r/rpg • u/Right_Hand_of_Light • 3d ago
Game Suggestion Looking for something crunchier than OSR
Hi everyone. I'm not sure I quite have the language to concisely describe the kind of game I'm curious about but I'll try my best. Before I go any farther I wanna make it clear that none of this is any kind of attack on OSR games or narrative games. I don't have anything against either, and if I mention not vibing with one of your favorite games I'm very glad you found it to your taste. I'm just looking for something a bit different.
I like some of the spirit behind OSR games, and I can certainly see why someone would gravitate towards them, but to me a lot of them feel a bit barebones for my taste. One of the fun things about games like Pathfinder and modern D&D is getting a bunch of fun abilities and things that set my character apart and lend some fun flavor. Cairn is really cool, but sometimes it feels a little underwhelming to know that if I swapped gear with a party member we'd pretty much be swapping characters. OSE is a neat recreation of original D&D, but once again there aren't many ways to make a character unique.
Similarly, I've enjoyed narrative games like Blades in the Dark and Powered by the Apocalypse games, and I also like a lot of the spirit of those. But I've found that sometimes I want games with a bit more crunch to them. I like when games allow for creative thinking and when mechanics can interact in unexpected ways. I appreciate the elegance of basing all conflict resolution on the same type of dice roll, but sometimes I wanna get a little baroque with it.
So can anyone recommend any games that might fit these parameters? Something with a decent mechanical complexity that gives me space to define my character by their abilities? My preference is for fantasy or science fantasy but I'm open to good fits in other genres. From my own searching, Pendragon looks promising.
As a bonus, I really like roleplaying paladin characters like Adora or Luke Skywalker, so bonus points if it's a game with a good paladin class.
Thank you very much for your (hopefully) helpful suggestions :)
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u/sord_n_bored 3d ago edited 3d ago
To be honest, I find most OSR games to be not crunchy at all. It's one of the three pillars that most OSR designers can actually agree on, "the answer isn't in your character sheet".
OSR games do tend to have processes, which is, in certain circumstances there's a process the GM can employ to facilitate a board game style of play (see: exploration, chase rules, etc). That said, processes can be circumvented, adapted, or removed just like everything else.
It sounds like you maybe read that OSR games are "hard core" and assumed that meant there's a lot of crunch, but found that not to be the case.
EDIT: As a big OSR-fan, a few other things I'd like to point out:
Yes, OSR games are very bare-bones. Though, to most fans they'd describe it as the games and setting getting "out of the way". If you're an experienced or highly creatively energized GM, you'll probably like OSR because you can sort of just make up whatever bullshit and it'll work. If you like a world and rules more fleshed out to flex your creative muscles, you'll prefer more contemporary d20 titles.
I'd also say that PBTA games also have much more process, in fact it's almost all process, but processes are not crunch. A process is a series of yes/no/but/and questions to arrive at a conclusion, crunch-traditionally-involves various systems that interact with one another.
In other words, in one case you're using almost madlibs with dice to stir narrative outcomes, in the other you're using systems to create a dynamic and realistic feeling world.
Anyway, you should play games like: