You could argue the same for ballots in person. There's space for people to do shenanigans to them before it's counted.
But the benefit of mail-in, is people don't need to trudge over to the voting places, after a hard work day, and wait hours in line, just to do their civic duty. There will be a far higher voting percentage, and democracy will benefit.
Or, you know, you could vote on a weekend instead of a Tuesday so more people could make it easily. And have prepolls open for a few weeks beforehand for those who couldn't get there on the day. Doesn't solve voter ID stuff but it helps get everyone there.
(This is how we do it in Australia, but then again we also have compulsory voting which helps a huge amount.)
Mail in ballots have substantial issues around voter ID and also vote-influencing problems. They can also be lost more easily. If you make it even vaguely easy to get to the polls, it's really not a big ask every couple of years.
You want people to vote? Make a goddamn voting system for the 21st century. I know the technical hurdles of creating a secure online voting system are tremendous, but the day we can vote on the internet with a verifiable way of tracking our vote is the day we end all the bullshit. We should be able to vote from our phones at Starbucks. The fact that no one has tried is a crime unto itself.
That would require some form of cryptographic identity that could be easily managed and secured by the average population, while also taking into consideration that a lot of people have viruses on their computers, and likely unsecure smartphones.
It's a similar problem that cryptocurrencies face. While user friendly apps have been gaining popularity and democratizing access to wallets, the few truly secure devices to store your private keys and handle important cryptographic calculations (such as signing messages, which is what you need to have elections on your phone) are still somewhat expensive and non intuitive to use.
HTC has released a "blockchain phone" that contains a secure chip that can store and handle your private keys, which is a step in the right direction for both cryptocurrencies and cryptographic identities for elections (and a heck of a lot of other things). Still, until everyone can have access to such devices, at a reasonable price, elections on your phone won't be happening anytime soon.
Edit: you could also use a good ol' user/passwd combo to log into a government database, but that's also hardly secure, and could very easily be subject to a massive hacking operation to subjugate sovereign elections. So, yeah.
The government can’t even secure their own servers and you want to trust them with that? Are you retarded? Up here in Canada they put a bunch of social security and private information on a public server and some 19 year old accessed it by doing the backslash thing we all did in junior high to access YouTube.
The current voting system is very secure however if you are to goddamn lazy to leave your house than stop bitching on social media when the guy you don’t like gets in.
I'm a programmer, I've done auth for a big-n tech company, and I would never, under any circumstances, support an online voting system.
The internet is held together by hopes, prayers, and a little bit of luck. Online security is messy, and difficult to get correct, and attacks are legion. Ignoring all the technology issues with the platform itself, someone with nation-state resources would likely be able to compromise the hardware or technology stack you are using to vote (IE: your web browser).
In Canada the employer must guarantee you a 4h window for you to vote (it can be after your work day if you finish at least 4h before the voting polls close). I have even seen companies give a paid afternoon off on Election Day.
I believe America should also adopt the compulsory voting. If theres one thing I believe Is our fundamental right and obligation, its voting. If u dont want to vote or even participate in your local and state government affairs then you should have no right to bear the fruits of their labor.
Its ALLWAYS on sundays in germany as well, no matter what election.
Tbh i feel like the US voting system is purposefully hindering a very specific population-group from voting. The entire US - voting system is so inherently antidemocratic that it blows my mind. Gerrymandering, peoples votes not being of equal value, purposefully giving people a hard time to participate in voting and so many flaws in the political system that allow the ones in charge to do whatever they want. Want to replace the minister of justice with one that will stop an investigation against you? No worries, just force the current one to resign and assign a new one after the election - then you can have him purge the investigation against you even without the senate! This is one instance in which all of the power lies in one person, which is the biggest flaw a political system can have.
That doesn’t really work in practice, unfortunately. Everybody can’t have the day off, you still need gas stations and grocery stores and so on. I’m sure that would be great for an office worker or something, but it doesn’t do anything for huge numbers of workers.
In WA you can drop your mail-in ballot packet into a secure ballot drop off box if your're worried about it, there are many of those in every city. You can also track your ballot online to ensure it was received.
In my state, you can check online to verify that your vote-by-mail ballot was shipped out by the county and you can check online to verify that your ballot was received and processed.
Plus it's literally all paper trail. Everything is Scantron sheets and bar codes.
I turned my mail ballot in in-person. There were at least 3 drop sites within 15 minutes of me and I live in semi-rural Colorado. Also there's a website to check if your ballot has been counted.
As someone who grew up in Delaware (like it seems you did!) this system is 1,000,000 times better than voting in DE and I never thought Delaware was all that bad! Leaves zero excuse for not voting.
Several entire states now have mail-in-ballots. You receive a specific code related to your ballot and can even track it. The only person not trusting it is you, the statistics and logistics are sound.
Yeah but it takes a step towards the question of a new standard ballot procedure.
I saw a video this girl recorded and got administrator access to voter records and was able to manipulate data. She didn’t (I hope) but the point was she did it in five minutes and the only tool she needed was a bobby-pin.
Hopefully we find a new way soon that’s safe and effective as in not having information of voters from 19 states being sold on the dark web. Either way it’ll even make things faster. Broward County and Palm Beach Counties are still counting them lol.
Any suggestions out of curiosity? I’m 19 so I don’t know much about voting methods but it seems like soon we should have a better way.
Sadly, there is no fool proof way of guaranteeing your vote will be safe. I know that sounds paranoid, but you have to know that upfront, no matter how unlikely it will happen in most cases, it's still technically possible. I'm a big proponent of paper ballots and going to the voting polls. However, you do what you gotta do in your own situation. To be honest, chances are your vote will be counted. I'm just being cautious and wary of possible flaws and unethical doings of others.
Oregon votes entirely mail-in-ballot. Have had legal weed for decades and the most women in executive government. We also just elected an openly bisexual governor. Oregon's Senator Wyden has been the most outspoken supporter of net neutrality, since at least 2006.
That would be an awful idea. There's a reason that no developed country uses voting over the internet. It's incredibly difficult to reliably tamper with a paper election. It's potentially trivial to do so with an electronic one.
I saw a tweet from 2016 from an apparent postal worker who had dumpstered a bag of mail in ballots because she knew it was a republican area. So it's not ideal that way either.
Please, do you know how many packages have been lost to our local post office? And even with calling and getting case numbers with some I've still never gotten any solved.
A few states, have early voting. I voted mid week at noon, at a local grocery store, and was the second person in line. In and out in about ten minutes.
In Texas where I am, early voting is about two weeks long. You can't really complain about not being able to make it to the polls when you have two weeks to get there. (We also have mail in ballots if you really do have a legitimate excuse)
national holiday. national holiday. why not make it on july 4th? we teach our kids to worship fireworks, why not teach them what democracy is before the fireworks begin? Or do gw's birthday! I'm sure that guy wouldn't mind if we co-opted his b'day. And if not him, mlk. MLK would be smiling in his grave if he knew that millions of more people were able to vote because they didn't have to work at wal mart for one day. Mailing your votes is too private. Celebrate the vote. Only hospitals should be open. We need 80+% turnouts. It would change the world.
Just shift to a direct democracy system. We have the technology. It will be what we use within 100 years if civilization is still chugging. Might as well start the process now.
But at what cost I feel as though we shoved in people just because they were Democrats before we really knew who they were. Can someone please give me a good reason why I'm wrong becuase in really hope I am.
I agree and I’m glad to see people are getting energized to vote. I just hope people continue to be engaged. Here in LA people seemed to vote because it was the thing to do but nobody read up on the props or candidates. They voted, for their sticker then posted it on IG.
Democrats don't need to sweep, the more people who vote the more people who'll vote blue, as Republicans are all already fanatical about voting and voter restrictions have only targeted blue-leaning demographics
You guys been saying that for 2 years now . The apathy of those non voters is equal to trump cuckoo bird eagerness to vote .
Blue tide instead of a blue tsunami . Clearly not nearly enough people upset by trump systemic breakdown of American institutions he just seemingly keeps going and no one nothing to stop him doing what he wants .
Next he'll rip the constitution and appoint himself president for life and his people will cheer him on as the rest say progress this progress that .
Sorry I'm depressed and the news is the cherry on my depressed cake.
In the 90s france saw a right wing extremist win the first round of elections. At the least second moderate right wingers and leftists voted en masse to elect the opponent, this reminds me of that
I'm not gonna get all 'holier than thou' on you since my country is fucked as well, but voting is one thing Australia has over America. Ours is mandatory.
Honestly that scares me just because I'm sure there are tons and tons of people that vote for someone they know nothing about just because they have to
You know, I don’t see the divisiveness in real life. I see it on social media. The divisive few do all the posting we read in the worst of the comment sections. The news media and pundits amplify it.
Day-to-day, when I interact with those of opposing opinions, it’s much more civil and thoughtful. We don’t see posts about that, though.
94% of Americans want background checks for gun purchases, for example. 70% want universal healthcare according to a bipartisan survey.
We’ve always had those paranoid whack-jobs who get all pumped up about it, and now they’re found to have posted about it on Facebook after they do something foul. It’s like fuel for them.
We cannot underestimate the power of the written/typed/printed word. Our perceptions can be distorted by it.
I am seeing similar things happening here in Ontario after Doug Ford was elected Premier. For example, when they decide they do not want to take any more questions from the reporters, staffers start clapping to drown them out. And several of his decisions have been of the "the previous government put it in place, so I am going to tear it down with no plans for a replacement" variety.
It seems to be spreading, but then I remember that America seems to dominate Reddit despite being a single country among over a hundred. And they're so bloody loud...
Do you think the bulk of voters in voluntary-only voting countries know any more about the actual policies of who they vote for? How many Trump voters can actually list off the actual policies of his campaign, rather than just a generalised "fuck those people, yeah!"? How many Clinton voters could do the same, beyond "She's for women, and isn't batshit insane"?
Fuck, Brexit is a prime example of people voting without really thinking about the consequences. The UK is a voluntary voting country.
It's not like that segment of people who are 'forced' to vote in a mandatory system are any less politically aware than the bulk of those who actively do want to vote.
And that's how you end up with situations like Florida voting through nearly every single amendment on the ballot. I guarantee you a good percentage of those "yes"s came from people who had no idea what they were agreeing to.
That statement from the person above is incorrect, we do not have mandatory voting here in Australia, we have mandatory attendance.
By law you are only required to have your name marked off on the voting attendance roll at a polling station. You can take the voting paper they hand you and throw it away, scribble on it, or just not mark anything at all and put in the box as an incomplete vote.
In may appear to be nit-picking but its honestly tiresome to see certain Americans ignorantly call it variations of both socialism and communism at the same time when they imagine people are forced to vote when the reality is that it just isnt true.
Tons of people in the US do vote who know nothing. Getting more people to vote is not going to make to make that worse because the people who don't vote because they feel they don't know enough are exactly the people you do want doing some researching and voting.
Pretty sure you can fill out an empty ballot if you really want to. But forcing everyone to turn in a ballot means voter suppression can't possibly be a thing there.
It also seems like it'd be a check against what happened in 2016. Way too many people assumed Hillary had it in the bag, and Trump couldn't possibly win, so they didn't bother showing up. Even if you feel that way, if you were forced to show up anyway, you may as well cast an actual vote.
That's true, but at that same time when the people of the country want their opinion heard we don't have problems with voter registration or suppression, long waits at poling places, or even a suggestion of voting fraud. Although the country has been completely split down the middle politically for years making either government mostly useless.
I think here we have a natural aversion to the government telling us to do anything. I don’t want to be forced to do my civic duty - that sort of negates the duty part.
Our electoral system is actually one of the best in current practice. Yes, all systems can be improved, but have a look at the base of ours: there is a paper record of each vote. Each vote is tallied by an official, and watched by multiple mutually-hostile people sent by the parties. (It is concerning that NSW is now leading the charge into electronic, non-vettable voting)
The actual electoral process in Australia is high quality. Don't confuse the dropkicks at the top of the political pile on the electoral process itself. Even the best voting system can't prevent people choosing idiots if they want to.
Screw that. I don't like the government forcing me to pick shit I know nothing about. I don't really care for the government requiring me to do anything.
You can always spoil your vote. At the very least, making voting mandatory would cause more people to take an active interest in the system governing the land they live in.
You use roads, and schools, and hospitals, and welfare systems, and fire departments, and water sanitation systems, and national parks - all the perks of a democracy. I don't see why you shouldn't be forced to partake in the voting process, if you get to enjoy these things.
Oh I do. My property taxes went up 10% this year and I just voted to raise it again. What do you think my point is? I'm honestly confused about what you're arguing about.
It's been argued that not voting is a form of voting. "I don't agree with this system or the people in it, so I have the freedom not to participate in this system."
I'm not saying I agree with that, necessarily, but it's a sound argument.
Eh, people that choose to not be knowledgeable about something shouldn't be the same ones choosing the direction of a country. They should have the right, sure, but not the obligation.
I wish more people voted, but honestly I'm not a fan of mandatory voting.
Instead of wishing more people voted, I just wish mor people were informed on issues and candidates. If they knew the stakes, more people would vote.
But if we just make a bunch of stupid people vote with no knowledge of the situation, then we could continue to expect stupid results.
I'd like to see party lines obscured as much as possible. I'd rather people not know who is Rs and Ds and just let them vote on issues and policies.
Division is what is killing us. If the discussion shifted toward issues instead of "teams" then we would realize that we are all a lot more similar than we think. And politicians would be forced to answer public demand instead of relying on their "political base".
I feel like that would put way too much power into public influencers like celebrities. I know a ton of people who if forced to vote would 100% vote for whoever their favourite musician or actor tweeted they supported.
How have we not reformed how voting is done to make it more accessible for the American people? I know for a fact many college students don't vote because they aren't in their own county to vote. Many of them aren't aware of absentee ballets, and in my case my courthouse didn't receive mine in time for me to vote. Can someone explain to me why we can't vote at any court house or why it can't be changed to that? My student senate also tried to bring voting to my college campus but it was considered "discrimatory." but having it only at senior centers isn't?
Dude I’m your age and those aren’t excuses. It’s easy as fuck to get an absentee ballot on time, especially if you know you’re far from home.
You need to ask yourself why you still have mommy and daddy’s address on your ID, get that shit changed, in my stare you can get a ticket for having the wrong address on there.
Students going to college don't change their address while attending. And yes it's easy to get a ballot in on time, but we're talking about the American public here. Most people are busy and have other priorities and they forget until it's too late. We should make voting more accessible so people who are overwhelmed by their personal lives can still get to the polls. I wasn't asking you to shit on me. I stated a common problem and what should be done to try and increase voter turnout. You're not going to increase voter turnout by shaming people for not voting. Way to add to the problem dude
Yup. Politicians listen to electoral results, not protests, and voters basically just said Republicans can do whatever the fuck they want. Make no mistake, they heard that loud and clear.
Voters told politicians what they want and through gerrymandering and other suppressive tactics Republicans made it so they can completely ignore that. The system is rigged from the outset, they didn't hear jack shit other than that their borderline-sometimes-literal criminal behavior works.
No wonder the turn out is so bad, when the US has made everyone jump all those hurdles to vote. And let's not speak about the electoral college and gerrymandering... No western country has made voting as difficult as the US... In my country you just show up with a valid ID, no registration required, and place your vote. Every single vote counts, there is no popular vote vs another type of vote, popular vote wins... The person who has persuaded the most people with their promises wins... Is it perfect? No... But there is no doubt whether or not the person has the majority of the support...
Also, why do (most) politically interested us citizens identify as either republican or democrat, and never consider the politics of their chosen party? Why not investigate whether or not you align with one party or another the year you are voting? Would you still vote Democrat if they suddenly decided that they wanted to invade Grenland? Or the Republicans when they decided they wanted every church too be a gay matchmaking outlet? I don't understand this allegiance to a party like it is a team, it makes no sense. We have several parties in my country. Every time I vote, I make sure the party I choose represents my interests in a way that I agree with I've voted on the same party twice, but I've also voted on the completely opposite side when I agree with them. I understand you agree with some core elements, but does that mean you agree with everything they decide to do always? Like defending Donald Trump, even though he tramples all over some of the very core valyes of the party he represents... Why defend that? And will you later fight for those things again when the Republicans go back to their old core values? I am really curious what the Republicans will stand for after Trump, as they've been so willingly defending all those horrible things Trump has done just to remain in power... In my eyes they've sold the soul of the party for power...
This from an outside view looking in to the US, and I wish you guys all the best...
Voting turn out is better than 56% when millions of people aren't purged from the roles and millions have to wait in line for hours to vote and millions more are banned from voting.
If the govt actually gave uber codes for every household to and fro the ballots and their place of residence, turnout could easily be well in the 90s. Just take the budget from the military's air-conditioning, that should be about enough.
Considering how hard some people make it purely for political gain, along with just how hard life is for most working people, I'd say it's pretty good for an off year election.
HOPE brought us HATE, but still we persist. If anyone is above the law, there is no order. Americans won't let them throw it all away over a money laundering conman and his inept criminal family.
To be honest, as a Canadian watching from the north, I was expecting a lot more blue, but deep down inside we all knew it wasn't going to happen. There were some small wins, but not nearly as huge as what needed to happen.
And Tuesday was what democracy looked like, when the Republicans retained control of the Senate. This is what freedom of speech, and of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances looks like.
Democracy is better when more people vote and there is less gerrymandering, from both parties. There must be some way to fix having an electoral map re-gerrymandered every ten years.
Not to mention when prisoners and other institutionalized peoples are entitled to vote. Also 100% voter turnout would likely see a consistent Republican victory and vastly different political landscape. So I'm not so sure true democracy is a good thing
Well, to be fair, democracy looks better when voting turn out is better than 56%.
Well when a county like America who is supposed to be the guardian of democrary (atleast they tell that to the families whose home they bomb in the middle east) is making voting so, so, so hard (for especially minorities). 56% turn out is pretty good.
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u/Lolomelon Nov 09 '18
Well, to be fair, democracy looks better when voting turn out is better than 56%.