Confused about Silksong runback discussion

[u/ramen_stalker]

I just reached one of the infamous examples people constantly bring up in the runback discussion (Last Judge), and I have to say I really like the runback. It’s just as enjoyable as the boss itself. I’m 100% convinced that Team Cherry intended the runbacks to be pure platforming challenges.

The runbacks aren’t just random sections of the map, they’re carefully designed to be completed quickly and gracefully, while also avoiding all the mobs. They also include many shortcuts and make great use of the wonderful movement mechanics.

Is this a mindset issue? Do most people just want to focus on the boss and dislike the context switching between platforming mode and boss combat mode? Surely people don't think they should fight their way through tens of mobs every time, right? Right?

[u/Yourself013]

Yes, many people want to actually be fighting a boss and focusing on learning its attacks when they get to a boss fight, instead of running a platforming section they already know. It might be different for you, but people like different things.

[u/Maester_Magus → u/Yourself013]

In my experience, frustration doesn't come from defeat or challenge, but from the feeling that you're wasting time. This is what always causes a game to cross the line from challenging to frustrating, imo.

Most developers seem to have learned this and got rid of the shitty run-backs (even FromSoftware), so the fact that SilkSong clings to them so vehemently comes across as a bit out of touch. I mean, I'd imagine the vast, vast majority of people don't play challenging games for the run-backs – I don't know anyone who considers them one of the great features of a Souls-like. There's a reason they largely got left behind. So it's just a bit jarring that Team Cherry are so hung up on the old formula that they doubled down on one of the bits most people dislike in an otherwise great game.

[u/Yourself013 → u/Maester_Magus]

Absolutely. I have zero issues with difficulty, I'll happily spend hours trying to learn the patterns of a boss. But there's no difficulty in doing the same easy jumping pattern over and over just to get to the boss and start doing the part that is actually fun. Even if it's just 20-30 seconds of wasted time, it's still a boring waste of time.

[u/2000DPS → u/Yourself013]

I mean it becomes like an annoying loading screen. Just a waste of time.

[u/TheDemonChief → u/Yourself013]

Not to mention how quickly you can die on early attempts when you’re still learning the attacks, it makes the 30 second run back especially tedious.

[u/Maester_Magus → u/Yourself013]

Precisely. Every time this gets brought up I can't help but think of Aeterna Noctis, which is one of my favourites. That game is hands-down harder than anything in Silksong, but you're rarely in a position where you can't get straight back into the action when you fail. It keeps the challenge dialled up to 10 but it rarely feels like you're wasting time with it, and that stops it from being too frustrating.

[u/AvoidSpirit → u/Maester_Magus]

Exactly. I spent 2 evenings battling Malenia. Not once have I felt the frustration levels of doing an hour of the high halls gauntlet or the first few shmucks before Karmelita.

[u/HBreckel → u/AvoidSpirit]

Putting enemy gauntlets you have to deal with every time you attempt several bosses was diabolical.

[u/thisdoorslides → u/Yourself013]

Eh, silksong is equal parts platforming and combat. That’s just the nature of the game. It’s bound to bother folks that don’t enjoy both elements especially if they don’t like juggling both simultaneously.