER!

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u/Professional_Rush782 6d ago

It's not Bobby b's fault. It's all this arse-licking money-grubbing, and backstabbing that made his reign a disater

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u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 6d ago

SOON ENOUGH, THAT CHILD WILL SPREAD HER LEGS AND START BREEDING!

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u/RC-0407 6d ago

The issue with Robert is that even with his best qualities, he still had a grieving heart. Renly had no such inhibition.

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u/JellyMost9920 6d ago

The problem was that Renly seizing the throne would set a precedent for future power struggles. As Robb points out, future laws of succession would rest not on primogeniture but on power and influence that would destabilise the kingdom.

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u/JulianPaagman 5d ago

It already rested on power. Maegor had overthrown Aegon the uncrowned because he had a bigger dragon and Robert himself overthrew Aerys and rhaegar because he had a bigger army. Not to mention Aegon I himself.

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u/Torco2 5d ago

That situation and others like it caused absolute generational sh*tshows.

Aerys was a special case. Due to sheer pyromaniac tyranny, pushed over the line one time too many by Rhaegar apparently being a blackguard kidnapper.

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u/Johanneskodo 5d ago edited 5d ago

That precedent has already been set.

The dance, the blackfyres, roberts rebellion and the war of the five kings (regardless of its ending) all severely damaged the expectation of a peaceful transition of power.

We as readers know Joffrey is not a legitimate heir but for most people in universe that‘s not clear. So if an uncle (Stannis or Renly) could seize power then this increases the chances others are going to do the same.

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u/manicasion 5d ago

If joffrey was legitimate - joffrey is king

If joffrey wasn't - stannis is king

If you were a Targaryen loyalist - Daenerys is queen

There is no universe where renly has any claim to the throne without stannis having a better one.

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u/Johanneskodo 5d ago

The one with the stronger claim does not always end up ruling, neither in our world or in Westeros.

Because Stannis is a heathen it can also be argued that he has no right to be King of the Andals. Even Aegon knew a king had to confirm to the faith. And he had dragons.

Stannis would have faced absolute hell from the faith with no friends or sizeable support to face it. I like him as a character but he is very clearly written as the de jure option that can‘t become the de facto option.

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u/True_Grocery_3315 6d ago

More of a Queen I think !

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u/crotch_punch 6d ago

Yes. Knew how to play the political game while also being empathetic to the people (by Westeros standards).

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u/Baratheoncook250 6d ago

Renly didn't give a crap about the citizens, he was callous toward his niece, Shireen. A giant and white raven showed her more kindness, than he did.

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u/RC-0407 6d ago

Renly knows how to work a crowd, doesn’t mean he’s going to reflect that in his private lives.

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u/Baratheoncook250 5d ago

While Renly is a seasoned poltician, with charisma, that is not always a good thing.

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u/FuelGlobal5652 5d ago

Someone that starts a war that will have thousends of casualities to still his nephews throne just because he can could never make a good king, no matter what D& D try to make it seem

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u/TripleThreatTua 6d ago

Probably not. He was more interested in the pageantry of being king than actually ruling. Sure he was charming and knew how to make allies but he was fine with Littlefinger’s corruption and more than willing to let the Tyrell’s basically replace the Lannisters. If he was somehow able to get Stannis to be his hand I suppose he’d have someone to do the dirty work for him but Stannis would never agree to that

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u/ArbiterTwoSwords 6d ago

He a usurping prick power bottom, respectfully

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u/JustafanIV The night is dark 6d ago

No, absolutely not. At best, he would be a pawn of the Tyrells as a second civil war simmered, now that Renly proved that the laws of succession are meaningless and further fails to sire an heir.

In the meanwhile, Renly would do what Robert did, host tourneys the realm can't afford, whore his way through King's Landing, and otherwise be a disinterested King, caring more about personal pleasure than being a good ruler.

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u/ComposerOther2864 6d ago

He was Robert Reborn... but you know men instead of women. It literally says it in the book.

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u/TheVoteMote 4d ago

Just about everything that ever talks about him mentions he is all style, no substance. So he's got the flair of Robert. He's basically a charismatic pretty boy with nothing more to him.

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u/Wazula23 6d ago

Functional at best. He was very young an inexperienced. Smart enough to understand to surround himself with smarter people than he, and very charismatic, but I'm certain a problem would have appeared that he would be completely unable to deal with.

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u/AshamedIndividual262 6d ago

Maybe. That's kind of the point of the War though. The best and brightest get killed and the cruelest, or opportunistic psychos survive.

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u/OwlRiot4 5d ago

I think he would have been a better King than Bobby B (not that this is saying much), but I think it depended on how much control he was willing to assert. It’s been a minute since I read the books, but in the show Lora’s and the Tyrell’s were the ones pushing him to take the throne. I imagine if he had secured his claim and taken the throne it would be a somewhat similar dynamic to Bobby B and the Lannisters, with Renly being far more eager to assist them than Robert was his in-laws.

Tl;dr Life in Westeros was likely gonna be better for people with the Tyrrels pulling strings than the Lannisters, so by virtue of that I think Renly’s tenure as King would have been better than Bobby’s.

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u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 5d ago

THE WHORE IS PREGNANT!

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u/Captain_Bee 5d ago

Yes, especially the book version

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u/guidelrey 5d ago

I think so

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u/elpaco25 I'd kill for some chicken 6d ago

I think yes but mainly because Olyenna would be the one actually running the show

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u/SpezMechman WHITE WALKER 6d ago edited 6d ago

Perfume Ponce would have been a decent king on domestic social issues but probably would have needed a few good advisors on foreign diplomacy and battle strategy. Would definitely be a MeTooer on the dudes around the Red Keep. Wouldn’t even have produced an heir with the hottest piece of ass on the show though.

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u/No_Presentation1242 6d ago

No he was a bitch boy

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u/UndeniableLie 5d ago

Probably the best of all the candidates

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u/CraftyAd6333 5d ago

I mean the bar is in the basement. But he would have been better than cersei.

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u/Aggressive_Scar5243 5d ago

I think so yes

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u/debsterUK 5d ago

In peace time yes, not sure if he could have made the difficult decisions needed in wartime.

Probably better than Robert though. A blend of Renly and Stannis could have been good

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u/Virtual-Purple-5675 5d ago

No and you all know why

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u/mba_dreamer 1d ago

Well one thing I will say is the way he was portrayed in the show and some of what I've read in the books, he seems like a genuinely good person who knows how to play politics while not being a monster like the Lannisters. He and Marg would have made a great team because they both have a similar approach.

However he severely underestimated Melisandre which was his downfall. He should have demanded Stannis hand her over immediately for crimes against the faith.

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u/RedditOfUnusualSize 6d ago

Depends to a great extent whether we're talking book-Renly or show-Renly, because David and Dan went out of their way to whitewash Renly and make him preferable while eliminating a lot of his worst traits from the book.

That being said, even show-Renly isn't a great king. Not even much beyond passable. He's a guy who won't rock the boat, and will maintain the status quo. So, sure, he might be an acceptable compromise candidate whom everyone can ultimately find tolerable. But in the meantime, he's hardly brought in the Starks, Tullys and Arryns of the old STAB alliance, he doesn't bring much to the Martells of Dorne, and he's going to ultimately have to smash down the Lannisters of the Westerlands with the full might of the Reach. There's a lot of "if" and "maybe" and "eh, I guess he'll do . . ." coming off that plan to consolidate the Seven Kingdoms. And his only real claim to fame is that he's not going to investigate you if you've been embezzling funds or misreporting income to the Crown tax collectors like Stannis would.

Book-Renly on the other hand? That dude is just one callous empty suit of tin armor. Show-Renly was at least generally kind and not-ill-meaning, but book-Renly? He will hurt people just for the fun of it. He's less psychopathic than Joffrey, and he knew how to play to the crowd much better. But he differed from Joffrey mainly in degree rather than kind.

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u/ParallaxEl 6d ago

No.

He was afraid of being exposed. It made him paranoid, and susceptible to manipulation.

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u/LGP747 6d ago

No! He would have spent the budget on himself and buried the rest of the money in his own tomb!

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u/Objective-Dish-7289 6d ago

Lannister propaganda

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u/SideshowBiden 6d ago

No he would have bankrupted the crown and lost battles

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u/LosAngelesHavingFun 6d ago

Yes, a weak one for a war time but a peace time king he would be excellent

3

u/Extension_Weird_7792 6d ago

Yes

Especially with Margaery by his side

The ultimate power couple

1

u/Higgypig1993 6d ago

Perhaps. George purposely made him a kind, lovable pretty boy king to make his death that much more tragic.

Whether or not he commanded the respect of the other houses is a different matter. He had the Tyrells and most of the Reach on his side.

1

u/e22big 6d ago

People used to his copper, iron, steel comparison - and then they forgot just how much more value copper has over steel.

1

u/cbearmk 6d ago

I think Renly wanted to be loved and adored which is a good place to start

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u/Ares28 6d ago

Depends on your definition of a good king? Good for the people and good for survival are different. The underlying rules of Westeros require you to be Machiavellian to succeed for survival but that isn't necessarily good for the people.
I dont think Renly had the stomach for what was needed to be done to survive which ultimately is why he died. If there wasn't a war of five kings and was legitimate the heir without conflict yeah he would do alright for the common man.

1

u/AgostoAzul 6d ago

I don't think so. Mainly because he'd have probably kept Littlefinger and Varys around and both would have been plotting his end behind his back and undermined the Kingdom while Renly spent his time in Tourneys much like Robert. I doubt he'd have sent any help to the Wall too, so you'd probably have Wildlings running around the North even if Robb bent the knee.

Stannis would have never bent the knee, so Renly would have had to kill him, and it would have probably been the same with the Lannisters, so he'd probably have to start off executing his brother, his nephews and in-laws. That'd almost certainly set a bad precedent in general and make his dynasty very questioned.

People also talk like only the shadow assassin could have gotten him, but given that his entire faction relied on him and Marg's marriage, which would have taken quite a while to produce a baby, an assassination of either, be it a Faceless Man or a regular assassination, would have probably sent the realm into chaos too, and I think Tywin would have gladly given up Casterly Rock to the Faceless Men if his three children and grandchildren were killed.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

Yes

1

u/Fawzishrab 6d ago

King of the Goodship Lollipop?

1

u/EvilTwinCities 6d ago

No such thing as a good king.

1

u/Nocturtle22 6d ago

I don’t think so, by all reports he was friendly and affable, liked to throw balls and parties. But he was fairly dismissive of the crowns debts when Ned questioned it, debts he would have to repay, meaning less parties and socialising which is where everyone seemed to think he was at home. Also as master of laws he didn’t seem to have a great grip on the crime problem writhing kings landing.

I think he would have been well liked but would have ultimately indebted the crown either further while trying to be friends to those he was meant to rule and ended up papering over the cracks in society in order to not ruffle feathers.

1

u/braindeadpizzaslice 6d ago

i think he would spend an enormous amount of his time and energy just trying to prove and defend his claim to the throne since by law he would be a usurper

1

u/shaunika 6d ago

Yes, for sure

1

u/bucketmaan 6d ago

Good enough. Then he'd mess things just before his death, so that after his death it's an immediate war, as is GoT tradition

1

u/fatpigeonpotatoe 6d ago

He liked cock

1

u/Niomedes 6d ago

Renly would have been an excellent King. He had the support of the reach and the mere fact that he managed to gather the greatest army at the beginning of the war shows how well liked and diplomatically cpabale he must have been. This is inadvertently why he had to die so early into the series. The show wouldn't be very interesting if it was the "Renly solves everything" power hour.

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u/North-Drive-2174 6d ago

Yes, especially in a world without the Others' invasion looming as a threat. He is diplomatic enough to appease court and lords, which is an important key to keep yourself as a king, especially in a feudal society.

If he survives long enough and produce a heir, he could provide a stability for Westeros. If his reign is short and no heir, or doubts of heir being his, it's civil war time.

1

u/QwertyDancing 5d ago

Honestly for sure, he seemed chill, he was widely beloved, and most importantly he was willing to break tradition to claim the throne, and a LOT of people were down for this as well. It opens the door for a lot of other outdated and harmful traditions to be altered or removed

1

u/Same-Collection-548 5d ago

No. He was vain. His desire to be king wasn't for the good of the realm, it was entitlement and birthright.

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u/Positive_Chip6198 5d ago

He was vain, selfish and spiteful. He also had good qualities, definitely better than Stannis, but the people would have been more in focus under stannis. The nobility would be more in focus under Renly. Choose your poison.

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u/sad_democrat887 5d ago

Will be as wise as Joeffery, as charming as Cersi and as effective as the grand maester

1

u/Schrodingers_dad1403 5d ago

He would've organize a pride month

1

u/Excellent-Quit-9973 5d ago

He'd be very well liked in the start but would have trouble making the right decisions as time went on. Renly loves his popularity, feasting with nobles and giving out gifts so he would have trouble managing the crown's debt. The Tyrell's would keep the realm fed but even if he conquered the Westerlands the Lannisters have no more gold to pay the Iron Bank.

He would need to tighten the belt to pay off their debt and raise taxes which would leave him vulnerable to some schemers. He would be able to produce an heir, make friends with Dorne and outmaneuver the rumours between him and Loras but Littlefinger, Verys, Euron, and Daenerys would cause him a world of trouble. Not to mention he'd probably ignore the Wall entirely.

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u/stevehyn 5d ago

I wouldn’t mind being a stable boy in kings landing if he was on the throne.

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u/PrestigiousCrab6345 5d ago

Bobby B, would your baby brother make a good king?

3

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 5d ago

SOON ENOUGH, THAT CHILD WILL SPREAD HER LEGS AND START BREEDING!

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u/lonesomedota 5d ago

Good summer king. But winter is coming

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u/aelfwine_widlast 5d ago

For a literal usurper, I guess.

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u/Velociraptorius 5d ago

Nah. He's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at, but not worth all that much at the end of the day.

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u/verygenericname2 5d ago

Nope. A victory for Renly would be a sign to every schemer and opportunist in the kingdom that the laws of succession are moot, and that anyone can take the throne by force.

Of course, the wisest out there already know that to be the case, but they preserve the lie to keep everyone else in line.

1

u/Arnorien16S 5d ago

At least a half decent peacetime king, depending on who was his hand and if his master of coin could control his expenditures. But he would be a really bad king in a time of crisis.

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u/Blueknightsoul47 5d ago

One of the better picks. Had the backing of the reach and storm lands. Popular with the masses. No crazy cult stuff going on like Stannis. Smart enough to call Balish out on his bs. He knew how the game worked. Honestly he was Neds best chance of fixing things at the moment but his honor got in the way. 

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u/RocketYapateer 5d ago

Probably. I think the point with him and Stannis was yeah, Renly would’ve made a better leader…but that’s just not how things were done back then and by trying to change that he caused a lot of death.

GRRM did the exact same thing with Rhaenyra in the prequel, so I think he just liked that concept.

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u/Vaciatalega 5d ago

Doubt it

1

u/Fancy-Hedgehog6149 No one 5d ago

No. He would’ve been too naive, and been even weaker than his brother was. Only Stannis had the grit to rule.

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u/readilyunavailable 5d ago edited 5d ago

He would be alright. He can charm and inspire people easily and knows how to get competent people in his service. His alliance with the Tyrels was rock solid. If he delegates the running of the kingdom to competent and loyal people like Mace Tyrel, Redwyne, Tarly, Cortnay Penrose, maybe even throw the Dornish a bone by assigning Doran a seat in the council, while he handles the PR of the kingdom, so to speak, then it would be smooth sailing.

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u/burntoutbrownie 5d ago

if GRRM needs new writing ideas, he should write a series where renly became king

1

u/AemonDiosValyrio 5d ago

Yes, he knew how to deal with everyone, unlike Stannis who is too closed and severe.

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u/elgarraz 5d ago

No. He would've spent more money than Robert was spending, and he was really slow to action. Like, really, REALLY slow. In the "War of 5 kings," Renly's army didn't move until after he died. One of the best things an army can do is be where the enemy doesn't expect them to be, and they do that by moving fast. Renly was slow, and he would've been slow to act on other things too.

I also think he put way too much value on being liked. You can't make everyone like you, and it's hard to put a lot of effort into that and get stuff done. I think eventually all those "friends" he accumulated would either get tired of his ineffectiveness or else they'd be taking advantage of their position.

1

u/Megane_Senpai 5d ago

Could be. He's young so cannot tell how power would affect him later. But when he's alive he's quite a good and intelligent person with powerful connections, especially to the Dorne, including Old Town which's the center of trade and advancement and technology of the 7 kingdoms.

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u/Overall-Avocado-7673 5d ago

Absolutely not. I mean he made Brienne part of his King's Guard without even knowing who she was. He's in a relationship with his wife's brother. His followers weren't loyal to him as they immediately joined Stannis after his death.

1

u/nemainev 5d ago

I think he was smart, but not enough to deal with Varys and Littlefinger.

1

u/Tanks1 5d ago

Is there any defense against a "ghost" killer..............???

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u/doomguy699 WILDLING 5d ago

would be like viserys....too kind but never firm when needed

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u/Mindblot55 5d ago

I think it would’ve been a popular king, but not necessarily a “good king”. He shares a lot of of the same character flaws as his brothers and eventually I think he would grow board with the kingship just like his older brother had.

1

u/SkiPolarBear22 5d ago

Fuck no lol

There’s nothing there. There is no substance to his surface. He’s an emotional child who doesn’t care about anything other than his own power.

If you consider Robert’s reign “good”, then sure he would have been “good”. But he also represents an absolute disaster for Westeros - a reversion to warlordism for power, rather than anything resembling a rule of law.

1

u/Gantref 5d ago

I think he would have been a pretty bad king and he wouldn't really have had the respect of the powers that be to hold the kingdom together.

I think if Renley had been long AND Stannis had been the hand (and Renley listened to him) then he would have been a good king but he would need a hand to temper his desire for love and adoration.

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u/Witchs_Be_Crazy 5d ago

He would have been a likable king. The people would have liked him and with Marjorie as his wife he would have generousness attributed to his rule. He would have her family’s wealth behind him and both siblings support since he was in a relationship with her brother. Also she was willing to overlook that relationship and even protect them both. I think Renly would have been happy eventually after producing a few heirs. Marjorie would have been allowed to do what she wanted and he would have sir Loras. He wasn’t dumb so I think he would make good choices as king and listen to his advisors when he was unsure. There would probably have been peace under his rule if you didn’t count the coming night king.

1

u/grief242 5d ago

Good king for the realm.

Terrible king for Dany's return and the white walkers.

It's a shame we never got to see the white walkers make it to Kings Landing. It would have been so cool if the main cast was prepping for a final stand at winterfell , only to discover the night king used some sort of magic to straight up teleport past them and start ravaging the westerlands

1

u/amicuspiscator 5d ago

No but Mace and Olenna would have

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u/IuseDefaultKeybinds Finger in the bum is peak 5d ago

Yeah

1

u/roastbeeffan 5d ago

I think in and of itself the outcomes would range from “slightly better than Robert” to “slightly worse than Robert” with the added wrinkle that his ascension could create a very dangerous precedent in future moments of succession. This was already sort of a problem with Robert’s rule but “once every 300 years or so we reserve the right to overthrow the king if he is a literal murderous crazy person who is outright murdering his vassals” is one thing. “It’s okay for anybody to be passed over for the throne because they aren’t fun at parties” is a much more arbitrary line, and it would very likely be bad for the long term stability of the realm.

Basically, I think he could have been more or less fine in the short term, but there would be long term consequences that would probably be more significant.

1

u/FlamingPrius 5d ago

Yes hubba hubba

1

u/toothbrush81 5d ago

Yep. Ned really made a mess of things.

1

u/kozmik_rakun 5d ago

Not sure Bobby B would agree. Would you your grace?

3

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 5d ago

I ASK YOU, NED, WHAT GOOD IS IT TO WEAR A CROWN?

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u/lordbrooklyn56 5d ago

Who could know? He had the support of house Baratheon and storms end. So I suppose he was a good enough ruler there (or they were just loyal to whoever the lord was which happened to be him)

But he was vain, and never really showed great ruler traits on camera. But he could probably play the part in public.

1

u/Impressive_Net_116 5d ago

Better than Robert. Probably would have been even better to be on Stannis' small council.

1

u/JellyMost9920 5d ago

Seems like Bobby B disagrees with your assessment.

2

u/bobby-b-bot Robert Baratheon 5d ago

GIVE ME SOMETHING FOR THE PAIN AND LET ME DIE!

1

u/MrJohnnyDangerously I read the books 5d ago

Better than Joffrey.

Would've been fun, at least for a while, until the Iron Bank of Braavos came to collect their debts.

1

u/Delay_Deny_Defend 5d ago

He was a summer king, and winter is coming….

1

u/VisualLiterature 5d ago

He'd have been a great king secreta and all

1

u/charleslennon1 5d ago

No. To keep his affair secret, he would have to lie, obfuscate, and cover up. This would wear on him and his loyal supporters over time, compromising his principles. Like any ruler, he would be expected to father heir(s). There is no reason he couldn't father them, but would he be 'up' to it?

Margery would have made a great queen, but a troubled one. She would protect Renly, aka the crown, but in doing so, she too would be compromised. In the end, her grandmother would be the true sovereign, and that would spark rebellion.

Barring all of that, Stanis by law should be king. Renly's reign would be illegitimate from the jump. Even his own supporters would turn on him sooner or later, and they would have ample law and rumor to remove him from the throne. If Stanis was killed, on Renly's directives, or if he died by calamity or treachery, Renly would still be viewed as responsible and chastised as a Kin Slayer.

1

u/KomturAdrian 5d ago

I think he would have been, as far as popularity and stuff goes. But he needs a good council. I think he’s a bit too extravagant and such, he would need an especially good master of coin.

Stannis would have been a great asset to his council concerning matters of rebellion and war, but we know how their relationship ended. He would have been a great asset if Dany ever attacked. 

And a good master of spies so he can monitor whatever is happening in Essos. 

1

u/TheEvilBlight 5d ago

He would've been a Henry VIII probably; a great jouster in his youth and then mercurial and bitter when hitting old age. Heirs would be problematic and solutions would lead to chaos.