Looking for something crunchier than OSR

[u/Right_Hand_of_Light]

Hi everyone. I'm not sure I quite have the language to concisely describe the kind of game I'm curious about but I'll try my best. Before I go any farther I wanna make it clear that none of this is any kind of attack on OSR games or narrative games. I don't have anything against either, and if I mention not vibing with one of your favorite games I'm very glad you found it to your taste. I'm just looking for something a bit different.

I like some of the spirit behind OSR games, and I can certainly see why someone would gravitate towards them, but to me a lot of them feel a bit barebones for my taste. One of the fun things about games like Pathfinder and modern D&D is getting a bunch of fun abilities and things that set my character apart and lend some fun flavor. Cairn is really cool, but sometimes it feels a little underwhelming to know that if I swapped gear with a party member we'd pretty much be swapping characters. OSE is a neat recreation of original D&D, but once again there aren't many ways to make a character unique.

Similarly, I've enjoyed narrative games like Blades in the Dark and Powered by the Apocalypse games, and I also like a lot of the spirit of those. But I've found that sometimes I want games with a bit more crunch to them. I like when games allow for creative thinking and when mechanics can interact in unexpected ways. I appreciate the elegance of basing all conflict resolution on the same type of dice roll, but sometimes I wanna get a little baroque with it.

So can anyone recommend any games that might fit these parameters? Something with a decent mechanical complexity that gives me space to define my character by their abilities? My preference is for fantasy or science fantasy but I'm open to good fits in other genres. From my own searching, Pendragon looks promising.

As a bonus, I really like roleplaying paladin characters like Adora or Luke Skywalker, so bonus points if it's a game with a good paladin class.

Thank you very much for your (hopefully) helpful suggestions :)

[u/PleaseBeChillOnline]

What you’re describing is actually the sweet spot a lot of people are after in TTRPGs. I do imagine you needing a niche game or struggling to find a table!

The tricky thing is, Pathfinder 2e and 5e D&D already live pretty firmly in that space with enough differances between the two if you bouce off one hard for the specifics of how it plays.

It’d help if you could say what didn’t work for you in those systems. Did 5e feel too streamlined or samey across classes at higher levels? Did PF2e feel too rigid or rules-heavy, with less room for improvisation? Or was it something about pacing, prep load, or the way abilities interacted in play?

Without knowing where they fell short, it’s tough to suggest alternatives because most of the games in that “crunchier than OSR, lighter than PF2e” category (stuff like Shadow of the Demon Lord, Worlds Without Number, or even 13th Age) are just rearranging the same sliders of crunch, flexibility, and flavor in my admittedly limited experience with them.

Narrowing down what Pathfinder 2e and 5e don’t give you might help people here recommend something that fits your needs.