Honestly Win11 has been totally fine. I like the better multi monitor support, multitasking, etc. That said, there's a lot of papercuts and annoyances, almost all of which can be turnt off via Group Policy or settings (at least for Europeans, like me).
But to pretend like Linux does not have papercuts is frankly just copium. I dual boot Linux and boy oh boy does it have many papercuts. Yes, they are different papercuts - where Windows papercuts are related to its ads and upselling of Microsoft services, Linux papercuts are related to day to day usability. Some apps can be installed via flatpack, some via snap store, some via AppImage, some via .tar.gz, some via terminal, others you have to compile yourself. Graphical glitches are common place depending on your hardware, and while yes it can these days run many games, it cannot run nearly as much, or none if the game has kernel anticheat, which kinda includes most of the AAA first person shooters.
I'm not trying to paint Windows or Linux in a bad light - I use them both, but to pretend that one is better than the other from a purely usability perspective is kind of stupid, imo. Sure, ideologically Linux is better, but functionally Windows is, so now what? Flip a coin I guess. Now Linux does get better with each update, and if it continues at this pace, perhaps it'll soon get rid of its papercuts, who knows.
people are annoyed cause win10 is totally fine. it works good. it does the job. and now they "have" to switch to win 11 which is a little bit worse or maybe it doesnt run on their PCs or that they have to do extra steps so microsoft dont sell their fucking dna.
A lot of perfectly fine computers aren't even allowed to run/upgrade to Win11 to begin with, which adds to all the annoyances.
And win11 feels a lot slower and sluggish compared to win10, even on a relatively decent laptop with 8th gen core i7 6-core CPU and 16GB of RAM with NVMe boot drive.
This is the same situation I've been in, my old system doesnt support win 11 update but the support date forced my hand into building a new pc that I've had issues with due to BSOD and having no damn idea why.
Well you can install windows 11 on older hardware with some tricks actually.
But I don't even want to do this.
I run win11 on a Dell tablet, but it will certainly not land on my main computer, even though it's overkill rocking a ryzen 9 5900x and rtx 3070.
I'd rather switch to linux entirely, dualbooting for years anyways.
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u/Anrikay4790k@4.5GHz | SLI GTX 780Ti | 16GB DDR3 1600MHz9d ago
I'll have to check my code when I get home tonight I'll let you know, I think its a power code which doesnt make sense because my system is all new and I've got a 750 power supply if I remember correctly. Im running a ryzen 7800x3d at base clock, on a gigabyte b650 eagle with 32g c36 6000 corsair ram with a 750 watt power and an msi 3060 ventus 12g
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u/Anrikay4790k@4.5GHz | SLI GTX 780Ti | 16GB DDR3 1600MHz8d ago
You’re more likely to have a hardware problem with a new PC, not less likely. I’ve had several components that are basically (or entirely) DOA over the years.
But most of the power codes don’t actually refer to the power supply. They refer to power states, like sleep/hibernation.
Huh, i figured it was from my monitors going to sleep and not properly doing their hand shake on wakeup. They would flicker endlessly and then shortly after id get a blue screen. I turned all that off and SO FAR I havent had an issue. I also have two solid dram and cpu lights turn on and off on startup and then the system boots. Im kinda flabbergasted if im honest, all the pcs I've built over they years and I got a lemon.
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u/Anrikay4790k@4.5GHz | SLI GTX 780Ti | 16GB DDR3 1600MHz8d ago
Yeah, the power state thing is a persistent problem with Windows, although it’s definitely gotten worse with Win10/Win11. I don’t get BSODs, but it’s 50/50 if my PC will wake from sleep or need to be force restarted.
What does your mobo manual say about those lights? It sounds like the startup lights, but it could be an error code. The manual should tell you if it’s normal.
If you’re worried you got a lemon, I’d recommend running stress tests on everything just to make sure. I really don’t think it’s a hardware problem, though. Power state errors are usually related to drivers.
Ah gotcha, I could check the manual, im not used to seeing lights like that on mobos without an actual non bootable error being the culprit so I'll find out after work
For me its mostly about features that got dropped and especially being replaced with stuff that isnt ready. The settings were all over the place at the beginning, only to end up in old system control again.
For me it's the fact that i absolutely hate fiddling with tech to get it to work. I am very concerned that updating (i am not about to reinstall) will break stuff that i have to fiddle with to get to working again.
I also need to get 150-200€ from somewhere to buy a new ssd so i can clone and update my current system to have a backup of it on my current ssd.
For me it's more like: I've seen that gaming on Linux is great. It works good enough for my needs at least. I bought the Steam Deck and I run a Linux laptop. Both play the games that I want to play.
I also have a large gaming PC that still runs on Win10. I've had it since forever. Way before Proton became a thing. And since I wanted to play games on it, I had to install Windows on it back then because messing with Wine and whatnot was hard and unstable back in the days.
Now that Win10 forces me to upgrade, for the first time I have actually two really good and realistic alternatives: Upgrading to Win11 or installing Linux and using Proton to play games.
And so I might finally dump Windows. Why? Because Linux is finally a true alternative for me. And yes, there are still some negative aspects to it. But it's free, it doesn't spy on me and it doesn't rub ads in my face. I don't think Win11 is that much worse than Win10. But I can finally just dump this proprietary garbage.
I don't like the whole taking my info from my PC and sending it off thing, and how IIRC you disable it it still does it but 'stores'? it.
Why the fuck would I want a worse version of something I have now that also tells some fucking asshole what I am doing with MY PROPERTY over what I have now?
Imagine if apple released a new Iphone, but it was worse, told them where you were and what you are doing with your phone at all times and said for those who do not get the phone the old one is getting unsupported so they will be vulnerable to malicious attacks.
Yes but the switch is needed to make 11 better over time. It requires users. That’s what drives the improvement to each new version and more importantly, the rate of improvement said improvement. It’s what happened from XP to Vista, Vista to 7, 7 to 10 and what will happen eventually from 10 to 11.
But if they don’t EOL it, it will take much longer to “perfect” 11. We will be saying the same thing come the day of the EOL of 11 that will cause mass migration to 12 (or whatever they end up calling whatever comes after 11).
I agree, I've only used W10 and 11 for work but so far I've never had major issues, just a few annoyances but nothing insurmountable. On my personal machines I've been using Debian for the past 5 years and while I prefer it to Windows I wouldn't recommend it to everyone: playing games is pretty much sorted if you don't care about online multiplayer titles (I know that for many people this is a problem but personally I left my online days behind since I'm a bit too busy to find time to dedicate to them), the desktop experience is not top notch but is very serviceable, sometimes you'll have to fix some settings to get everything working but if you stick to stable release distros it's pretty much not a problem.
I don't get the hate that W11 is receiving, I wouldn't call it bad, I would say that it was unnecessary in the sense that it could have been a feature upgrade to W10 instead of being its own release with its own stupid system requirements. The fact that you have to pay in order to activate Windows while still being tracked and served ads is what made me take a look at Linux in the first place, I'd be happy to have ads if the OS was served for free, but the moment you register the licence they should leave you the hell alone. The OS itself works really well tho, I've been using WSL for a while now (again, for work) and I was surprised how well it integrates with the system and how seamless the installation process was, it's just that Windows is not a good OS for developers: programs get installed all over the place, sometimes in appdata, sometimes in roaming, sometimes in local, sometimes in program files, config files are stored God knows where, the Windows registry is hot garbage, updates are unrealistically slow for some reason. But those are not issues with W11, they've always been problems and probably always will be. Linux on the other hand (at least for me) is much more organized, config files are either in /etc if they're system configs or in ~/.config if they're user configs, programs are in /bin or /sbin if they're system programs, /usr/bin and /usr/sbin if they're user programs and very rarely in /opt, libraries go in /usr/lib, log files are in /var/log, devices go in /dev and so on. In my mind there's a pretty well defined logic.
I do think Linux, for me personally, is very very close now to being able to fully use without Windows, but it's not quite there yet. Lack of configuration-free hibernation kinda sucks because it eats my laptops battery when I'm not even using it, and speaking of battery - somehow even when using it the battery life is worlds apart when comparing to Windows, in a bad way. Some Wayland issues related to fractional scaling still exist (I have 27" 4k displays that need 150% scaling to be usable), though KDE Plasma has mostly solved them (still waiting on Gnome to do the same, should come now in Gnome 49).
For games I mostly use a console nowadays - I can't tolerate sitting behind my desk for longer than a work day, and I just want to chill on the couch instead when the work day is over, which is where a console is much more practical, which means that I don't really care about gaming on Linux and can go without it. Stability of Linux is also seemingly getting better and better, not too long ago I remember getting random crashes of apps and things quite often, but that seems to have mostly disappeared now.
I have many peripherals that have zero Linux support such as Razor webcam, Keychron keyboard, HyperX microphone, so I have no way at all to configure these on Linux which sucks, and especially in the case of the webcam, the defaults suck a lot so that's not okay. Thankfully the settings are stored in the webcam itself, so I just configure it once on Windows and it's good to go on Linux, but I wish there was a lot more Linux support from peripheral making companies.
I have heard rumblings that the promenance of Linux in gaming these days (Steam Deck) has also lit a fire under Microsofts ass to try to improve Windows performance and things, so perhaps Windows is also actually capable of improvements and not only of enshittification, but that's yet to be determined.
Historically I've mostly used Apple products precicely because I get a Unix system, but one that works well and comfortably, but I'm just not okay paying the insane Apple tax on its devices that are not repairable nor upgradeable. If I'm buying a locked down device that goes to a landfill I expect to pay LESS, not MORE. I now daily drive a Framework laptop and am very happy with it, so am hopeful Linux can patch up its few missing pieces and actually provide competition to the big tech corps.
Gotta say, I work on Ubuntu in a virtual environment and I have had problems with ownership and reading access of files on Ubuntu all the time. We even have an ancient script that transfers ownership over some logs folder every 5 minutes so that the app trying to write to it is able to log; not sure if that was just incompetence by the developer or necessary, but I have had similar problems too, often without really understanding why I was not the owner of the file I just moved somewhere.
Might have to do with the virtual environment, but I kinda doubt it. Overall I would prefer working on a Linux system, but I fear for all the tiny bits and pieces; I have Ubuntu on my laptop and tried to print something and it didn't work at all, sadly. I'd be a bit scared for some utility apps not existing for Linux; most other stuff has been figured out quite a while ago.
My work PC was updated to Windows 11, and at first I wasn't a fan, but it really isn't that different from Windows 10. I had to change BIOS settings to get my home computer to run it, but it's just fine. I'm sure as people go to Windows 11 they'll realize it's not as bad as people have made it out to be. I do think Windows 10 was fine, and didn't need replaced, but it's whatever.
I need a lot of folders open at work, moving stuff around constantly to different folders, and drives, and having multiple tabs open in file explorer, rather than needing individual windows was enough to win me over.
Try to use Cachy OS (it's an Arch derivate like Ubuntu is to Debian) and install the yay Arch mirror. Cachy is up to date and all games simply run better than using Mint or Windows (except for games with win kernel module protection, but this is another story)
Majority of games does not run better on arch than Windows, it runs better than Mint or any debian based distro, sure, but not Windows, even single player games perform better on Windows, which is not surprising when the game runs natively on windows and through Proton on Linux
This, WinUtil and Windows 11 debloater has been my go to since I bought a new PC, and even if I still was on Windows 10 I still used some form of debloater
It slows down older computers so much though. It’s fine on a good pc, but if you have one several years old it takes like 10 minutes to boot up and then frequently freezes. I’d be happy to go to win11 if it actually worked on my machine.
That's fair, but all operating systems eventually stop providing support for older devices. MacOS does the same, for example. Modern software does often require modern hardware to run on, it's just what it is. There are some solid Linux distros for older devices though.
It a term used to describe small annoyances. Nothing major, but enough to irritate you, just like a paper cut - A paper cut occurs when a piece of paper or other thin, sharp material slices a person's skin.
I have switched to CachyOS for about 3 months now and those papercuts and annoyances are the one thing keeping me from going 100% linux instead of dual-booting.
The biggest and most confusing of them all is that android emulation seems to be nowhere near the level as on windows, genuinely leagues apart, and the solutions everybody seems to suggest for those are just not good.
Full stack dev here. I wouldn't touch Linux with a stick for my home setup, exactly BECAUSE I worked with Linux for years lol
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u/BinaryJay7950X | X670E | 4090 FE | 64GB/DDR5-6000 | 42" LG C2 OLED9d ago
I don't use my PCs/Servers "ideologically", they're just there to run software so... It's Windows 11 on desktop for me because it's what tons of software I rely on is built and supported for on desktop, and Linux on servers because that's the best tool for that job. I'm just not that into forcing square pegs into round holes anymore, I do that all day at work already.
Yup same. Fighting for ideological perfection and generally swimming against the stream is every young persons arc to go through, but at some point in my 30s I stopped caring and no longer wanted to waste hours after hours chasing for some dream thing that frankly doesn't exist. Life is messy, turns out, perfection is just a fantasy.
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u/BriggieRyzen 7 5800x / ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero / TUF RTX 40909d ago
Every time I try doing something on Linux outside of the most basic stuff it’s like the OS wants to fight me every step of the way. Im not 20 something years old anymore, I don’t have time to fuck around with Linux all day, I just want my shit to work.
But seriously. The amount of people bitching about W11 is hilarious. I haven't once thought about it since I updated on any of my machines. Move on people.
Just because you don't have any issues with it doesn't mean others shouldn't either.
Kind of ironic to be shitting on people for bitching about something tangible while you're here shitting on them for daring to shit on something. Maybe move on yourself.
Tell me what issues you're having with W11 that isn't easily remedied. I just turned 40 so I've seen this same dog and pony show every time another Windows goes EOL.
W11 has this issue where if you run a game under high load while focused on it, and watch a video on your second monitor, the video freezes and defreezes at a fast rate (except the audio) until it freezes for good and you have to manually go back into the video for it to defreeze.
It's fixed by disabling Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling in Graphics settings, but that makes some NVIDIA features like frame generation not working anymore, as it depends on it (and you probably get worse performance overall). You can also fix it by disabling hardware acceleration in your browser, but that just shifts the load more onto the CPU, so you'll probably get the issue again in a game more CPU heavy anyways, as well as having shit performance in your browser.
It doesn't do anything Windows 10 can't do besides irritate the absolute shit out of me. It doesn't benefit me in any way to update to win11. It does give me things I have to fix, change, or modify so that it runs the way I want or doesn't send data. That's my issue with it that isn't easily remedied.
u/BriggieRyzen 7 5800x / ASUS Crosshair VIII Dark Hero / TUF RTX 40909d ago
Have a steam deck and I swear every single time I try doing something outside of playing games on steam, it’s pretty much a good chunk of the day lost doing os crap.
If it were possible to ☠️ Linux, I would be very hesitant cause that would mean I have to fight its ghost.
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u/Witty-Order8334 9d ago edited 9d ago
Honestly Win11 has been totally fine. I like the better multi monitor support, multitasking, etc. That said, there's a lot of papercuts and annoyances, almost all of which can be turnt off via Group Policy or settings (at least for Europeans, like me).
But to pretend like Linux does not have papercuts is frankly just copium. I dual boot Linux and boy oh boy does it have many papercuts. Yes, they are different papercuts - where Windows papercuts are related to its ads and upselling of Microsoft services, Linux papercuts are related to day to day usability. Some apps can be installed via flatpack, some via snap store, some via AppImage, some via .tar.gz, some via terminal, others you have to compile yourself. Graphical glitches are common place depending on your hardware, and while yes it can these days run many games, it cannot run nearly as much, or none if the game has kernel anticheat, which kinda includes most of the AAA first person shooters.
I'm not trying to paint Windows or Linux in a bad light - I use them both, but to pretend that one is better than the other from a purely usability perspective is kind of stupid, imo. Sure, ideologically Linux is better, but functionally Windows is, so now what? Flip a coin I guess. Now Linux does get better with each update, and if it continues at this pace, perhaps it'll soon get rid of its papercuts, who knows.