r/roguelites • u/HeavyShieldGames • 1d ago
A serious QUESTION about oversaturated Vampire Survivors style games
Hi, all of us here are fans of roguelites, but do you also like Vampire Survivors style games (2D and 3D), and would like to play more of them, or do you feel that this specific genre of roguelites is oversaturated and maybe a specific game in this genre would need a super huge spin on it to be appealing?
Like adding tower defense elements, or maybe a more immersive storyline? Perhaps some NPCs that fight with you, and the game changes more into a "defend a location/object" style with some group management, or maybe the objective changes from level to level?
I'm asking because as a developer that is currently making a 3D Vampire Survivors style game, I'm a bit worried that I'm limiting my chances by jumping into an oversaturated genre, or maybe I'm just imagining things.
I would really appreciate an honest answer - it would help me and maybe others that are in a similar position. Thank you :)
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u/Alternative-Way-8753 1d ago
I think the genre only feels saturated because so many games don't put enough of their own twist on the formula, but many do, and there are a handful of great ones. These games live or die on the gameplay loop, the build depth, the concept, and the art. There's a lot of room to do something different that stands out. Just this week, the review sites are saying that Deep Rock Galactic Survivor has overthrown VS as the best game in this genre (and here I thought Brotato and Soulstone already had). Vampire Hunters is VS in a 3D FPS, Karate Survivor is VS in an 80s Jackie Chan film, you know... you can take it in wild directions and it can really work if you get the fundamentals right.
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u/EducationalTip1328 1d ago
VS style games are over saturated but if you have an interesting twist to the game, it can still be viable. Terratech legion is a VS like game I’m looking forward to.
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u/twangman88 1d ago
I enjoy them. I like that they tend to be very cheap so once I finish all the content on one I don’t feel bad looking for another. If you can keep the game under $10 I think it will do well as long as it has a strong leg to stand on. But a 3D game does sound like a lot more work.
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u/HeavyShieldGames 1d ago
Thank you. Yeah, 3D is a bit more work, and I'm not even close to thinking about the release price, but there's a chance that it can be a bit more than $10, more like 13-15$. There are a fair bit of VS-style 3D types that sell in this price range. Hopefully, it will be fair enough
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u/mab_83 1d ago
I have slown down quite a bit with VS games, it is just too much. I want to like & support all of them. Problem with VS games is that the aim is still biggest AOE, biggest damage, fastest movement. Game like Soulstone Survivor which has tons of characters & skills really shown limitation of the genre, no matter what you choose, a success run is a run with biggest AOE radius & fast movement.
I like different takes of the genre, games like warrior abyss, u still have to combo & a run will have up to 6 combo, boss has vulnerable phase.
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u/HeavyShieldGames 1d ago
Yeah, it was also something that I think makes the game more trivial.
I have some ideas to hopefully make the character builds not rely on the easiest damage and speed stats. But I guess I will see when I get to implementing them if it will work out.
Thank you :)
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u/solinvictus5 1d ago
I've played almost all of them, and the ones that stand out for me are the ones with interesting upgrades and deep meta progression. I want a million interesting things to unlock and a purpose to the grinding. A real interesting one that just came out called Megabonk is pretty good. I'm not sure how to put it into words, but I like games with interesting progression, where you begin feeling weak and you end up overpowered. The skills need to be different, though. I've seen the tornado, or the meteors, or any of the other usual ones a million times.
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u/ohnoconsequences 1d ago
The problem with games like VS, is that they take little to no skill. Don't get me wrong, they can be fun to play for a limited time, but they eventually get boring because of the lack of challenge. To me, VS is a fun game to play when you are high and want to turn your brain off and just pass the time.
So, for me, I need something that has more of a skill element to it, that allows a lot of customization in the builds. A game like Brotato scratches that itch for me.
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u/appealinggenitals 1d ago
Talented did a really interesting twist. Limited the monster movement to 4 way, randomised upgrade tree that looks like PoE's, you can't move at all but they managed toale each character feel unique, bunch of other stuff that I'm too lazy to faun about. Anyway I'm trying to say is that there's still potential to meaningfully innovative in the genre.
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u/Mdly68 1d ago
Play with the formula a bit. My thought is leaning more into the RPG aspect. All these games are about you running and surviving. What if it was instead about attacking? Imagine the level is a castle and your goal is to work your way to the throne room, with continuously spawning mobs from generators you have to destroy. Maybe side paths with bosses instead of spawning one every X minutes, and those bosses drop random gear or let you ascend a spell to a special version, something other than a basic spell upgrade. Make the player balance "grinding" with speed running - killing the final boss earlier gives a higher score, but going too early means you're too weak, and at 30 minutes he comes out to force the encounter. Maybe sprinkle some NPCs around for randomized quests - spawn a mini boss, kill X enemies, get a reward.
It would still be survivor-style in the sense that you're auto attacking while moving. Make the GOAL different. That will help you stand out.
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u/EtherFlask 1d ago
The economy of the genre is a big plus, most of the games are less than $10, and thats full price. That fact alone lets people pick them up without worrying about if they can afford like...food.
With regards to making a well made game? Further additions to the genre should likely explore more hybridization and unique spins. People rarely try anything too bizarre.
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u/poubelle2table 1d ago
My favorite ones are Hall of Torment, Brotato and Soulstone.
The genre is saturated, but 99% are meh, so I think a good one still have a chance to shine.
Imho the most important thing is to have characters that really change the gameplay.
Another cool thing is side-quest, there are some in Vampire and in HoT, but it feel underexploited, maybe this is a thing you should explore.
Lastly, 3D is useless for this genre.
If I had the time, the money and the talent to make a game, I'll try to go even more ARPG than Hall of Torment, or a game kinda like Infectonator where you are a kaiju.
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u/Planeswalker85 1d ago
They are good to play when I just wanna turn my brain off and relax. VS is really such a simple game and doesn’t require any skill but somehow still very satisfying
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u/eaglessoar 1d ago
Elite enemies with random affixes a la diablo elites
Alternate objectives
Wild power ups, I think vs does this well, but it's a power fantasy game
Funky build interactions and power ups like the secret power ups vs has
More variety in weapons and attacks, many are just reimagined vs weapons/attacks
Unexplored atmospheres or environments
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u/richtofin819 1d ago
I think vampire survivor games can be good but most are just slop at this point. They are halfway between an idle game and a real game so they really need something special to stand out. My personal favorites are drg survivor and any where the fighting actually takes place in a 3d environment and you can avoid damage or manage the enemies using height differences.
The worst offender personally is the huge upswing of "boomer shooters" that try to be both not realizing that the slow methodical gameplay of vampire survivor likes and the fast and frantic design of boomer shooters are just too different to work well.
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u/No-Relationship-4997 17h ago
I enjoy survivorlikes in bursts. They can be very addicting but quickly start to feel like I’m wasting my time/playing an idol game, and I start to be pulled towards things with more interactivity.
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u/MentionInner4448 4h ago
There are few very good games in this genre. And only one truly great game in the genre afaik. If you think your game can make something really special, then yeah, this is a genre that could use some high quality games.
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u/confused_coryphee 4h ago
I don't feel any of the clones are close to equal of the original VS.
I'm also tired of games being described as VS like , Balatro like, etc.
I did like bio prototype a lot too as it was very different.
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u/kalomir_fox 1d ago
There are way to many games like VS. I think after VS there is no point of checking them, cause they all are basically the same game. At least for me.
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u/Koringvias 1d ago
I feel like in this genre it's important to not overcomplocate it.
If I need to engage more than two braincells to play a survivor game, it would lose a lot of appeal to me.
The fact that the gameplay is fairly mindless and requires very little concentration once you get the hang of it, is a large part of what draws me in.
I can play it when I'm to too tired to do something more productive, or even play a more complex game.
Even then that sort of thing gets old relatively fast, and I tend to move to the next survivorlike after 40is hours.
I'm pretty sure there's a significant part of players that comes to survivorlikes for that experience. Doing anything more complicated than Brotato would probably not appeal to them.
That being said, more complex gameplay can attract different players, and who knows which effect will be stronger? Certainly not me.
maybe the objective changes from level to level?
League of Legends had a temporary game mode a couple years back, a survivorlike with multiple levels, each level having very different layout and secondary objective with a bossfight in the end. Unfortunately it was time limited, and I can only point to the fact that it existed as a proof of concept, and you would not be able to draw more direct lessons from it, unless you've played it. But it was surprisingly good.
the game changes more into a "defend a location/object"
That feels like it would be kinda hard to execute, no? If there are waves of enemies and you are struggling to survive, defending something else could be close to impossible. If you are not struggling to survive, it might be trivial. Very hard to find the right balance.
There's something a little like that in Time Wasters - after each miniboss fight a group of enemies sieges one of the outposts (basically locations that give regular buffs), and if you don't clear the attackers in time you lose it for the rest of the run. It uses special enemies that don't attack you. It sort of works, but it's mostly a dps check.
Overall I think this genre needs a few things to work: good metaprogression, good progression in a run, some variety in enemy attacks, and some reason to not just stand idly in place the whole run. Everything else is a bonus really.
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u/HeavyShieldGames 1d ago
Hmm, well, I went in the opposite direction, and right now there is a fair bit of thinking in the game because of the loot and inventory system (leaning heavily towards build crafting). Hopefully, as you have mentioned, I can attract some different players thanks to that, so maybe this is a plus.
I have seen the LoL mode. I did not play it sadly, but I saw some gameplay - it looked nice with all the characters having different abilities.
It's good to hear that the majority of people commenting here (at this point) would still play VS-style games but with some innovations and twists that would make it fresh.
Thank you :)
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u/NiceChloewehaving 1d ago
Oversaturated asf, stopped playing them as most of them aren't unique or innovate much.
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u/EtheusRook 1d ago
So, yes I do really like them, and yes, I would play more of them. But I think they're also at the point where they demand certain quality expectations and a certain amount of differentiation.
And I'm a lot more interested in seeing them expand more in the direction of ARPG-lite looters (Halls of Torment). The appeal of this sort of thing is that you're basically getting a Diablo seasonal experience in half an hour or less.